member to the big east. i don't understand why schools like memphis and ecu are being considered. Marshall Univ. can add to their stadium and they have more football tradition than any team left in america. i would like MU to be the 9th member. I know Yoda mentioned Utah and Boise St....but that is just absolutely unrealistic.

I mean if the new big east needed to go to 12 teams their is no way in hell that Marshall Univ. would not be included. As a matter fact, i just feel that the big east should have invited marshall u at least as a football member only with intentions of becoming full members when the new big east split. out of the remaining east coast schools marshall univ. is the best. and if i had to compare them against some of the schools currently in the big east they are certainly as good if not better.


what do you guys think??

It doesn't make sense to add Marshall as a 9th member with West Virginia in the conference. If you were expanding to 10 or 12 teams it makes sense. Adding them as a 9th member doesn't make sense.

Agree, that do not add any more TV market!

Quote:Marshall Univ. can add to their stadium and they have more football tradition than any team left in america.

They have sold out their 38k stadium a grand total of zero times, so I guess you could make the same argument for East Carolina or Memphis or whoever.

And they have been playing 1-A football in the modern era for what... a little under a decade? Admittedly in that time they have had more success than Memphis or ECU, but I would hardly say they have the most football tradition of any (I assume you mean mid-major) team left in America.

jtwvu87 Wrote:member to the big east.  i don't understand why schools like memphis and ecu are being considered.  Marshall Univ. can add to their stadium and they have more football tradition than any team left in america.  i would like MU to be the 9th member.  I know Yoda mentioned Utah and Boise St....but that is just absolutely unrealistic.

Sheesh! Hold on there. I mentioned Fresno State and Boise State. Don't leave my alma mater out of the discussion in favor of a bunch of durn Utahans. We're waaaaaay better than they are -- 2004 being the exception. I won't concede the "absolutely unrealistic" claim either -- so long as we are talking football only.

But on to your post...

Marshall confuses me a little. If you look at Marshall, circa 2001, they had a very strong program. But currently, they suck.

Their Sagarins have been in a freefall.

2001 -- 79.09
2002 -- 74.01
2003 -- 72.70
2004 -- 62.67

So what the heck is going on? Attendance has stayed steady throughout -- 26,000 to 28,000 -- which is a good sign. But what happened to the on field performance and when (and why) will it improve?

Gotta answer that one before you can decide whther or not they would be a valuable addition...

Yoda out...

I vote for: Villanova to uprgrade to Div 1a for the ninth member. Has Big East membership already and would not have to wait five years to get accepted. Could be a strong member with immediate rivalry games.

I will take ECU as # 10. I think there is a good shot they could "own" the Carolinas. Adds a nice TV market and recruitng ground. Fan base is extremelly loyal and desires Big East membership.

Memphis slides in at #11. Loyal, but divided fan base, decent football and basketball. A new AD could do wonders here.

My current #12 is Southern Miss. This conference needs a basketball patsie that has a strong football team and they fiot the bill. Also, they provide a great tradition and open more Southern recruiting grounds so we can go head to head against the SEC for more recruits.

Yuleofell Wrote:I vote for: Villanova to uprgrade to Div 1a for the ninth member. Has Big East membership already and would not have to wait five years to get accepted. Could be a strong member with immediate rivalry games.

I will take ECU as # 10. I think there is a good shot they could "own" the Carolinas. Adds a nice TV market and recruitng ground. Fan base is extremelly loyal and desires Big East membership.

Memphis slides in at #11. Loyal, but divided fan base, decent football and basketball. A new AD could do wonders here.

My current #12 is Southern Miss. This conference needs a basketball patsie that has a strong football team and they fiot the bill. Also, they provide a great tradition and open more Southern recruiting grounds so we can go head to head against the SEC for more recruits.

I agree on Villanova being the 9th however that closes the possibility on Temple permanently. Not that big of a deal but some of us have tradition with Temple that we'd prefer to keep. Also they may not want to split since their history is much more with the non-FB schools than with the FB schools. ECU is good in baseball and would likely step up quickly in Football but they're another in need of building/rebuilding we have enough of those with Rutgers, Cincy, USF, and Connecticut. They're basketball also isn't very good. Memphis is good in Football and great in Basketball and adds instantly to conference rep on both sides. Southern Miss isn't compatible with the Big East for any number of reasons.

If we go to 9 and I feel that we should its by adding Memphis. After that we only add members if they're going to add money, respect, and good competition to the conference, then again Memphis would add those things by joining. Tradition with existing members would also be a big considering point. (IE If Penn State ever got booted or left the Big Ten and then decided to join the Big East even though right now they aren't that amazing a program they would add money, respect, and a traditional opponent for UC, RU, SU, Pitt, WVU) And again Memphis has tradition with UL and UC and to a lesser extent USF.

I would like to offer an objective analysis of Marshall as a ninth school.

1. REPUTATION: They have a pretty good rep, but are probably overrated. They have only beaten one 1a bcs school in the last five years.

2. ACADEMICS: This is a minor point to me, but I don't think they're recognized as a national university.

3. ATTENDANCE: Their stadium holds 38,000. I truly believe every major school should have a stadium that holds 50,000 and be able to average above 40,000. Marshall's average attendance in 2004 was 82nd, behind MEMPHIS, ARMY, NAVY, ECU, and S MISS. While attendance doesn't make a school good or bad, it does guage support.

4. TERRITORY: Marshall brings no new state, new media, or recruiting territory. Conversely, it might hurt a standing member.

My final analysis is this. I would not add Marshall as a ninth school. However, if they win CUSA, WVU nominates them, and we go to 12, I think they deserve serious consideration. I believe they will find that CUSA, even without Louisville, will be tougher sledding than the MAC.

This brings me to my final point, the MAC, arguably the next to worst conference in 1a football. Five teams in the MAC had better records than Marshall last year--FIVE. Add to this that Marshall just lost their fine coach, and I wonder how they plan to get better.

One of the things Marshall fans keep contending is that they are a rival of WVU. PLEASE! The governor had to force WVU to play them again. How many times has Marshall won that game in their history? NEVER, NOT ONE GAME. Is this a rivalry?

As a matter of fact, they do not have a winning record against one single BIGEAST team or even one team we have discussed regarding expansion.

I'll never say never, but Marshall is not high on my wish list. If I had to go to the MAC (which I don't want), I would take any of these teams first: MIAMI OH, 10-30-1; BOWLING GREEN, 7-20; OHIO, 17-29-6; TOLEDO, 18-22-1; et al. In case you haven't guessed, those numbers are Marshall's records against those teams.

If I were a betting man (which I'm not), I'd have to say that they will be hard-pressed to finish in the top half of their 6-team division in cusa next year. I predict that MEMPHIS AND S MISS will both be higher. UAB and ECU may both be higher. That only leaves UCF. I think the herd can beat UCF.

Yoda Wrote:Marshall confuses me a little. If you look at Marshall, circa 2001, they had a very strong program. But currently, they suck.

Their Sagarins have been in a freefall.

2001 -- 79.09
2002 -- 74.01
2003 -- 72.70
2004 -- 62.67

So what the heck is going on? Attendance has stayed steady throughout -- 26,000 to 28,000 -- which is a good sign. But what happened to the on field performance and when (and why) will it improve?

Gotta answer that one before you can decide whther or not they would be a valuable addition...

Yoda out...

Marshall was caught with several NCAA violations for giving test answers to football players and for getting jobs to props through a booster ($15/hour janitorial jobs). They were stripped of some scholarships and put on probation. The MAC didn't have the balls to strip them of the MAC titles they won, but now that it is a little harder for them to cheat they have found it is harder for them to win consistently.

the Big East will add the school that will bring us the most money through bowl and TV appeal etc....having two schools from the state that has the smallest media market this side of the Mississippi is not going to help at least from the TV end....I wouldn't want to be the one to try to convince UC and Louisville that it would be in there best interest to create another BCS recruiting rival in there collective backyards


Jackson

A poster above professed a problem with Marshall because they've only played at the Division 1A level for a decade or so. A conference that has So. Florida and UConn, both of whom have played Div. 1A for less than FIVE years, has no business raising such an objection.

If one team is going to be added it should be East Carolina.

Losing season after losing season, and they still average close to 40,000 fans. That shows great fan support and they stick with there team, not sure of the number but im sure they would travel well too. ECU has a good tradition and already plays WVU anually. If ECU were to come to the Big East i think they would be able to become the top if not second to top school in North Carolina. With there tradition im pretty sure they would become a very good member. Not sure about there Basketball team, but basketball is alot easier to turn around than football.

JIM15068 Wrote:However, if they win CUSA, WVU nominates them, and we go to 12, I think they deserve serious consideration. I believe they will find that CUSA, even without Louisville, will be tougher sledding than the MAC.

I agree with you on this point JIM15068. Despite being a Marshall graduate and HERD fan, I am curious to see how Marshall will perform in CUSA during the next five years. Excluding Miami, OH, Toledo, Northern Illinois, and Bowling Green, CUSA will definately be a tougher conference to perform in. With animosity between some posters aside, I would imagine USF, Louisville and Cincy fans would agree that Southern Miss, Memphis, UAB aren't exactly walks in the park.
As JIM 15068 stated, if Marshall dominates, or at least comes in second, over the next several years in CUSA, then Marshall should be considered if the Big East goes to 12. I think stadium expansion has been discussed,and if implemented, would reach around 50,000+.

Realistically, f the Big East goes to nine members, I would assume Memphis and ECU would be the strongest candidates. Again, it's a wait-and-see decision. If ECU's football gets back to playing well, that may raise some eyebrows. If Memphis continues to play well in football, in addition to their fine baskeball, I'd say they would have to be the top choice for consideration.
I think UCF was even mentioned as an outside possibility. Again, if they step it up in football, their location in Florida and closeness to USF might garner serious consideration.

As of right now, I just want to see some college football being played!!!!! Everyone will do just fine in their conferences and I wish each team the best of luck.
Personally, I believe WVU vs. Louisville will turn into something special. I will be anxious to see these two go at it on the field!

Thanks everyone!

NEWFIEHERDFAN, a well-expressed post.

I'm sure a lot of us will be watching CUSA with interest now. I think most of agree that we will have to expand, and in the EAST, cusa is really the only conference to observe.

tufinal4 Wrote:A poster above professed a problem with Marshall because they've only played at the Division 1A level for a decade or so. A conference that has So. Florida and UConn, both of whom have played Div. 1A for less than FIVE years, has no business raising such an objection.

Another person (Jim something) said:

"I truly believe every major school should have a stadium that holds 50,000 and be able to average above 40,000."

Guess UL, UCONN, Rutgers, and former member BC aren't major schools yet either.

Welcome to "Summer".

KL

Quote:A poster above professed a problem with Marshall because they've only played at the Division 1A level for a decade or so.

I was not 'professing a problem,' I was refuting the false (or at the very least debatable) claim that Marshall has the most tradition of any mid-major left.

Quote:and in the EAST, cusa is really the only conference to observe.

I'd actually like to see one of a few select schools from the Atlantic 10 jump up before seeing Memphis or East Carolina in the Big East.

I do believe that those stadiums are too small. I, also, think that UCONN AND LOU have plans to expand theirs. I don't know about Rutgers' plans.

It should be pointed out that all 4 stadiums mentioned do hold above 40,000.

Their respective attendances relative to Marshall's were the following last year.

BC 43,190
LOU 40,531
CONN 39,304
RUTG 30,994
MARSHALL 25,933

In fairness to Marshall, one Bigeast member did draw less than them, Cincinnati.

As I said before, I don't dislike Marshall. It's just that they wouldn't be one of my choices for a 9th school option. Win CUSA and prove me wrong. Good luck.

JIM15068 Wrote:I do believe that those stadiums are too small. I, also, think that UCONN AND LOU have plans to expand theirs. I don't know about Rutgers' plans.

It should be pointed out that all 4 stadiums mentioned do hold above 40,000.

Their respective attendances relative to Marshall's were the following last year.

BC 43,190
LOU 40,531
CONN 39,304
RUTG 30,994
MARSHALL 25,933

In fairness to Marshall, one Bigeast member did draw less than them, Cincinnati.

As I said before, I don't dislike Marshall. It's just that they wouldn't be one of my choices for a 9th school option. Win CUSA and prove me wrong. Good luck.

I'm not one to talk up Marshall, but in fairness to them you have to look at who they played at home for that attendance.

Home games against Troy, Miami University, Buffalo, UCF, and Western Michigan. Three of those teams combined for a 3-30 record. Their 2005 schedule is going to be better for fan recognition with schools like Kansas State, SMU, UAB, Southern Miss, and East Carolina on the home schedule (William & Mary is their other home game). I would have to guess they will be over 30K with that schedule.

If Marshall was in the Big East and playing schools like UCONN, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, WVU, etc; their attendance would be a lot better.

You could say the same thing for a school like Toledo that has averaged about 33K for home games against schools from the Big East in the last 5 or 6 years.

JIM15068 Wrote:I do believe that those stadiums are too small. I, also, think that UCONN AND LOU have plans to expand theirs. I don't know about Rutgers' plans.

It should be pointed out that all 4 stadiums mentioned do hold above 40,000.

Their respective attendances relative to Marshall's were the following last year.

BC 43,190
LOU 40,531
CONN 39,304
RUTG 30,994
MARSHALL 25,933

In fairness to Marshall, one Bigeast member did draw less than them, Cincinnati.

As I said before, I don't dislike Marshall. It's just that they wouldn't be one of my choices for a 9th school option. Win CUSA and prove me wrong. Good luck.

JIM, I don't believe Rutgers has any plans for expansion at this time. However give us 2 winning seasons and I imagine we'll be selling out the 41,500 seats we have now every game. At that point they'd probably expand to around 60,000 seats. If we really started to get fans we'd probably need a brand new stadium but its obvious that we can easily expand the upper deck to connect the two current ones we have which I'd imagine adds close to 20,000 seats to get us to around 60,000.

rocketfootball Wrote:

Yoda Wrote:Marshall confuses me a little.  If you look at Marshall, circa 2001, they had a very strong program.  But currently, they suck.

Their Sagarins have been in a freefall.

2001 -- 79.09
2002 -- 74.01
2003 -- 72.70
2004 -- 62.67

So what the heck is going on?  Attendance has stayed steady throughout -- 26,000 to 28,000 -- which is a good sign.  But what happened to the on field performance and when (and why) will it improve?

Gotta answer that one before you can decide whther or not they would be a valuable addition...

Yoda out...

Marshall was caught with several NCAA violations for giving test answers to football players and for getting jobs to props through a booster ($15/hour janitorial jobs). They were stripped of some scholarships and put on probation. The MAC didn't have the balls to strip them of the MAC titles they won, but now that it is a little harder for them to cheat they have found it is harder for them to win consistently.

I'm beginning to realize that you REALLY DO post more about Marshall than your own school. :wave: