(11-21-2011 03:00 PM)etsuBucsFan1988 Wrote:  Look I am not a Dave Mullins fan by any stretch, but unless he has done something illegal or wrong in the universities mind or polices, what basis would a new president have in firing him the moment he walks in to his new job? I think some of you are so mad and frustrated (and rightly so maybe) that you really are not thinking clearly.

exactly...

I'm going to assume that by "footballers" you mean the Football Foundation. Ok, let's go with that thought.

In my opinion, the Football Foundation (that's paid members) has been nothing but polite and professional in this on-going drama that has been unfolding for the last eight years. They've never called for anyone's job, they've never "gone dirty," and they've continued to promote the University and the mission of the institution. Their message has been and will continue to be about “WHY” football is a good thing and “WHY” the Marching Band is a good thing. Pretty simple message. Unless I'm missing someone on here, to my knowledge there are NO paid, card-carrying Foundation members on this board, including myself. So there is not one person who speaks on behalf of the actual Football Foundation, makes policy or practice for the BFFF, or is entitled to vote with the BFFF. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the BFFF doesn’t post on this message board.

After the failed, miserable attempt by stanton (that's for you Doc!) to reinstate the program, the Foundation's base was very disgruntled and less than appreciative of the farce of an attempt. Many people were so disappointed that they pulled back and basically resigned themselves to a ‘holding pattern’ with the only hope of ever getting the program back being a new President. Most thought there was an opening when Stanton announced his retirement BUT then un-retired. I was screaming at the top of my lungs that there was NO MANDATE from the TBR for a student vote, but nobody challenged Stanton, including the Foundation members.

There are other people, far more than most would think, who see the Football Foundation as entirely too passive. I will include myself in that group. We had several people lining up to find out what it “would cost” to get rid of a college President? How can we get twist the arms? How can we do this/that. But, because of the class and the demeanor of Jerry Robertson, he would not tolerate the idea of extreme actions. If you think I’m exaggerating the extent that some of the Football Alumni were willing to go in terms of political attacks and the sort, you’d be wrong.

I personally have not been a formal, paid, voting member for four years. After I got to UTC, I just didn’t have the time or energy to keep fighting the good fight. Then the personal and professional attacks occurred and I had to separate myself from most of the fray. I respect Jerry and I communicated with him many times over the past eight years BUT my tactics are not the kind that I wanted to have associated with the Foundation’s name tag, namely the use of this and other message boards. I’m a little more high strung than some of the men on the Foundation Board. Although I’ve always tried to be very upfront about my distain for the direction of the department and ultimately the University, totally honest in terms of what I know to be true, along with injections of my perspective as it relates to college Athletics (of which I am much more qualified to speak than most at ETSU given that I’ve worked at different schools and have actually seen more than most).

Do I think there needs to be a house cleaning? Darn Skippy, I do. I think there will be too many people that will never trust the “establishment” that is currently in place if Dr. Noland intends to bring back football. There are too many nasty, underhanded things that have been done for people to trust them. Most people on campus don’t like or trust the majority of the talking heads in the department. That bothers me to some extend because there are some of those same people that I considered friends and colleagues, but I don’t trust many of them anymore myself for various reasons.

There are people on this message board who have good intentions and those who really don’t want football to return. That’s the individual person’s prerogative. From all my time on the board, I’ve seen people have to defend WHY they want football back, I’ve seen people insulted because they are ‘pro-football,’ we’ve seen people give logical and passionate responses to the pro/con’s of the current status of ETSU Athletics, and we’ve seen that pretty much any topic related to ETSU and ATHLETICS can have a nice infusion of “Football” injected. I like that, because it’s true, any topic and a “pro-footballer” will make sure it turns back to the real conversation that means more to most of us than beating up on D2 Church Schools.

I’ve really not seen any of the crazy stuff that we used to see over on the old SoConHoops board with some of the more “colorful” characters. I personally miss the occasional MutherDrucker and TennisAnyone!! Just kidding. What I do see, for the most part, is very passionate and very informed people discussing the ideas and concepts and the realities. I can’t apologize for my staunch support of the sport returning and I’m sure there won’t be many who support the idea that will apologize. But, they are just opinions. It’s now time for that passion and information and enthusiasm to be put into action.

Now, I’m mailing my dues in to the Foundation and I will be attending the meeting on Dec. 5th @6pm in the CM Boggs Conference Room at the Iris Glen Waste Management center in Johnson City. I’ll be there with my ideas and my enthusiasm. I’ve heard there will be CHICK-FIL-A!! If you intend to come, you can email the Foundation or call Jerry Robertson directly. I will be a member but my opinion will continue to my MY opinion and when I am asked to speak for the Foundation I will indicate as such.

So, join us in this very exciting time for East Tennessee State University. If you can’t be at the Dec. 5th meeting, email me your ideas and your encouragement and I’ll pass them along. Reecekimberly@gmail.com

(11-21-2011 03:00 PM)etsuBucsFan1988 Wrote:  Look I am not a Dave Mullins fan by any stretch, but unless he has done something illegal or wrong in the universities mind or polices, what basis would a new president have in firing him the moment he walks in to his new job? I think some of you are so mad and frustrated (and rightly so maybe) that you really are not thinking clearly.

Fired is not the word I would use, parting ways is more appropriate. Look these things almost always happen when there is a change in leadership. Its not personal, its business. New Presidents often transition the leadership team around them. I would expect a number of the Provosts and VPs to move on and be replaced. Change at the top doesn't always mean a change at the top of the athletic department but I don't see any way for it not to happen in this case. If Noland does any sort of internal review or sit down with Mullins he`ll make a change.

At this point its less about whether Mullins supports football or not. Whoever the AD is needs to not only share Noland's vision for ETSU athletics but be able to execute it. Noland is a University President, not an athletic director. He doesn't have the time nor the responsibility of holding Mullins hand. ETSU needs good effective leadership, at the President's level, and at the AD level. Even if Noland told Mullins he wanted him to start working immediately on restarting the football program Mullins wouldn't be able to carry it out. He has no vision, poor leadership skills, little marketing acumen, and is bad with people. Not to mention his vision for ETSU athletics likely falls short of what Noland wants.

Noland needs to hire his own people, that includes a new AD. Its not something that I expect to happen overnight. Noland is nothing if not professional, he`ll likely allow Mullins to leave in a graceful manner. He can put a hold on some things in the interim though. I`m hopefully he`ll put a stop on new spending initiatives until he`s had a chance to review them (I`m thinking specifically about a certain million dollar tennis facility for one).

Agree with 22 completely. I would also add Bartow will also need to be removed. This most definitely will not come to fruition until an asun exit. Assuming there is one.

(11-21-2011 05:52 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  

(11-21-2011 03:00 PM)etsuBucsFan1988 Wrote:  Look I am not a Dave Mullins fan by any stretch, but unless he has done something illegal or wrong in the universities mind or polices, what basis would a new president have in firing him the moment he walks in to his new job? I think some of you are so mad and frustrated (and rightly so maybe) that you really are not thinking clearly.

Fired is not the word I would use, parting ways is more appropriate. Look these things almost always happen when there is a change in leadership. Its not personal, its business. New Presidents often transition the leadership team around them. I would expect a number of the Provosts and VPs to move on and be replaced. Change at the top doesn't always mean a change at the top of the athletic department but I don't see any way for it not to happen in this case. If Noland does any sort of internal review or sit down with Mullins he`ll make a change.

At this point its less about whether Mullins supports football or not. Whoever the AD is needs to not only share Noland's vision for ETSU athletics but be able to execute it. Noland is a University President, not an athletic director. He doesn't have the time nor the responsibility of holding Mullins hand. ETSU needs good effective leadership, at the President's level, and at the AD level. Even if Noland told Mullins he wanted him to start working immediately on restarting the football program Mullins wouldn't be able to carry it out. He has no vision, poor leadership skills, little marketing acumen, and is bad with people. Not to mention his vision for ETSU athletics likely falls short of what Noland wants.

Noland needs to hire his own people, that includes a new AD. Its not something that I expect to happen overnight. Noland is nothing if not professional, he`ll likely allow Mullins to leave in a graceful manner. He can put a hold on some things in the interim though. I`m hopefully he`ll put a stop on new spending initiatives until he`s had a chance to review them (I`m thinking specifically about a certain million dollar tennis facility for one).

really good analysis. however, i think the tennis thing ia already out of the barn and probably is more difficult to stop at this point.

Dr. Noland needs to look at the books and ask why over the past year and a half more than $25K has been spent on the current tennis facility. that might put a halt to the process of tearing it down and rebuilding in another location. I can't wait to see if Mullins will resurface the dome tennis courts this Christmas break.
With some of the last minute additions to the department I am sure Mullins has protected his favorite coaches with contract extensions - Zaatini and Bartow but not Fred!

(11-21-2011 06:35 PM)Goldfinger Wrote:  Agree with 22 completely. I would also add Bartow will also need to be removed. This most definitely will not come to fruition until an asun exit. Assuming there is one.

I wouldn't try to hire another basketball coach while ETSU is in its current position. If you were a good young coach would you want the ETSU job? Stuck in the A-Sun, facilities a mess, fan support waning, budget lower than competitors, etc, etc.

Once we get into a better conference and Bartow has a budget and facilities on par with peer programs he`ll have to sink or swim on his own merit.

Have to get a new AD first though, then let him review Bartow and the status of the basketball program.

I am ready for Bartow to go- I am tired of his personality and absolutely hate his style of play (no real offense). But any objective look from the outside from someone who is not intimately involved in watching/listening to every game would have to say that he has done a fine job here. There is no basis at all to fire him.

Mullins is a slightly different story because his face is associated with the football issue. But again, he is the AD for a university who has won the overall athletic achievement award from the conference almost every year we have been in the conference (if not every year). There is very little basis for firing him either.

More likely, Noland will start putting pressure on the football issue, and ideological differences will result in a resignation from Mullins. And if Bartow leaves, it will be to a different university after a good season.

(11-21-2011 03:00 PM)etsuBucsFan1988 Wrote:  Look I am not a Dave Mullins fan by any stretch, but unless he has done something illegal or wrong in the universities mind or polices, what basis would a new president have in firing him the moment he walks in to his new job? I think some of you are so mad and frustrated (and rightly so maybe) that you really are not thinking clearly.

It has to do less with Mullins' perceived competence or lack thereof, and more to do with a simple change in philosophy. Presidents will change a lot of higher-ups and bring in their "own people."

Mullins has made a few good hires, but he's politically damaged from playing the yes man for the death of football. I think he'll be given a chance to retire gracefully, and if he refuses, he'll get fired, but this probably won't happen until summer at the earliest, when Noland will have a chance to assess everything.

"It has to do less with Mullins' perceived competence or lack thereof, and more to do with a simple change in philosophy." very true.
"but he's politically damaged from playing the yes man for the death of football" very, very true

very good and logical post as always

I don't see a quick exit for Mullins unless he chooses to retire. I think this board is shortsighted when examining the university as a whole and athletics as a priority in that picture. Athletics will not become a revenue generator for the university so I doubt priority number one is making athletics progress. The university in its entirety is less than desirable as an institution and that needs to be addressed. Athletics isn't causing any problems, so I don't see Mullins being asked to leave unless he absolutely refuses to follow Noland's direction. I think it's much more logical that he will be given the chance to align with Noland's vision (assuming it's anything different from the current athletics reality) and if he does not succeed in that area then he will be gone. I see no glaring issues from athletics that would required an immediate exit.

The underlying message of Mullins' tenure as AD is that of complacency.

Listen to him, and everything is fine and dandy. There's no need for change because things could not be better.

Bull.

Just about every school in the A-Sun has thought or thinks it can be better. They think they can move to a better conference. They think they can become a bigger, better athletic program. That's why the A-Sun has lost or will lose 21 members in its relatively short 33-year life span.

The schools that departed don't brag to a fanbase that couldn't care less about trophies won in cross country or about a women's basketball program that could never win a conference championship until it joined the A-Sun (hmmmmmm); they go out and join Conference USA or the SoCon and say we want to compete at a higher level.

So the thing here is, will Nolan be happy with being the proverbial "big fish in a small pond?" And frankly, there may be more reasons to be the proverbial big fish now. If making the NCAA Tournament in men's basketball is viewed as the pinnacle of ETSU sports acheivement, then there is no reason for the Bucs to stop doing what they are doing now. They'll go to the NCAAs every two or three years and maybe, just maybe, they'll spring an upset like they did in 1992 every 10 or 15 visits.

But if the pinnacle of ETSU sports acheivement is actually making some noise, if it's about winning in the NCAAs and not just showing up, if it's to maybe win a national championship- and hopefully in a sport people actually care about and follow- instead of having a clueless administrator repeatedly tell crowds you were the national champions in rifle in 1984 when you were actually second, if it's to be a footprint instead of a footnote, then the cherished all-sports trophies of the A-Sun have to be met with a collective "blah" and improvement from that level must be demanded.

To tell you the truth, I don't necessarily think the president's office is the only way for the latter vision of ETSU athletics to prevail. I think, as always, the Tri-Cities fan base could also provide that impetus for improvement, though historically they have shown little inclination to do so or belief it is possible.