We are all focusing in on Memphis, Temple, ECU and UCF but why not get the Service Academies for Football Only Membership especially Navy who has played well the past few years.

6/16/2005 - Football
Naval Academy Eligible For BCS Participation

ANNAPOLIS, Md.-The Naval Academy football program, coming off its best season in 99 years, will be eligible for selection to one of the five Bowl Championship Series (BCS) games starting this fall, Naval Academy Director of Athletics Chet Gladchuk announced Thursday. The Naval Academy Athletic Association will also receive a fiscal stipend from the BCS coalition insuring Navy's commitment to participate if selected starting in 2006.

"The Naval Academy has been making a very significant commitment towards the advancement of our football program on a national level. Although we will continue to remain an independent, BCS inclusion presents an opportunity for our program, if selected, to showcase a rich, storied and successful Naval Academy football tradition at the highest level of post season play," said Naval Academy Director of Athletics Chet Gladchuk. "The equation is simple. If we win enough games we are now, without question, eligible under BCS guidelines to be considered as an at-large participant."

The Naval Academy is coming off a remarkable season that saw Navy win 10 games for just the second time in school history and for the first time in 99 years. The Mids also won a bowl game for the first time since 1996, won the Commander-In-Chief's Trophy for the second-consecutive season, finish the year ranked in the Top 25 for the first time since 1978 and had head coach Paul Johnson earn the Bobby Dodd Award as the National Coach of the Year.
Navy would be eligible for a BCS Bowl if ranked in the top 12 in the final BCS standings and won at least nine games. If Navy finishes sixth or higher in the final BCS standings, it would earn a guaranteed slot in one of the BCS games unless more than two teams meet the criteria.

If the Midshipmen crack the top 12, they would no doubt be strong contenders for a BCS Bowl with their recent track record of bringing a large fan base to postseason competition. Two years ago, 25,000 fans followed Navy to Houston to see the Mids take on Texas Tech and last year, more than 18,000 Navy fans purchased tickets to see the Mids defeat New Mexico in the Emerald Bowl.

<a href='http://www.navysports.com/sports/football/release.asp?RELEASE_ID=17741' target='_blank'>Navy Football</a>

I and I'm sure many on this board would agree with you....Army and Navy for football only would be natural fits...I could even tolerate the army and navy playing 4 BE games each for a few yrs untill they got there feet wet


Jackson

The service academies are located near major East Coast markets. They'll never contend for a national championship, but you might be able to say the same for Memphis and ECU. Navy and Army are a good draw where ever they play.

The thing both of them have is HUGE fan bases. Navy took a lot of people to their bowl game this past year. Plus they are making it easier to recruit some good players.

There is no reason why Army and Navy could be just as good as Air Force in the past 10 years. Plus both are in the geographic footprint for the Big East.

They would hurt the strength of schedule!

Now playing Navy counts as playing a BCS team. Interesting. I wonder if the same thing is true for Army, if they have BCS inclusion? And I wonder how Air Force feels, with Navy having BCS inclusion but they don't?

Good question. And what if Air Force gets BCS inclusion and the rest MWC does not?

Cat's_Claw Wrote:Now playing Navy counts as playing a BCS team. Interesting. I wonder if the same thing is true for Army, if they have BCS inclusion? And I wonder how Air Force feels, with Navy having BCS inclusion but they don't?

Those exact same questions ran thru my mind. It looks like Air Force being in the MWC is hindering their bcs status. I will expect some announcement from Army soon regarding the bcs, even though they are not as nearly as good as Navy. This same scenario played out with the ESPN tv contract, first Navy and then Army.

Jackson1011 Wrote:I and I'm sure many on this board would agree with you....Army and Navy for football only would be natural fits...I could even tolerate the army and navy playing 4 BE games each for a few yrs untill they got there feet wet


Jackson

Army and Navy will never be football powers. Their institutions and commitments to attend will not allow them to be.

You may see Army or Navy have a good couple of years every now and then but their glory days are gone. They will never have the ability to compete in todays collegiate arena.

Army and Navy will not help the Big East become what it wants to become. They are great schools with great tradition no doubt but I would have to say they would not be the best additions.

Some of you guys kill me. You want an all sports conference that can someday become a great conferene but you want to allow schools like Army, Navy, and Notre Dame to be partial members.

That is not the way to go and will not add stability to the conference over the long term.

Army has seen that can't compete in a conference. They don't need to nor does Notre Dame nor Navy.

RIVER CITY PIRATE Wrote:Some of you guys kill me. You want an all sports conference that can someday become a great conferene but you want to allow schools like Army, Navy, and Notre Dame to be partial members.

That is not the way to go and will not add stability to the conference over the long term.

Army has seen that can't compete in a conference. They don't need to nor does Notre Dame nor Navy.

It's not a matter of Army or Navy being able to compete, and they might be able to compete look at Air Force, it's about adding their fan base and markets. It's also about scheduling flexibility and improved bowl access.

<a href='http://www.bcsfootball.org/news.cfm' target='_blank'>http://www.bcsfootball.org/news.cfm</a>

The Letter To Congress in April from the above link has a good description of all 11 conferences and ND with no mention of Navy until yesterday. Just some conf still have the auto vs some conf not having the auto.
Navy just got thrown in the mix.

Check out some of the other transcripts.

Imagine college basketball or the CWS having something different than a playoff?!?

The only non playoff in all of college sports including Div 1-AA football that has a playoff. Travel ain't the issue. $$$$$$ is!

I thought the bcs.org site had some interesting stuff though.
It is nice to see Navy getting some love and more inclusion for all 117 schools.

RIVER CITY PIRATE Wrote:

Jackson1011 Wrote:I and I'm sure many on this board would agree with you....Army and Navy for football only would be natural fits...I could even tolerate the army and navy playing 4 BE games each for a few yrs untill they got there feet wet


&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Jackson

Army and Navy will never be football powers. Their institutions and commitments to attend will not allow them to be.

You may see Army or Navy have a good couple of years every now and then but their glory days are gone. They will never have the ability to compete in todays collegiate arena.

Army and Navy will not help the Big East become what it wants to become. They are great schools with great tradition no doubt but I would have to say they would not be the best additions.

Some of you guys kill me. You want an all sports conference that can someday become a great conferene but you want to allow schools like Army, Navy, and Notre Dame to be partial members.

That is not the way to go and will not add stability to the conference over the long term.

Army has seen that can't compete in a conference. They don't need to nor does Notre Dame nor Navy.

I've got to agree that we don't need partial members; we need an all-sports conference.

However, I do believe that NAVY (AND maybe ARMY) would help the BIGEAST. Navy's ranking last year would actually pull up the conference average for the bcs, but that's not the important point.
The important part is that the political pull of Navy would forever solidify the BE BCS bid.

Don't you find it strange that Navy gets a chance at a bcs bid and a stipend to boot? That's political power. The Congress has been observing the exclusivity/inclusiveness of the BCS. While most Congressmen are only concerned about their own constituents, almost all would want to appear to be supporting the service academies. Mark my words; the bcs would never take a bid away from a conference that includes the service academies.

Now, I've read many a poster say that Navy doesn't want to join a conference. I would contend that Navy would be very interested in the BIGEAST. These are parts of actual quotes from Chet Gladchuk, the Navy AD, to fans questioning the chance of conference affiliation.

1. We will revisit conference affiliation again down the road.

2. I don't discount the very real possibility of conference affiliation down the road.
- answered by: Chet Gladchuk

3. It's possible that we could join the Big East somewhere down the road.

4. I will admit, however, if down the road the Big East is a possibility, we'll consider it very carefully.

To me, that doesn't sound like a guy who is opposed to joining the BIGEAST.

Jim

Cat's_Claw Wrote:

RIVER CITY PIRATE Wrote:Some of you guys kill me.&nbsp; You want an all sports conference that can someday become a great conferene but you want to allow schools like Army, Navy, and Notre Dame to be partial members.

That is not the way to go and will not add stability to the conference over the long term.

Army has seen that can't compete in a conference.&nbsp; They don't need to nor does Notre Dame nor Navy.

It's not a matter of Army or Navy being able to compete, and they might be able to compete look at Air Force, it's about adding their fan base and markets. It's also about scheduling flexibility and improved bowl access.

Claw,

You have just summed it up. The overall quality of the program and whether it can produce a winner on the field year in and year out is not the problem. You want their markets and their ability to maybe attract bowls. That is the problem with the whole system.

Army and Navy do not have a market like most schools do. They do have a national audience to some degree. Air Force for one has less standards for admission than Annapolis and West Point plus leaving the AFA and flying planes is much more appealing.

But how is that going to help the Big East survive in the world of collegiate football today if you have two programs who will be more at the bottom of Divison I than near the top?

And before you say ole ECU is at the bottom now I do no this but hell we beat Army even in our worst of times. They were two of our three wins the last two years. Not bragging because this record is pitiful but shows you what you would have on most years with Army and Navy. I do enjoy the games with Army for one it is a guaranteed win. It is a special game in a way but I would much rather see other schools on the schedule year in and year out.

This is Navy's schedule for 2005. You can see where they are going with their scheduling as you can with Army:


Date Opponent Location Time/Result
Sep 3 vs. Maryland Baltimore, Md. 6:00 PM
Sep 10 Stanford Annapolis, Md. 6:00 PM
Sep 24 at Rice Houston, Texas 8:00 PM
Oct 1 at Duke Durham, N.C. TBA
Oct 8 Air Force Annapolis, Md. 1:30 PM
Oct 15 Kent State Annapolis, Md. 1:30 PM
Oct 29 at Rutgers Piscataway, N.J. TBA
Nov 5 Tulane (Homecoming) Annapolis, Md. 1:30 PM
Nov 12 at Notre Dame South Bend, Ind. 1:00 PM
Nov 19 Temple Annapolis, Md. 1:30 PM
Dec 3 vs. Army (CBS) Philadelphia, Pa. TBA
All Game Times Are Eastern Time

Here is Army' s schedule for 2005:

Day Date Opponent Location Outcome/Time
Sat 09/10/2005 at Boston College Chestnut Hill, Mass. 12:30 PM
Sat 09/17/2005 BAYLOR West Point, N.Y. 3:00 PM
Fri 09/23/2005 IOWA STATE West Point, N.Y. 8:00 PM
Sat 10/01/2005 CONNECTICUT West Point, N.Y. TBA TBA
Sat 10/08/2005 CENTRAL MICHIGAN West Point, N.Y. TBA TBA
Sat 10/15/2005 at TCU Fort Worth, Texas TBA 7:00 PM
Sat 10/22/2005 at Akron Akron, Ohio TBA 6:00 PM
Sat 11/05/2005 at Air Force USAFA, Colo. TBA TBA
Sat 11/12/2005 MASSACHUSETTS West Point, N.Y. TBA TBA
Sat 11/19/2005 ARKANSAS STATE West Point, N.Y. TBA TBA
Sat 12/03/2005 vs. Navy Philadelphia, Pa. 2:30 PM

These are good schedules for both Army and Navy. Most of their games are with schools that they can compete with. They can be competetive with these schedules. They can go to bowl games without the Big East or CUSA or whoever with these schedules. They don;t have the chance to do this playing a Big East or CUSA schedule on a yearly basis. Especially since they have to limit their out of conference games.

Quote:Army and Navy will never be football powers. Their institutions and commitments to attend will not allow them to be.

You may see Army or Navy have a good couple of years every now and then but their glory days are gone. They will never have the ability to compete in todays collegiate arena.

Army and Navy will not help the Big East become what it wants to become. They are great schools with great tradition no doubt but I would have to say they would not be the best additions.

Some of you guys kill me. You want an all sports conference that can someday become a great conferene but you want to allow schools like Army, Navy, and Notre Dame to be partial members.

That is not the way to go and will not add stability to the conference over the long term.

Army has seen that can't compete in a conference. They don't need to nor does Notre Dame nor Navy.

-- Easy River City....our opinions aren't going to have any effect as to how things will play out.....as for a future football conference...I want it to be a BCS league and have its membership to offer a schedule with as many traditional rivals as possible....basically I want a schedule as close to the one WVU had when I was a kid as possible.....basically that is the current BE football except USF and schools such as Notre Dame, Penn St, Army, Navy, Boston College and Temple (althought the Owls have to improve a lot on and off the field before I would consider them) and even ECU to an exten...that's what I want

-- If Army and Navy want in...I wouldn't have a problem with it....the academies are still huge draw in terms of attendance for the other former eastern indys.

Jackson

Navy is getting the same deal as all other non_BCS schools. There is nothing special about this. It just another smoke screem by the BCS to make people think that everyone is a paricipant. Hell the funny thing is that over on their website they actually have all the conferences logos on their. I find that amusing.

To me this is bad news for anyone who wants to see Army and Navy join a conference, They can in theory go to the BCS without having to play a brutal schedule. (See previuos post). But lets be realistic. If Navy finsihes 12th with the schedule they play it will be used against them. Not my opinion but the way it will be.

All these things are smoke screens and the greedy ones have been behind the scenes working so their conferences can get two teams in a BCS game.

:bang:

Navy just signed a tv deal with CSTV and Army w/ ESPN.

Even though CSTV is not as big as ESPN yet, tie that in and the new bcs announcement for NAVY, that is big. Not as big as ND, but that gets them walking around the table looking for a chair which better than they were.

I think that might keep them away from a conf as well even with them saying they are not interested now at this time last year.

Both service members have that national base and those 2 tv deals might work to keep them out of a conf but still get plenty of exposure. And winning doesn't hurt either.

Jackson1011 Wrote:

Quote:Army and Navy will never be football powers. Their institutions and commitments to attend will not allow them to be.

You may see Army or Navy have a good couple of years every now and then but their glory days are gone. They will never have the ability to compete in todays collegiate arena.

Army and Navy will not help the Big East become what it wants to become. They are great schools with great tradition no doubt but I would have to say they would not be the best additions.

Some of you guys kill me. You want an all sports conference that can someday become a great conferene but you want to allow schools like Army, Navy, and Notre Dame to be partial members.

That is not the way to go and will not add stability to the conference over the long term.

Army has seen that can't compete in a conference. They don't need to nor does Notre Dame nor Navy.

-- Easy River City....our opinions aren't going to have any effect as to how things will play out.....as for a future football conference...I want it to be a BCS league and have its membership to offer a schedule with as many traditional rivals as possible....basically I want a schedule as close to the one WVU had when I was a kid as possible.....basically that is the current BE football except USF and schools such as Notre Dame, Penn St, Army, Navy, Boston College and Temple (althought the Owls have to improve a lot on and off the field before I would consider them) and even ECU to an exten...that's what I want

-- If Army and Navy want in...I wouldn't have a problem with it....the academies are still huge draw in terms of attendance for the other former eastern indys.

Jackson

Jackson,

I am not trying to be uneasy. Not that you are not the only one I have seen posts things like let them be partial members. To me whether ECU ever joins the BE or not I want ECU to be a part of an all-sports conference. This half football vs. non-football is BS. It is unhealthy and will prove the demise of the BE in my opinion if their is not a split. But then you want Notre Dame, Army, and Navy to be in as partial members. The same problem. Not everyone has the same interests and goals.

One thing I hate haven done to me is being used. Notre Dame already does it to the BE. But many still want them to be "partial members."

To me the future is either all-sports or not.

CUSA has more stability right now than the Big East does. Lets be honest. Not saying one is better than the other just saying that as far as stability goes CUSA probaly has the edge. While the BE will be in-fighting over the next five years CUSA will be building a conference. One that will be stronger in five years simply because everyone will be on the same page. CUSA could lose a school like ECU or Memphis and keep on going but could the BE afford to lose a WVU or a Syracuse and say the same thing?

That is why partial membership for any conference is dangeous. You could say any school instead of Army and Navy and I would say the same thing.

Quote:Navy just signed a tv deal with CSTV and Army w/ ESPN.

Even though CSTV is not as big as ESPN yet, tie that in and the new bcs announcement for NAVY, that is big. Not as big as ND, but that gets them walking around the table looking for a chair which better than they were.

I think that might keep them away from a conf as well even with them saying they are not interested now at this time last year.

Both service members have that national base and those 2 tv deals might work to keep them out of a conf but still get plenty of exposure. And winning doesn't hurt either.

-- totally agree...I don't think they are coming in anytime soon either....they really don't need conference affliation....they have there own TV deals and if they have a winning record they will make a bowl....I'm just saying it would be nice


Jackson

Quote:Jackson,

I am not trying to be uneasy. Not that you are not the only one I have seen posts things like let them be partial members. To me whether ECU ever joins the BE or not I want ECU to be a part of an all-sports conference. This half football vs. non-football is BS. It is unhealthy and will prove the demise of the BE in my opinion if their is not a split. But then you want Notre Dame, Army, and Navy to be in as partial members. The same problem. Not everyone has the same interests and goals.

One thing I hate haven done to me is being used. Notre Dame already does it to the BE. But many still want them to be "partial members."

To me the future is either all-sports or not.

CUSA has more stability right now than the Big East does. Lets be honest. Not saying one is better than the other just saying that as far as stability goes CUSA probaly has the edge. While the BE will be in-fighting over the next five years CUSA will be building a conference. One that will be stronger in five years simply because everyone will be on the same page. CUSA could lose a school like ECU or Memphis and keep on going but could the BE afford to lose a WVU or a Syracuse and say the same thing?

That is why partial membership for any conference is dangeous. You could say any school instead of Army and Navy and I would say the same thing.

-- No...I want ND, Army and Navy to play a full conference schedule eventually....but all three of those things are not going to happen

-- the only thing CUSA has more then the BE is dead weight...and that applys to football and especially bball...but I don't know how much in fighting there is going to be on our end...it seems the foundation for the split has been laid more then a yr a go...there is nothing the bball onlys can do come 2010 if we want to leave...

-- the BE can certainly survive if SU or WVU left...I think the more relevent question is do you want ECU to be in a Texas based SWC light for the next 30 yrs?


Jackson

Jackson,

I think you no where I want ECU to be and hope we will be. Saying CUSA is more stable is not a knock on the BE but simply a comparison of having aleague with all-sports versues not.

Saying if Memphis or ECU left was pointing to the fact of what you said with the SWCII comment. That is where CUSA is heading. I know that and ECU needs to be in an eastern based conference. But if ECU left and Memphis left they have a plan to replace those programs. Not saying that CUSA will neccessarily be stronger just more stable that is all.

My point is that the Big East is wasting valuable time with the current set up in my opinion. We do not know where the BE or CUSA will be in five years in the current arrangement. But to me the BE needs to split form the twelve team conference and get everybody playing one another and forming relatonships. Five years is a long time and the sooner the conference is set and a permanent foundaion is laid the better off the BE will be in five years. Spinning wheels and just hanging on for five years until the split could prove to be detrimental. CUSA will be playing and forming a conferene and the BE will be trying to figure out what way to go.

I hope you know I respect WVU and the BE but in my opinion the Big East should waste no time getting the new conference formed. An arrangement could be made sooner and I think it needs to be. That is all.

If my house was having foundation probelms would I

1) Patch it for five years and hope nothing happens and take the chance of the house collapsing.

or

2) Fix the problem even if it costs a little more now so that I won't have to deal with it again in five years and cost me double because I did not spend the money to begin with that would have corrected the problem permantly.

That is where I feel the BE is and needs to make a decision.