I posted this elsewhere over the past month and, while BE fans generally don't think it will fly, there have been a number of gracious comments made about it. MWC fans have not been nearly as gracious in their assessment of it.

There are only two available schools in the country that can be added to the BE that will help them to retain their autobid and if they don't add those two schools then, in my opinion, they will soon lose that autobid. Can you name the two schools?

Give up? Then click here: <a href='http://surpluslines.com/planbee.pdf' target='_blank'>http://surpluslines.com/planbee.pdf</a>

Yoda out...

Bad idea and last year we were ranked ironically the 4th best conference in the country and that was without BC as they were counted in to the ACC and w/o UM or Va Tech.

Ranked how and by whom?

Do you have a link to that ranking?

Yoda out...

I know this is all completely hypothetical, so if you wanna go that route, why not really damage the MWC and invite Utah and BYU along with Fresno, Boise, and a couple of others into a BCS conference.

In fact, I remember reading some guy's idea a while back about having a 'west' division out there and having our east division here and creating a 12-team BCS conference that way.

I suppose crazier things have happened in this world.

this is a bad idea....Our goal right now should be an all sports league period...no more football onlys, no more bball onlys...

-- Yoda...I know you have been pushing this idea....if this plan game to pass what would happen to Fresno St and Boise Sts other sports? Obviously they would immediatly be kicked out of there current conferences if they took there football somewhere else


Jackson

Murph1 Wrote:I know this is all completely hypothetical, so if you wanna go that route, why not really damage the MWC and invite Utah and BYU along with Fresno, Boise,&nbsp; and a couple of others into a BCS conference.

Personally, I don't think that BYU and Utah would come at this time. They're the leaders of their conference and others have followed them out of the WAC and into a CSTV contract. As long as Fresno and Boise are available, they think they can pass you -- so why join you?

However, I think if Fresno and Boise were to have already been added to the Big East -- so that the MWC had no real expansion options of their own -- and if the Big East were invite applications from all MWC schools, then you might have a shot at it. It would have to be presented as a choice between being in a BCS conference and being left behind in an MWC 7 that had no viable expansion options.

Further, I wonder if BYU and Utah would be the best choices. Maybe Utah and San Diego State would be better. BYU has the stronger program and reputation but San Diego State is in a top television market and might bring the Holiday Bowl. You wouldn't have to worry about avoiding Sunday play, you'd pick up a top 30 television market and the MWC would be left with no schools in their principal recruiting state of California.

That said, you wouldn't need any other schools beyond the four -- your six school western division would be Fresno, Boise, Utah, BYU or San Diego State, Louisville and Cincinnati. Note that that is an awfully expensive division to operate -- particularly from the standpoint of the "non-revenue" sports. For that reason, I think that would ve a very tough sell to make.

Yoda out...

Jackson1011 Wrote:Yoda...I know you have been pushing this idea....if this plan game to pass what would happen to Fresno St and Boise Sts other sports? Obviously they would immediatly be kicked out of there current conferences if they took there football somewhere else

That's addressed in the plan, so I assume that you haven't read it. I'd encourage you to read it before judging it a bad idea.

Fresno and Boise would move their non-football programs to the Big West. One of the reasons that I like this plan is that the Big West is superior to the MWC in baseball and softball -- two sports that are of great interest to Fresno State in particular. The cost savings on travel would be incredible -- instead of flying the golf, etc. team to Louisana, we bus them to Los Angeles.

Yoda out...

Yoda Wrote:

Murph1 Wrote:I know this is all completely hypothetical, so if you wanna go that route, why not really damage the MWC and invite Utah and BYU along with Fresno, Boise,  and a couple of others into a BCS conference.

Personally, I don't think that BYU and Utah would come at this time. They're the leaders of their conference and others have followed them out of the WAC and into a CSTV contract. As long as Fresno and Boise are available, they think they can pass you -- so why join you?

Because Big East = BCS conference, which = much more $$$ than MWC.

There aren't many non-BCS teams that would turn down an offer to join a BCS conference, sans Notre Dame and the military academies. Obviously, geography would be an issue, but if we're talking about a whole west division out that way...

First all, if you wrote all that. Congrats, as it sure must of took alot of time and research.

Now as for the debate of MWC vs. BE. Outside of Utah.....the MWC is weak. If they add Fresno State and Boise State. Good for them. Boise wont have 11 win seasons playing in a tougher division, same as Fresno State.

Lets compare the current Big East against the Future MWC with Fresno and Boise. Going top to bottom, of how teams are believed to be right now


MWC

1. Utah -- No more Alex Smith, No more Urban Meyer...lets see them do it again before we declare them better than BE best.
2. BOISE STATE -- Insane Passing Offense, much like TTU, always a threat with that scheme. Good talent
3. FRESNO STATE -- Good overall program. Skills at needed positions. Very good QB with Pinegar.
4. Colorado State -- Usual top MWC team, few rough years. Should be better this year with Holland having more experience.
5. TCU -- ALot of talent returning. Always competitive, should be good MWC team.
6. BYU -- New coaching staff, new hope. Good recruiting class each year should be competitive.
7. San Diego State -- Young program last year, should be better this year. Middle of the road MWC team.
8. Wyoming -- Starting to come around. Very talented offense, Defense lost a few SR's, returns a good amount though. Middle MWC.
9. New Mexico -- Uber talented RB in Moore and Ferguson. Good defense, looses some key players. Middle MWC team.
10. Air Force -- Usually tough team. Going to have a few rough years, with more tough games to play. who knows, always .500+
11. UNLV -- Talented team. Just cant seem to get it together. Lost QB Nantkes, WR Johnson. Cellar of MWC.

BE

1. Louisville - Great team, program moving up. Top young QB in Brohm, RB in Bush...Tough Defense, could be close to another 10+ win
2. Pittsburgh - Top team last season. Good QB in Palko, RB in Walker, WR in Lee. Very good Defense, most return. poss. 9+ win team
3. West Virginia - Always competitive team. Great running game, and tough defense. New QB and WR's. Running and D will get 8+
4. Syracuse - New coaches, new hope. Good running game, young QB's need to step up. Tough road sched. Good D and RB will get 7
5. Rutgers - Most talented RU team in years. If consistant, Offense alone could get them close to 8 wins, inconsistant, expect 6 or 7
6. Cincy - Lost Alot of there starters on both sides of ball. Recruiting has been solid, transition year, expect anywhere from 4-7 wins
7. Uconn - No Orlovsky. Caulley and Brockington are studs. Good WR's, talented D, good coaching. WIth some luck 6+ wins is poss.
8. USF -- Possibly best RB in league with Hall. QB needs to step up (lot of talent recruits). Young program, give em a few years. 3-5

Now. It seems like the MWC has better teams. But not really. Your juding the MWC on three teams that have had success in lower conferences. Boise state, is on an all time high right now. Fresno State is coming down off of the first overall pick in David Carr. TCU has been succesful in quite a few leagues now. The Big East is replacing Miami, VT and BC. It wouldnt matter who we replaced them with, its still a tough loss. Louisville is a GREAT addition to the BE right away. They are better than Boise State, Fresno and TCU. Cincy is coming off a Bowl Victory, and just because they had a few down years everyone is overlooking them. USF is in the middle of a recruiting hotbed and in a few years could be an outstanding program.

right now id say we can beat every member of the MWC starting at the top.

Louisville could beat Utah. - THis year definitley, last year...wish it wouldve happened Smith vs Lefors and Brohm. UL wouldve won.
Pitt could beat Boise state. - Itd be very tough, but Pitt can do it, if they can get to Zabransky. BSU offense is very tough.
WVU can beat Fresno state. - Fresno is a good team. Nothing better nothing worse. Our D could stop them. they cant stop our RB's.
Syracuse can beat Colorado State - pretty similar teams. Inconsistant QB play. Syracuse wins with more talent and Defense.
Rutgers is about even with TCU right now. Previous would give TCU advantage. I think if they played this year Rutgers wins.
Cincy can beat BYU - Tough game, real tough game but Cincy has alot of talent, just need experience. New QB will hurt but BYU is not even close to unbeatable
UConn can take SDSU - Uconn is growing very quickly into a good football program. Caulley and brockington eat up SDSU after losing almost all of there top Defensive players.
USF can beat Wyoming. - As much as i like to see Wyoming starting to get back to where they once were as a program, i think USF has more talent. Talent wins games. USF CAN beat Wyoming.

Im not saying that would happen. But every BE team is talented enough to beat Every MWC team, if you dont think so, you are underestimating our conference big time.

Its very easy to jump on the MWC bandwagon now that they can get Boise and Fresno state. Lets see what our new additions do before we declare the MWC superior. Utah beating Pitt last year proves one thing. Urban Meyer is a mastermind. He did it with Josh Harris, he had Alex Smith there. Florida is gonna be nasty this year.

Pitt would kill Utah this year with no Smith and Meyer. Utah had there all time greatest QB and coach together at once. They will come down to earth hard this year.

That is crazy having Fresno State and Boise State in the Big East. Travel costs would just kill the conference and those two schools wouldn't travel well at all for the fans. Boise State and Fresno State are western school. Fresno's academics are sub-par. Fresno State and Boise are good but not great teams. Just like BGSU and Toledo. Big deal you beat Washington and UCLA. That 's not that impressive folks. The Big East should focus on the Service academies Army and NAVY plus Buffalo and Memphis. I would think that West Virgina or Pittsburgh would jump to the Big Ten. Notre Dame will always be indy in football.

Yoda Wrote:I posted this elsewhere over the past month and, while BE fans generally don't think it will fly, there have been a number of gracious comments made about it.  MWC fans have not been nearly as gracious in their assessment of it.

There are only two available schools in the country that can be added to the BE that will help them to retain their autobid and if they don't add those two schools then, in my opinion, they will soon lose that autobid.  Can you name the two schools?

Give up?  Then click here:  <a href='http://surpluslines.com/planbee.pdf' target='_blank'>http://surpluslines.com/planbee.pdf</a>

Yoda out...

This plan is based on a premise the Big East is unworthy of BCS. And if we accept this plan then we acknowledge the premise is true. In an updated guideline, BCS worthiness of overall conference ranking, the Big East is a 5th in overall conference ranking with 2005 teams makeup. The most importance ranking is the BCS ranking. The computer rankings worth 1/3 of BCS and Sagarin ranking worth 1/6 of computer ranking with an overall worth of just 1/18 of BCS ranking. NEVER forget it’s the BCS ranking determine BCS worthiness not Sagarin ranking. The foundation of the argument is insulting and show ignorance of BCS. :mad:

OUBOBCATJOHN Wrote:That is crazy having Fresno State and Boise State in the Big East. Travel costs would just kill the conference and those two schools wouldn't travel well at all for the fans. Boise State and Fresno State are western school. Fresno's academics are sub-par. Fresno State and Boise are good but not great teams. Just like BGSU and Toledo. Big deal you beat Washington and UCLA. That 's not that impressive folks. The Big East should focus on the Service academies Army and NAVY plus Buffalo and Memphis. I would think that West Virgina or Pittsburgh would jump to the Big Ten. Notre Dame will always be indy in football.

Again, please read it before you criticize it.

This is a football only scenario. "...kill the conference" due to travel costs? Not hardly. Each school would make one trip west each year -- instead of making one trip to (say) UCF. The added cost is minimal compared to the cost of losing an autobid. Further, it would be more than offset by the added television inventory and a new time slot that the Big East would add. Rather than kill the conference, it would make money for the conference.

Fresno's "sub-par" academics? Quoting from the plan: "Fresno State’s football team, which stopped taking non-qualifiers two or three years ago, scored a 939 on the recently published NCAA Division I Academic Progress Rate Compilation Report. The school ranked first among the 2005 WAC institutions, twelfth among teams that finished ranked in the USA Today/ESPN Coaches' Poll and fourth among all NCAA Division I-A football programs in the Western United States. Only one Pac-10 institution, Stanford, had a higher APR than Fresno State."

Sure, some of our wins have been against schools that had big names but sub-par seasons. But by no means all. Our last game, we beat a ranked UVA -- third place finisher in the ACC that you all hate so much. We beat Colorado, at Colorado, the year that they were Big XII North champions. How many wins does Army and Navy have against BCS competion in the same time period.

Yoda out...

SO#1 Wrote:The foundation of the argument is insulting and show ignorance of BCS. :mad:

Perhaps, but I don't think the conference found it to be either insulting or ignorant. At least two schools thought enough of it to put it on their Athletic Department meeting agendas. Surely you will agree that that isn't the usual treatment afforded insulting and ignorant correspondence.

Yoda out...

Surely you will agree that that isn't the usual treatment afforded insulting and ignorant correspondence.


You don’t think it’s insulting to say to a BCS conference you lose your BCS auto bid if you don’t take us.

SO#1 Wrote:Surely you will agree that that isn't the usual treatment afforded insulting and ignorant correspondence.


You don’t think it’s insulting to say to a BCS conference you lose your BCS auto bid if you don’t take us.

Well I certainly don't mean it to be insulting, how's that?

Is it insulting to tell a driver that he's drifted onto the wrong side of the road and into oncoming traffic? Kind of the same thing -- you could call it insulting to point out one's driving deficiencies or you could call it a warning that might be much appreciated later. Take your pick.

Understand, I'm not ridiculing the Big East -- I'm merely pointing at what is obvious to most -- that the conference will have considerable difficulty meeting the new BCS autobid criteria. So too, I'm offering what I believe to be the best solution to those problems. Constructive comments are not generally considered insulting.

Yoda out...

Yoda Wrote:

SO#1 Wrote:Surely you will agree that that isn't the usual treatment afforded insulting and ignorant correspondence.


You don’t think it’s insulting to say to a BCS conference you lose your BCS auto bid if you don’t take us.

Well I certainly don't mean it to be insulting, how's that?

Is it insulting to tell a driver that he's drifted onto the wrong side of the road and into oncoming traffic? Kind of the same thing -- you could call it insulting to point out one's driving deficiencies or you could call it a warning that might be much appreciated later. Take your pick.

Understand, I'm not ridiculing the Big East -- I'm merely pointing at what is obvious to most -- that the conference will have considerable difficulty meeting the new BCS autobid criteria. So too, I'm offering what I believe to be the best solution to those problems. Constructive comments are not generally considered insulting.

Yoda out...

Not really, the Big East as of right now is 4th in overall conference strength in regards to the Sagrain Elo Cless straight arithmatic ratings.

The Big East had 2 of it 8 schools in the Final BCS Top 25.

And the highest ranking schools was Louisville at 10.

That is better marks in those 3 categories then the Big 10. We will be just fine as long as we continue to play to our ability.

Yoda Wrote:

SO#1 Wrote:Surely you will agree that that isn't the usual treatment afforded insulting and ignorant correspondence.


You don’t think it’s insulting to say to a BCS conference you lose your BCS auto bid if you don’t take us.

Well I certainly don't mean it to be insulting, how's that?

Is it insulting to tell a driver that he's drifted onto the wrong side of the road and into oncoming traffic? Kind of the same thing -- you could call it insulting to point out one's driving deficiencies or you could call it a warning that might be much appreciated later. Take your pick.

Understand, I'm not ridiculing the Big East -- I'm merely pointing at what is obvious to most -- that the conference will have considerable difficulty meeting the new BCS autobid criteria. So too, I'm offering what I believe to be the best solution to those problems. Constructive comments are not generally considered insulting.

Yoda out...

Let me repeat again, do you really understand the new BCS auto bid criteria? Have you got chance to see BCS conferences ranking?


Conference----------- Highest Ranking----- BCS------- Average---Top 25----%
ACC (12)-------------- VT (10-2)------------------ 8 ----------- 38.58 ------- 4 ------- 33%
B12-------------------- Oklahoma (12-0)-------- 2 ----------- 39.58 ------- 5 ------- 42%
PAC-10---------------- USC (12-0)--------------- 1 ----------- 43.90 ------- 3 ------- 30%
SEC-------------------- Auburn (12-0) ---------- 3 ----------- 46.75 ------- 5 ------- 42%
BE (8)----------------- Louisville (10-1) -------- 10 --------- 48.90 ------- 2 ------- 25%
B10 (11)-------------- Iowa (9-2) --------------- 12 --------- 49.64 -------- 4 ------- 36%
MWC (9)-------------- Utah (11-0) -------------- 6 ----------- 61.67 -------- 1 ------- 11%
WAC (9)-------------- Boise State (11-0) ------ 9 ----------- 71.78 -------- 1 ------- 11%
C-USA (12) ---------- UTEP (8-3) ---------------- 31 --------- 80.45 --------- 0 ------- 0%
Sun-Belt (8)---------- North Texas (7-4) ------- 55 -------- 82.83 --------- 0 ------- 0%
MAC (12) ------------- Toledo (9-3) --------- ---- 51 --------- 93.58 --------- 0 ------- 0%

SO#1 Wrote:

Yoda Wrote:

SO#1 Wrote:Surely you will agree that that isn't the usual treatment afforded insulting and ignorant correspondence.


You don’t think it’s insulting to say to a BCS conference you lose your BCS auto bid if you don’t take us.

Well I certainly don't mean it to be insulting, how's that?

Is it insulting to tell a driver that he's drifted onto the wrong side of the road and into oncoming traffic? Kind of the same thing -- you could call it insulting to point out one's driving deficiencies or you could call it a warning that might be much appreciated later. Take your pick.

Understand, I'm not ridiculing the Big East -- I'm merely pointing at what is obvious to most -- that the conference will have considerable difficulty meeting the new BCS autobid criteria. So too, I'm offering what I believe to be the best solution to those problems. Constructive comments are not generally considered insulting.

Yoda out...

Let me repeat again, do you really understand the new BCS auto bid criteria? Have you got chance to see BCS conferences ranking?


Conference----------- Highest Ranking----- BCS------- Average---Top 25----%
ACC (12)-------------- VT (10-2)------------------ 8 ----------- 38.58 ------- 4 ------- 33%
B12-------------------- Oklahoma (12-0)-------- 2 ----------- 39.58 ------- 5 ------- 42%
PAC-10---------------- USC (12-0)--------------- 1 ----------- 43.90 ------- 3 ------- 30%
SEC-------------------- Auburn (12-0) ---------- 3 ----------- 46.75 ------- 5 ------- 42%
BE (8)----------------- Louisville (10-1) -------- 10 --------- 48.90 ------- 2 ------- 25%
B10 (11)-------------- Iowa (9-2) --------------- 12 --------- 49.64 -------- 4 ------- 36%
MWC (9)-------------- Utah (11-0) -------------- 6 ----------- 61.67 -------- 1 ------- 11%
WAC (9)-------------- Boise State (11-0) ------ 9 ----------- 71.78 -------- 1 ------- 11%
C-USA (12) ---------- UTEP (8-3) ---------------- 31 --------- 80.45 --------- 0 ------- 0%
Sun-Belt (8)---------- North Texas (7-4) ------- 55 -------- 82.83 --------- 0 ------- 0%
MAC (12) ------------- Toledo (9-3) --------- ---- 51 --------- 93.58 --------- 0 ------- 0%

I don't understand those BCS rankings. Is Toledo considered the highest for the MAC because we won the MAC? The reason I ask is because Bowling Green and Northern Illinois were both in the Top 30 in the BCS standings..........much higher than Toledo...........even though Toledo beat them both. It was our OOC losses that killed us in the BCS rankings.

SO#1 Wrote:Let me repeat again, do you really understand the new BCS auto bid criteria? Have you got chance to see BCS conferences ranking?

Do I understand the BCS autobid criteria? I think so. I quoted from the original (unpublished) BCS document in the writing plan and, based upon that quote and your criteria above, the Big East would not qualify on the basis of last seasons performance (granted, last season was the first of four used in the first mature calculation).

The criteria state that your conference must be, "over the four-year evaluation period, among the top six Conferences in both Average Ranking of Highest-Rated Team and Average Conference Ranking". As you know, the Big East finished seventh in the Highest-Rated Team calculation as Utah (MWC) and Boise State (WAC) finished above Louisville.

That said, I haven't seen the conference rankings that you posted. I will say that they are considerably different than the conference rankings at Jerry Palm's collegebcs.com. Although I haven't taken the trouble to recalculate his figures using 2005 conference memberships, based on a quick eyeballing of his material the ratings still wouldn't come close to your rankings. Would you please point me to your original source? Thanks in advance...

Yoda out...

The best way to maintain the Big East's automatic bid is to strengthen ourselves from the INSIDE, not going running around looking for something outside. Louisville, Pitt and West Virginia have shown they can dance on the national scene and Pitt and West Virginia are close to breaking through. Syracuse has a reputation for doing so, and UConn and UC have been bowl team and consistent 7 to 8 win programs and South Florida has been a consistent winner save for last years down year. Heck, even Rutgers was a few bounces of the ball away last year from being a bowl team.