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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #21
 
Jackson1011 Wrote:
Quote:You are losing sight that we are talking about academic institutions. Memphis clearly has a different academic charter and some feel doesn't fit with Syracuse, Pitt, RU, and UConns'. There will be resistance from the NE schools.

-- Wouldn't it be possible to make it requirement that Memphis jump to tier 3 so many yrs after the invite....and frankly there not that far from UC, West Virginia, Louisville and South Flordia acadmeically..Louiville just became tier 3 very recently and there was no resistance to them



Jackson
No.

You don't make a conference requirement based off a media ranking of public universities.

One thing just occurred to me and that is if Louisville ever left the Big East for the SEC in the next big realignment.......Memphis would make very little sense in the Big East with Tennesse not being a contiguous state and way too far west.
06-30-2005 04:59 PM
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cardtopper Offline
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Post: #22
 
Whoa Cat Daddy,
Let's not jump the gun. Louisville has yet to play it's first competition as a member of the BEast. And if you're gonna dream then lets say it might still work cause UK might switch places with UofL and come to the Big East so the continuity would still be there...lol.
06-30-2005 05:54 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #23
 
cardtopper Wrote:Whoa Cat Daddy,
Let's not jump the gun.  Louisville has yet to play it's first competition as a member of the BEast.  And if you're gonna dream then lets say it might still work cause UK might switch places with UofL and come to the Big East so the continuity would still be there...lol.
Am I really jumping the gun that early......

1992: Major Realignment-The SEC expands to 12 for its first championship game.

1996: Major Realignment-The BigXII is formed.

1999: Major Realignment-The mountain schools of the WAC split to form the MWC.

2004:Major Realignment-The ACC expands with VT and Miami


Over the last decade in a half, there has been a major realignment in college every 4-5 years. I remember talking to a friend in 1998 who said he didn't expect any more realignments, and I informed him the WAC just split into two leagues. Miami and VT to the ACC for years was speculation on message boards....then it unbelievably happened.

All it takes is one move like Arkansas to the Big XII and Louisville could find itself in the SEC.
06-30-2005 06:23 PM
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nflsucks Offline
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Post: #24
 
Quote:One thing just occurred to me and that is if Louisville ever left the Big East for the SEC in the next big realignment.......Memphis would make very little sense in the Big East with Tennesse not being a contiguous state and way too far west.
They are already too far south and west with or without Louisville.
06-30-2005 09:47 PM
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JIM15068 Offline
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Post: #25
 
One poster questioned earlier how the fb schools' bb attendance compared to that of the bb schools'.

Here is a snapshot. I'll list the ranking, the school, and the attendance for 2005 rounded to thousands. This is only a one-year snapshot and not indicative of long-range performance. For example, Memphis (not a BE member) traditionally ranks in or around the top 10 but fell to #48 with a bad year (by Memphis standards.)

FB SCHOOLS
1. SYR, 23 (THOUSAND)
4. LOU, 19
15. CONN, 14
27. CIN, 11
36. PITT, 11
58. WVU, 9
77. RUTG, 7
NL. USF (NCAA ONLY RECORDS TEAMS IN THE TOP 100.)

BB SCHOOLS
21. MARQUETTE, 12
41. ND, 10
47. PROV, 10
55. DEPAUL, 9
60. NOVA, 8
68. S HALL, 8
69. GTWN, 8
86. SJU, 6
06-30-2005 10:50 PM
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99Tiger Offline
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Post: #26
 
JIM15068 Wrote:For example, Memphis (not a BE member) traditionally ranks in or around the top 10 but fell to #48 with a bad year (by Memphis standards.)
We fell because we reported the butts in seats instead of tickets sold. The FEF was sold out for every game. People just decided that it was easier to sit a thome than use the tickets they paid for.

reporting tickets sold - top 10 for the 5th year in a row
reporting actual attendance - #48 and a lot of kicking one's self in the ****** for not reporting tickets sold like everyone else does
06-30-2005 11:21 PM
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GunnerFan Offline
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Post: #27
 
<a href='http://www.bigeastboards.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=1046&start=0' target='_blank'>Here is an assessment</a> (once again) of basketball statistics, including a snapshot of performances from several expansion candidates. Jim, don't know what site your using but the PDF files from ncaasports.com (pick sport, then select "statistics") lists the attendances for EVERY school. USF averaged 3200 fans last year and has averaged about 4,200 a game for the past 5 seasons.

99Tiger, unless I'm mistaken the NCAA's official statistics have to be in the same format for everyone to allow for an apples to apples comparison. Given all the discussion about changes in how football attendance is being reported (also butts in the seats), I wouldn't be surprised if this is the new norm for everyone. I'd be willing to bet, however, that it was hardly a case of Memphis reporting it one way and most every other institution reporting it the other. That would be stupid, immoral, and/or outright illegal.

Kit-Kat, you've mentioned the "Arkansas-to-the-B12" thing several times now. A fixation of yours or inside information? For all the logistics behind the move (the campus is closer to more B12 institutions than most SEC schools) I can't see this being a possibility. To begin with, there's money, and lots of it. The SEC pays its members about $1-2M more per schoo than the B12, hence one of Texas' complaints of "Poor me!"l And while the University of Arkansas may be located closer to B12 territory, the State has a very strong rapport with the other southeastern states, particularly LA, TN and Mississippi. Arkansas also enjoys access to a larger recruiting area via the SEC, access to better and more accessible bowl games and the conference is more balanced politically versus the likely 2-3 headed monster a Texas-lead new conference would likely be. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I honestly feel this is one of those instances where that proposed move looks good on paper but fails in reality. Especially given LSU would (IMO) never leave the SEC and the Sugar Bowl, then I don't see how any configuration of a new SWC with Texas and Oklahoma would be able offer Arkansas more $ than it makes in the SEC.
07-01-2005 10:06 AM
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Psicosis Offline
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Post: #28
 
If everyone had switched to reporting butts-in-seats last year, there would have been a hell of a lot more precipitous "drops" than just ours.

Even Coach Cal called the athletic department out on it, recently, saying he had no idea why they did it but that it was clearly not the right decision. In tickets sold, we haven't been outside the top 10 in five years and top 25 in about a decade.
07-01-2005 12:37 PM
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cardtopper Offline
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Post: #29
 
So you're saying the NCAA just reported what the athletic department gave them which was filled seats instead of sold seats? Why would the Athletic Department sell themselves short? I can believe it cause I know Memphis is annually in the top ten. I did a post on another board listing the top twenty schools in bb attendance since 2000 and they were in the top ten or close to it most of those years. 03-confused
07-01-2005 12:45 PM
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GunnerFan Offline
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Post: #30
 
That would be extremely odd, if not outright stupid, by the university if they did that way. Those numbers are used to sell recruits and promote the program, as well as a ploy in dealing for TV contracts. If Memphis did screw the pooch I this one, heads should be rolling.
07-01-2005 12:51 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #31
 
Psicosis Wrote:If everyone had switched to reporting butts-in-seats last year, there would have been a hell of a lot more precipitous "drops" than just ours.

Even Coach Cal called the athletic department out on it, recently, saying he had no idea why they did it but that it was clearly not the right decision. In tickets sold, we haven't been outside the top 10 in five years and top 25 in about a decade.
The Memphis guys are correct on this--UM somehow "found Jesus" and reported actual. If Syracuse did that they would probably fall 2,000. Some of the December games against "Upstate Creampuff of the Week" draw only 2/3rds of the reported 17-18k listed.

Not sure why UM did that but if anything they need to go to USF "Wonderbra" method for reporting Attendance.
07-01-2005 12:53 PM
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Psicosis Offline
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Post: #32
 
Quote:So you're saying the NCAA just reported what the athletic department gave them which was filled seats instead of sold seats?&nbsp; Why would the Athletic Department sell themselves short?

Quote:That would be extremely odd, if not outright stupid
That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo. Stupidity is the only explanation. And trust me, there are plenty of examples of stupidity in the athletic department that make a "wow, they just totally pooped in their hats" explanation extremely feasible.

Quote:The Memphis guys are correct on this--UM somehow "found Jesus" and reported actual.&nbsp; If Syracuse did that they would probably fall 2,000.&nbsp; Some of the December games against "Upstate Creampuff of the Week" draw only 2/3rds of the reported 17-18k listed.

Not sure why UM did that but if anything they need to go to USF "Wonderbra" method for reporting Attendance.
Heh. If we reported like USF did, we'd average 25,000 a game, even though the Forum only holds 18,400.
07-01-2005 01:01 PM
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JIM15068 Offline
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Post: #33
 
While I think UM messed up using different reporting standards than others, I also feel that's the way everyone should have to report attendance. Attendance is the number of people who attend. Schools should not be permitted to report number of tickets sold. That's intentual misleading.
07-01-2005 06:10 PM
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omniorange Offline
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Post: #34
 
Quote:JIM15068 Posted on Jul 1 2005, 06:16 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While I think UM messed up using different reporting standards than others, I also feel that's the way everyone should have to report attendance. Attendance is the number of people who attend. Schools should not be permitted to report number of tickets sold. That's intentual misleading.&nbsp;

Well, there's two sides to every issue. An ND fan who buys Pitt season tickets in order to see one game - ND at Pitt - and then is unable to sell off the remaining games to another individual, skews the numbers of those actually interested in Pitt games overall when they report tickets sold versus actual attendance.

However, if a rabid SU fan is 2-3 hours away and a season ticket holder but can't make it for a Wednesday or Thursday night game because they work the next day or if on a weekend they can't make it due to inclement weather, why shouldn't the institution get to count them? They made a financial commitment to be there specifically because of their interest in that team, they just weren't able to due to scheduling or weather problems.

I can see both sides to the issue. And from my perspective I'd think the second instance is far more likely than the first, so I don't mind that tickets sold is used over actual body count.

Cheers,
Neil
07-01-2005 10:11 PM
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JIM15068 Offline
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Post: #35
 
omnicarrier Wrote:
Quote:JIM15068 Posted on Jul 1 2005, 06:16 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While I think UM messed up using different reporting standards than others, I also feel that's the way everyone should have to report attendance. Attendance is the number of people who attend. Schools should not be permitted to report number of tickets sold. That's intentual misleading. 

Well, there's two sides to every issue. An ND fan who buys Pitt season tickets in order to see one game - ND at Pitt - and then is unable to sell off the remaining games to another individual, skews the numbers of those actually interested in Pitt games overall when they report tickets sold versus actual attendance.

However, if a rabid SU fan is 2-3 hours away and a season ticket holder but can't make it for a Wednesday or Thursday night game because they work the next day or if on a weekend they can't make it due to inclement weather, why shouldn't the institution get to count them? They made a financial commitment to be there specifically because of their interest in that team, they just weren't able to due to scheduling or weather problems.

I can see both sides to the issue. And from my perspective I'd think the second instance is far more likely than the first, so I don't mind that tickets sold is used over actual body count.

Cheers,
Neil
It just seems to me that attendance should be people in seats, e.g. the number of people ATTENDING. The other scenario, tickets sold, indicates a financial commitment. This can be skewed by corporate ticket blocks, etc., and doesn't indicate the number of people who actually show up to support the team.

Naturally, things like inclement weather and rescheduling games can negatively impact the ATTENDANCE, but if people aren't there, then they just aren't in ATTENDANCE.

:)
07-02-2005 01:10 AM
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