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Conference Shake up to continue
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RIVER CITY PIRATE Offline
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<a href='http://http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/2005-06-28-conference-hopscotch_x.htm' target='_blank'>More shakups to come</a>
06-29-2005 07:53 AM
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3601 Offline
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Link won't work. What does it read?
06-29-2005 08:05 AM
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River City...I can't get the link to work...can you repost it or cut and past the article...thanks


Jackson
06-29-2005 08:05 AM
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Jackson1011 Wrote:River City...I can't get the link to work...can you repost it or cut and past the article...thanks


Jackson
It doesn't really say anything that hasn't been talked about on message boards for months...

Schools continue conference shake-up
By Steve Wieberg, USA TODAY
Change happens. Bob Lilly is enough of a realist to accept that.

Good Fit: "Sometimes you just have to ... put yourself in the best situation," TCU coach Gary Patterson says.
By LM Otero, AP

But there's still a bit of the romantic in the 65-year-old Football Hall of Famer, who as a kid in Texas used to tune into Southwest Conference broadcasts and drink in the colorful calls of radio legend Kern Tipps — to whom a fumble wasn't simply a fumble but a "malfunction at the junction."

Lilly recalls watching some games wide-eyed from the stands with his dad. Later he would star in them as an All-America tackle and future No. 1 draft pick at Texas Christian. "We had a big rivalry at the time with SMU ... and a pretty good rivalry with Rice, which during my era was a pretty good football team," he says. "Those were the good old days, in my opinion."

They're all gone now. The inimitable Tipps. The SWC. The rivalries — or at least the intraconference intensity that fed them.

TCU hasn't shared a league address with Southern Methodist or Rice in five years. The Horned Frogs haven't been able to work up a healthy competitive hate for anybody of late, calling four different conferences home in the past decade. Things were beginning to heat up with Louisville and Southern Mississippi in Conference USA, but Louisville bolted for the Big East and TCU is bound for the Mountain West.

Those are two of almost two dozen moves that become official Friday. They cap a dizzying round of conference hopping that has seen nearly one in five schools in the NCAA's top football-playing Division I-A change addresses in the last two years. It isn't merely realignment. It's a recasting.

The basketball-rich Atlantic Coast, which started it all by plucking Miami (Fla.) and Virginia Tech from the Big East two summers ago, now is a 12-team force in football, too. Miami, Tech and newly arriving Boston College were ranked at the end of last season, along with Florida State and Virginia.

The Big East took such a football hit that its automatic berth in the Bowl Championship Series might be shaky, but behold the power surge there in hoops. A league that already owns three of the last seven national championships brought in four new members — Louisville, Cincinnati, DePaul and Marquette, in addition to South Florida — that account for 100 NCAA tournament appearances, 19 Final Four berths and five national titles.

Conference USA might take some time to sort out. Nine schools, including TCU, are going. Six, including SMU and Rice, are coming.

Feelings were hurt, names were called and lawsuits were filed when the shakeout began. "At times, in different venues, it's been very difficult ... for me and also very difficult for our players and for our coaches," says Boston College athletics director Gene DeFelippo, looking back on the Eagles' final year in an affronted Big East.

"I think time has passed now. People are getting on with their lives and rebuilding conferences ... or building conferences, whatever."

Pacific-10 Commissioner Tom Hansen, whose league hasn't changed in nearly 30 years, suggests, "We need to step back and take a broader view and realize that these things do happen. It's kind of like we in California know that those earthquake plates are building up pressure and sooner or later, boom, something's going to snap. In college conferences, you've got different pressures building.

"It's pretty predictable that 10 years from now there'll be still more (movement)."

Geographically, a lot of what has happened makes sense. Boston College, a charter member of the Big East, is raising eyebrows in becoming the northernmost member of the ACC by more than 400 miles. It's 700 miles from North Carolina's Tobacco Road, the ACC epicenter. But Virginia Tech fits nicely, and Miami looks more natural in a Southern-leaning league.

The Western Athletic still is stretching to include Louisiana Tech. But in losing Rice, SMU, Texas-El Paso and Tulsa and picking up Idaho, Utah State and New Mexico State, it has shored up its Mountain and Pacific time zone identity.

Seeking a bigger challenge

Competitively, after going 30-8 and winning three championships in five years, Louisville had its sights set higher in football than Conference USA. So the Cardinals left for the Big East, which has automatic entry in the BCS for at least three more years.

TCU likewise sees more BCS possibilities in the Mountain West, where Utah ran the table last season and was able to break into the BCS' big-money bowl lineup. The league is hopeful of an automatic berth down the road.

"Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do to put yourself in the best situation," says Gary Patterson, heading into his sixth season as TCU football coach. "You have to look at our ultimate goal, and that was to give us the best opportunity to win — sometime and someday — a national championship. We felt like the Mountain West move was one that could do that because of the BCS."

The Southwest Conference, where the Horned Frogs won seven football titles and played in one Orange, two Sugar and six Cotton bowls, fell apart in 1995. The Frogs landed in the WAC, which split in half. They transferred to C-USA in 2001, but now it's being made over. A Mountain West invitation in January 2004 was too good to pass up.

"Change is inevitable," says TCU athletics director Danny Morrison, who moved into the job just two weeks ago.

"I happen to come from the Southern Conference (where he was commissioner for four years). It was founded in 1921 — it's the fourth- or fifth-oldest conference in America — and the Southeastern Conference split away in 1932. The ACC split away in 1953. So it's not like this (kind of) change hasn't occurred in history.

"It's a natural evolution. I think things will settle again and there'll be some stability. I really do think stability's important."

The Pac-10's Hansen, however, isn't alone in predicting further change. Later if not sooner.

Speculation persists about Baylor's future in the Big 12 and Arkansas' possible interest in moving there from the SEC. The Big 12 has had "general discussions ... on the changing landscape of conferences and its potential impact," Commissioner Kevin Weiberg says, "but there is no active plan or discussion regarding changing our own membership structure."

The Big Ten still is sitting on an odd number — 11 — which may not change unless the league finally can talk Notre Dame out of its football independence. That's an apparent non-issue until 2010, through which Notre Dame's $9 million-a-year contract with NBC has been extended.

What's the next move?

Will the Pac-10, static since Arizona and Arizona State joined in 1978, be obliged to follow the SEC, Big 12 and ACC and expand from 10 schools to 12? Even if it were, Hansen says, his league sees few if any attainable schools that come with a requisitely large TV market.

Most down-the-road suspicion involves the Big East, now a 16-member conference housing I-A and lower-division football schools and those that don't play football at all. "Sixteen is kind of unwieldy," former conference commissioner and College Football Association executive director Chuck Neinas says. "It's also, in this day and age, difficult to mix and match."

The 16 are contractually committed to the Big East and one another for five years, starting this year. But few will be surprised if Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Connecticut, Rutgers, Louisville, Cincinnati and South Florida eventually peel off to form their own I-A conference.

A question, too, is whether the next dominoes can be tipped with more sensitivity and decorum.

The verbal and legal brawl between the ACC and Big East still reverberates, and not only through athletics offices.

"We've created a lot of anger and anguish among institutions. A lot of friendships have been damaged if not lost," Hansen says. "College athletics and even higher education have been criticized — sometimes justly, sometimes maybe not so — for the process.

"It's a pretty ugly public process."

Contributing: • Check out the new college sports landscape with interactive conference maps at colleges.usatoday.com
06-29-2005 08:09 AM
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RIVER CITY PIRATE Offline
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Post: #5
 
Schools continue conference shake-up
By Steve Wieberg, USA TODAY
Change happens. Bob Lilly is enough of a realist to accept that.

Good Fit: "Sometimes you just have to ... put yourself in the best situation," TCU coach Gary Patterson says.
By LM Otero, AP

But there's still a bit of the romantic in the 65-year-old Football Hall of Famer, who as a kid in Texas used to tune into Southwest Conference broadcasts and drink in the colorful calls of radio legend Kern Tipps — to whom a fumble wasn't simply a fumble but a "malfunction at the junction."

Lilly recalls watching some games wide-eyed from the stands with his dad. Later he would star in them as an All-America tackle and future No. 1 draft pick at Texas Christian. "We had a big rivalry at the time with SMU ... and a pretty good rivalry with Rice, which during my era was a pretty good football team," he says. "Those were the good old days, in my opinion."

They're all gone now. The inimitable Tipps. The SWC. The rivalries — or at least the intraconference intensity that fed them.

TCU hasn't shared a league address with Southern Methodist or Rice in five years. The Horned Frogs haven't been able to work up a healthy competitive hate for anybody of late, calling four different conferences home in the past decade. Things were beginning to heat up with Louisville and Southern Mississippi in Conference USA, but Louisville bolted for the Big East and TCU is bound for the Mountain West.

Those are two of almost two dozen moves that become official Friday. They cap a dizzying round of conference hopping that has seen nearly one in five schools in the NCAA's top football-playing Division I-A change addresses in the last two years. It isn't merely realignment. It's a recasting.

The basketball-rich Atlantic Coast, which started it all by plucking Miami (Fla.) and Virginia Tech from the Big East two summers ago, now is a 12-team force in football, too. Miami, Tech and newly arriving Boston College were ranked at the end of last season, along with Florida State and Virginia.

The Big East took such a football hit that its automatic berth in the Bowl Championship Series might be shaky, but behold the power surge there in hoops. A league that already owns three of the last seven national championships brought in four new members — Louisville, Cincinnati, DePaul and Marquette, in addition to South Florida — that account for 100 NCAA tournament appearances, 19 Final Four berths and five national titles.

Conference USA might take some time to sort out. Nine schools, including TCU, are going. Six, including SMU and Rice, are coming.

Feelings were hurt, names were called and lawsuits were filed when the shakeout began. "At times, in different venues, it's been very difficult ... for me and also very difficult for our players and for our coaches," says Boston College athletics director Gene DeFelippo, looking back on the Eagles' final year in an affronted Big East.

"I think time has passed now. People are getting on with their lives and rebuilding conferences ... or building conferences, whatever."

Pacific-10 Commissioner Tom Hansen, whose league hasn't changed in nearly 30 years, suggests, "We need to step back and take a broader view and realize that these things do happen. It's kind of like we in California know that those earthquake plates are building up pressure and sooner or later, boom, something's going to snap. In college conferences, you've got different pressures building.

"It's pretty predictable that 10 years from now there'll be still more (movement)."

Geographically, a lot of what has happened makes sense. Boston College, a charter member of the Big East, is raising eyebrows in becoming the northernmost member of the ACC by more than 400 miles. It's 700 miles from North Carolina's Tobacco Road, the ACC epicenter. But Virginia Tech fits nicely, and Miami looks more natural in a Southern-leaning league.

The Western Athletic still is stretching to include Louisiana Tech. But in losing Rice, SMU, Texas-El Paso and Tulsa and picking up Idaho, Utah State and New Mexico State, it has shored up its Mountain and Pacific time zone identity.

Seeking a bigger challenge

Competitively, after going 30-8 and winning three championships in five years, Louisville had its sights set higher in football than Conference USA. So the Cardinals left for the Big East, which has automatic entry in the BCS for at least three more years.

TCU likewise sees more BCS possibilities in the Mountain West, where Utah ran the table last season and was able to break into the BCS' big-money bowl lineup. The league is hopeful of an automatic berth down the road.

"Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do to put yourself in the best situation," says Gary Patterson, heading into his sixth season as TCU football coach. "You have to look at our ultimate goal, and that was to give us the best opportunity to win — sometime and someday — a national championship. We felt like the Mountain West move was one that could do that because of the BCS."

The Southwest Conference, where the Horned Frogs won seven football titles and played in one Orange, two Sugar and six Cotton bowls, fell apart in 1995. The Frogs landed in the WAC, which split in half. They transferred to C-USA in 2001, but now it's being made over. A Mountain West invitation in January 2004 was too good to pass up.

"Change is inevitable," says TCU athletics director Danny Morrison, who moved into the job just two weeks ago.

"I happen to come from the Southern Conference (where he was commissioner for four years). It was founded in 1921 — it's the fourth- or fifth-oldest conference in America — and the Southeastern Conference split away in 1932. The ACC split away in 1953. So it's not like this (kind of) change hasn't occurred in history.

"It's a natural evolution. I think things will settle again and there'll be some stability. I really do think stability's important."

The Pac-10's Hansen, however, isn't alone in predicting further change. Later if not sooner.

Speculation persists about Baylor's future in the Big 12 and Arkansas' possible interest in moving there from the SEC. The Big 12 has had "general discussions ... on the changing landscape of conferences and its potential impact," Commissioner Kevin Weiberg says, "but there is no active plan or discussion regarding changing our own membership structure."

The Big Ten still is sitting on an odd number — 11 — which may not change unless the league finally can talk Notre Dame out of its football independence. That's an apparent non-issue until 2010, through which Notre Dame's $9 million-a-year contract with NBC has been extended.

What's the next move?

Will the Pac-10, static since Arizona and Arizona State joined in 1978, be obliged to follow the SEC, Big 12 and ACC and expand from 10 schools to 12? Even if it were, Hansen says, his league sees few if any attainable schools that come with a requisitely large TV market.

Most down-the-road suspicion involves the Big East, now a 16-member conference housing I-A and lower-division football schools and those that don't play football at all. "Sixteen is kind of unwieldy," former conference commissioner and College Football Association executive director Chuck Neinas says. "It's also, in this day and age, difficult to mix and match."

The 16 are contractually committed to the Big East and one another for five years, starting this year. But few will be surprised if Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Connecticut, Rutgers, Louisville, Cincinnati and South Florida eventually peel off to form their own I-A conference.

A question, too, is whether the next dominoes can be tipped with more sensitivity and decorum.

The verbal and legal brawl between the ACC and Big East still reverberates, and not only through athletics offices.

"We've created a lot of anger and anguish among institutions. A lot of friendships have been damaged if not lost," Hansen says. "College athletics and even higher education have been criticized — sometimes justly, sometimes maybe not so — for the process.

"It's a pretty ugly public process."
06-29-2005 08:16 AM
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GunnerFan Offline
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Slooooooooooooow day at the ol' USA Today newsdesk, I see. I can't fathom the tons of research this guy put into that totally insightful and unique perspective on NCAA conference realignments!

:rolleyes:
06-29-2005 09:17 AM
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Post: #7
 
GunnerFan Wrote:Slooooooooooooow day at the ol' USA Today newsdesk, I see. I can't fathom the tons of research this guy put into that totally insightful and unique perspective on NCAA conference realignments!

:rolleyes:
Agreed. Nothing we haven't heard before, then again it gets discussed here everyday.
06-29-2005 09:27 AM
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Post: #8
 
Arkansas to the Big 12 within the next two to five years looks more and more like it will happen. That will cause the SEC to go out and get another team, and more and more of this.
06-29-2005 08:26 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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And Louisville and West Virginia are mention as replacements for Arkansas. Aurburn likes Louisville.

Louisville and West Virginia could replace Vandy and Arkansas, but so could VA Tech.
06-29-2005 08:31 PM
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WacoBearcat Away
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Post: #10
 
How is Arkansas going to the Big 12? Unless the Big 12 expands into the Big 14, Arkansas will remain in the SEC.
06-29-2005 08:31 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Baylor may leave Big 12.
06-29-2005 08:31 PM
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Post: #12
 
Baylor is not leaving the Big 12. I don't know where people come up with this stuff.

This year Baylor athletes won the men's and women's single championships in tennis.

The Baylor men's tennis team finished 2nd in the country this year, after winning it last year.

The baseball made it to the final 4 in the college world series this year.

The women's softball team lost in the final game of their super-regional. It was one game short of the NCAA championship in softball.

The women's basketball team won the NCAA championship.

The track team continues to be very successful, and the Olympics point to this success.

The men's basketball team enjoyed a great recruiting year in basketball this year. Baylor will have a legitimate shot at the NCAA in two years.

Yes the football team struggles, but attendance is up in Waco. And Baylor's football recruitment continues to get better.

The Big 12 will not kick Baylor out of the Big 12.
06-29-2005 08:52 PM
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Post: #13
 
wacobearcat,

its not so much that baylor is going to leave willingly...but as temple was booted out of the big east so could be baylor's fate.

we are not making this up, read the usa today article. i mean u mentioned tennis and whatever else they have won....so what...those sports do not fund the Ath.Dept.

how is baylor in football????? u don't need to answer that, baylor is terrible in football. i don't know about b-ball but if they are kicked out of the big 12, maybe arkansas goes to b12 and louisville will probably be asked to join sec.

i just don't see wvu being invited...too far north.
06-29-2005 09:19 PM
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Post: #14
 
Wilkie01 Wrote:And Louisville and West Virginia are mention as replacements for Arkansas. Aurburn likes Louisville.

Louisville and West Virginia could replace Vandy and Arkansas, but so could VA Tech.
Louisville would make a ton of sense actually in the SEC. The SEC is kind of weak in basketball and could use a heavyweight. Natural rival with basketball power Kentucky.

Arkansas to the Big XII is really a no brainer......the school is right on the boarder of Oklahoma. The BigXII really needs to think about expansion as one of the weaker overall BCS conferences. Baylor is CUSA material.....TCU makes more sense in the Big XII.

The Big Ten should go behind Notre Dame's back and add Syracuse. If ND still wants in...go to 14 and throw Rutgers in the package deal.

The Big East is on the carving table for the ACC, Big Ten, and even the SEC.
06-29-2005 09:30 PM
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WacoBearcat Away
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Post: #15
 
Again,

Where is the evidence that Big 12 schools are unhappy with Baylor? There is no evidence to support this claim other than internet gossip. And I found the USA Today piece to be boring and uninformative.

The Temple analogy is not a good analogy as it relates to Baylor. Baylor is light years ahead of Temple in its commitment to Division I athletes. And Baylor is a charter member of the Big 12. Baylor has made huge investments in facilities and coaches. Baylor is a full-conference member while Temple was a football-member only. The Temple-Big East analogy just doesn't fit the Baylor-Big 12

There is some unhappiness in the Big 12, but it comes from the fact that some schools (Texas and Oklahoma) don't like the size of the conference, and its revenue-sharing policies. There was a thread a couple of months which hypothesized that Texas, Oklahoma, and Texas A & M would break away from the Big 12 and form its own 9 team conference which included both Baylor and Arkansas.

I guess if Lousville covets the SEC, this would be the way to get an invitation.

But Big 12 schools will not kick Baylor out of the Big 12. This is stupid talk.
06-29-2005 09:32 PM
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Post: #16
 
Just reading boards related to the razorbacks; it comes down to football and men's basketball. Isn't Baylor's men's basketball program in deep dodo with the NCAA? When was the last time Baylor had a winning season in football? Nice to see their baseball program reach the CWS, that is a plus, but football and men's basketball are the things that people pay attention to. I don't think Kentucky fans will be too happy with UofL in the SEC. That is a WVU vs. Marshall war going on in that state.
06-29-2005 09:41 PM
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Post: #17
 
You need to get your head out of the sand.
06-29-2005 09:43 PM
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WacoBearcat Away
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Post: #18
 
Wilkie,

When it comes to Baylor and the Big 12, you don't know what you are taking about. If I were you, I would stick to what I know about, which is Louisville and the Big East.

Again folks, where is your evidence to suggest that the Big 12 is unhappy with Baylor University as a member. SHOW ME.

Frankly, I would rather talk about Cincinnati and the Big East, but I do have considerable knowledge of the Big 12 since I am a faculty member at Baylor, and spent 8 years on Baylor's Faculty Athletics Council.
06-29-2005 09:49 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Well, the forces at the Big 12 are spreading rumors that Baylor is the comference weak link that had better shape up or ship out. I personal do not care what the Big 12 does. I am just repeating what I have heard or read about Baylor.
06-29-2005 10:18 PM
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Post: #20
 
I don't think Baylor is going to get kicked out either....if the Big 12 is on as shaky ground as some journalists are saying, an attempt by the northern teams to kick Baylor out may lead to the seperation of the conference and the reformation of the SWC...besides if Baylor was going to get kicked out the league would have done so when the school hit rock bottom a couple of yrs ago

-- Also I highly doubt Arkansas would make the jump even if all of this happened....the SEC makes more money then any other conference by far...pretty sure the Big 12 makes the least out of the 12 team leagues

-- If a spot would open in the SEC...I would expect that league to try to get Flordia St or maybe Miami....


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06-30-2005 07:39 AM
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