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Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid
http://outkickthecoverage.com/big-east-u...cs-bid.php
As the Big East attempts to stave off one raid after another, struggles to hold together a fractious lot of current members who are looking elsewhere, and battles to preserve its status as the sixth major football conference in America, much discussion has centered on the likelihood that a Big East devoid of Pitt and Syracuse may lose its automatic bid to the BCS. Presently the Big East has an automatic bid through the end of the 2013 season and right now the Big East along with the SEC, the ACC, the Pac 12, the Big 12, and the Big Ten all receive automatic bids to the big bowl bonanza for their conference champions. The rules have been this way since the formation of the BCS.

If the BCS acted to strip the Big East's automatic bid this would be the first retraction of an automatic bid in BCS history.

I hinted at this in Friday's column, but the BCS stripping the Big East's automatic bid is highly unlikely. Why? There are for two primary reasons that I'll unpack in the coming column: 1. the Big East would have a whopping insider lawsuit against the BCS that could spell antitrust doom for the cartel and 2. Boston College's athletic director told the Boston Globe that ESPN encouraged it to take Pittsburgh and Syracuse from the Big East.

The end result is that the Big East, even in its weakened state, isn't likely to lose its BCS bid. If the league isn't likely to lose its BCS bid then that's a powerful incentive it can dangle to other schools, in non-BCS leagues, to bring them on board as new members. Effectively, then, the BCS bid is a Big East safety net, the net that keeps the conference from plunging into national irrelevance.

How do we know this?

First, the BCS does not spell out criteria for leagues to be stripped of an automatic bid.

That's one of the biggest criticisms that non-BCS leagues have laid out against the BCS's existence -- that it's an impermissible anti-trust violation because it's an arbitrary agreement between six members to exclude everyone else. How, the non-BCS schools squeal, can there be automatic bids given out when there is no criteria to define why the six conferences were initially included?

Indeed, the only requirement for a BCS bid is that a league have at least eight members. (That's an FBS rule, by the way, not a BCS rule. A league also has two years to rectify any slippage in that regard). Right now the Big East is guaranteed eight members through the 2013 season since the league has said it will not allow Pitt or Syracuse to join the ACC until 2014. So there's no way that automatic bid is going anywhere for the 2012 and 2013 seasons. What's the criteria for your conference to be included in the BCS if you aren't already receiving an automatic bid? It's complicated and virtually impossible for a new conference to reach:

You can read those criteria here.

So what happens if the BCS threatens to pull the Big East's automatic bid?

If I'm the Big East I threaten to file a lawsuit and tell all. Since there are no established criteria for pulling a league's BCS bid, the Big East should view any attempt to take away its bid as impermissible. The primary value of Big East football right now is that BCS bid. If it vanishes then why would anyone want to be in the Big East? So the automatic bid is a definite property interest that is being relied upon by the league. Any rescission of that right is tantamount to collegiate sports war. If there is no established process to take away a right, how can that right be taken away?

Given all the antitrust scrutiny that the BCS is already under, can you imagine what a lawsuit's discovery and depositions would look like if the BCS attempted to pull the Big East's bid? The Big East was there at inception, it knows all the gritty details about how the six conferences came to power and what agreements existed between them to keep the vast majority of the bowl bonanza in their hands. Put simply, the BCS turns on one of its original six members at its own peril.

Do you think it's a coincidence that the Big East managed to keep its automatic bid despite losing Virginia Tech, Boston College, and Miami to the ACC? That poaching drove the conference down to eight weak members after reformation but it didn't hurt the Big East's automatic bid. The Big East remained at eight until the ACC came by again and took another bite out of the Big East to drive it down to six members. Once more the Big East will have to add new schools since eight schools is the minimum number of teams to be considered a conference under NCAA rules.

Once the Big East solidifies eight members, voila, the bid will still be there.

But that's not the only reason the Big East will retain its automatic bid.

This year the Big East also has an additional trump card -- ESPN's alleged role in ACC expansion.

This weekend an ACC expansion story you need to read came out.

(You lazy slackers didn't read it, did you?)

This was the money quote:

"The overwhelming force behind the move, (Boston College AD) DeFilippo insisted, was television money.

The ACC just signed a new deal with ESPN that will increase the revenue for each school to approximately $13 million. With the addition of Pittsburgh and Syracuse, said DeFilippo, another significant increase will come.

“We always keep our television partners close to us,’’ he said. “You don’t get extra money for basketball. It’s 85 percent football money. TV - ESPN - is the one who told us what to do. This was football; it had nothing to do with basketball.’"

ESPN has since denied its involvement in the ACC's decision to raid the Big East, but why would DeFilippo lie to the Boston Globe about ESPN's influence? Keep in mind that ESPN has an inherent conflict here since it has a television contract with both the Big East and the ACC. Encouraging the members of one conference to join another with the dangling benefit of an increased payout isn't just business as usual, it's a breach of ESPN's fiduciary duties to the Big East.

So while ESPN denies the Boston College AD's story, would ESPN executives maintain those denials under oath in the event of a lawsuit? Would other ACC luminaries who would also be deposed back up DeFilippo or would they deny ESPN's involvement as well? DeFilippo's comments offer more than enough smoke for a dangerous lawsuit to be filed by the Big East against ESPN and the BCS. The ESPN lawsuit could feature hundreds of millions of dollars in potential damages.

Indeed, this is a lawsuit that could break ESPN and the BCS. (I can't even begin to tell you how massive of a story this quote on ESPN's role is. It goes to the very heart of the ESPN conflict I've been telling you guys about since this whole mess took off two months ago. If you didn't read this column back in August, you need to read it now: ESPN is conflicted beyond belief).

Why does ESPN matter when it comes to the Big East's automatic bid?

Guess who has the current BCS television contract?

Yep, ESPN.

You think ESPN might be willing to guarantee the Big East's BCS bid going forward if the conference threatens to file a lawsuit against the TV network for violating ESPN's contractual obligations with the Big East? If I was the Big East commissioner I'd be floating this through back channels right now. Give me the okay on our automatic BCS bid or we'll spend more time letting lawyers unpack your role in ACC expansion. (And I'd also add that the Big East is welcome to leak those depositions to OKTC).

The Big East is keeping its bid, you can take that to the proverbial bank.

Once the Big East gets back to eight teams -- the league has even suggested it may go to 12 teams, presumably to stave off the potential loss of West Virginia or Louisville to the Big 12 -- then the Big East will retain its automatic BCS bid.

Fans and media will ask how in the world this happened, but OKTC readers will just nod their heads.

The Big East, weakest major conference in America, is still strong enough to survive because its got the lawsuit goods on the BCS and ESPN.

...

OKTC would like to thank y'all for choosing to stay informed on conference realignment here. We'll stay on top of the story going forward, but OKTC has broken more news than every major news site combined on conference realignment.

Read all of OKTC's conference realignment stories here.

SEC expansion candidates and discussion of why league won't expand in existing markets.

Why ESPN Is Dead Wrong: FSU and Clemson have no shot at the SEC.
10-11-2011 11:27 AM
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omniorange Offline
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RE: Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid
The Big East will keep the bid through 2013. But after that, the criteria from 2010-2013 will be used to determine if they receive an auto-bid from 2014 and beyond.

The loss of SU and Pitt won't hurt much in terms of the criteria overall. But losing TCU before they even got here and potentially losing WVU could. Now TCU's numbers can be replaced with Boise's, but there is no candidate available that will have the numbers that WVU will have.

Cheers,
Neil
10-11-2011 11:45 AM
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texasorange Offline
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RE: Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid
(10-11-2011 11:45 AM)omniorange Wrote:  The Big East will keep the bid through 2013. But after that, the criteria from 2010-2013 will be used to determine if they receive an auto-bid from 2014 and beyond.

The loss of SU and Pitt won't hurt much in terms of the criteria overall. But losing TCU before they even got here and potentially losing WVU could. Now TCU's numbers can be replaced with Boise's, but there is no candidate available that will have the numbers that WVU will have.

Cheers,
Neil


Or the Commissioners of the remaining BCS Conferences change the criteria because the representatives of the BCS Bowls and ESPN don't want the perception of small time schools playing in the BCS games.
10-11-2011 11:57 AM
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SmallVoice Offline
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RE: Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid
(10-11-2011 11:45 AM)omniorange Wrote:  The Big East will keep the bid through 2013. But after that, the criteria from 2010-2013 will be used to determine if they receive an auto-bid from 2014 and beyond.

The loss of SU and Pitt won't hurt much in terms of the criteria overall. But losing TCU before they even got here and potentially losing WVU could. Now TCU's numbers can be replaced with Boise's, but there is no candidate available that will have the numbers that WVU will have.

Cheers,
Neil

For the millionth time: TCU was never in the Big East. What we were going to count and what we ever counted are 2 different things.

And people can talk until they turn blue in the face about the Big East's numbers falling short, but unless they are able to find a suitable replacement, the Big East is the only possible sixth AQ conference. And there have to be six. Otherwise the BCS becomes quite literally a minority of schools and conferences enforcing their will on an unwilling majority.

The BCS system is morally wrong anyway, but the only way the top 5 conferences alone make themselves elite is for those 5 conferences to withdraw from what is now known as FBS football and create their own animal: Within the FBS, they are still a minority.
10-11-2011 11:59 AM
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New York Bull Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid
Why the Big East will lose AQ status:


The BCS bowls will not commit to taking league champ, particularly as SEC is pushing for more AQ access. The numbers don't matter cause we didn't lose numbers and adding houston, boise, etc would make us stronger. BCS isn't about strong football, it is about ... you guessed it!
10-11-2011 12:12 PM
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58-56 Offline
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RE: Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid
Quote:Otherwise the BCS becomes quite literally a minority of schools and conferences enforcing their will on an unwilling majority.

Nope. It's weighted voting. Per the NCAA's website:

"The Legislative Council is organized by conference with weighted voting. BCS conferences and Conference USA have three votes. The other FBS conferences have 1.5 votes. And the other Division I conferences have 1.2 votes."

Whistle harder. The graveyard's getting awfully close.
10-11-2011 12:15 PM
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Cardsshark Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid
None of the other AQ conferences will allow the precedent to be set that an conference can lose AQ status. When this is re-imagined in 2014, the BE will keep it's AQ. The only way the BE loses AQ is if the conference disbands. As long as the conference rebuilds with the best available candidates the BE will be fine.
10-11-2011 12:17 PM
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rulethirty Offline
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RE: Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid
(10-11-2011 11:59 AM)SmallVoice Wrote:  
(10-11-2011 11:45 AM)omniorange Wrote:  The Big East will keep the bid through 2013. But after that, the criteria from 2010-2013 will be used to determine if they receive an auto-bid from 2014 and beyond.

The loss of SU and Pitt won't hurt much in terms of the criteria overall. But losing TCU before they even got here and potentially losing WVU could. Now TCU's numbers can be replaced with Boise's, but there is no candidate available that will have the numbers that WVU will have.

Cheers,
Neil

For the millionth time: TCU was never in the Big East. What we were going to count and what we ever counted are 2 different things.

And people can talk until they turn blue in the face about the Big East's numbers falling short, but unless they are able to find a suitable replacement, the Big East is the only possible sixth AQ conference. And there have to be six. Otherwise the BCS becomes quite literally a minority of schools and conferences enforcing their will on an unwilling majority.

The BCS system is morally wrong anyway, but the only way the top 5 conferences alone make themselves elite is for those 5 conferences to withdraw from what is now known as FBS football and create their own animal: Within the FBS, they are still a minority.

Psssst.... The BCS is ALREADY a minority of schools enforcing their will on an unwilling majority.
10-11-2011 12:21 PM
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SmallVoice Offline
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RE: Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid
(10-11-2011 12:21 PM)rulethirty Wrote:  Psssst.... The BCS is ALREADY a minority of schools enforcing their will on an unwilling majority.

And you didn't gather from my statement that the BCS is "morally wrong" that I agree with you?
10-11-2011 12:22 PM
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blunderbuss Offline
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RE: Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid
(10-11-2011 12:21 PM)rulethirty Wrote:  Psssst.... The BCS is ALREADY a minority of schools enforcing their will on an unwilling majority.

False. Non-AQ's signed off in agreement with the BCS system. Not all of them but the majority that were happy to get scraps.
10-11-2011 12:25 PM
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RE: Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid
There are 120 FBS schools, and 68 are now in the BCS if you include TCU. I don't know where you get that they aren't in the majority. Even if the Big East gets booted, it will still be a 62-58 majority, and 62-59 after UMass moves up.
10-11-2011 12:56 PM
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Dub591 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid
My opinion:
BEast will have a bid through 2013; after that, if they don't have a credible team or two in the top 10 or whatever, look for the bid to go to elsewhere or disappear altogether. Then the BEast takes a step below the MAC and CUSA.
10-11-2011 01:00 PM
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General Mike Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid
UMass isn't the only school moving up. Texas State and UT-San Antonio are both on the way, plus you never know who else might decide to move up, I.e Montana, Montana State, appalachian State and Georgia State. Keeping the BCS AQs closer to 70 is the smart move.
10-11-2011 01:04 PM
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UCF08 Offline
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RE: Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid
How does the Big East ever fall below CUSA or MAC? They're going to take all the top teams from each, there is almost no scenario in which the Big East isn't the 6th best conference in the nation short of CUSA teams refusing to move.
10-11-2011 01:05 PM
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Louis Kitton Offline
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RE: Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid
(10-11-2011 12:12 PM)New York Bull Wrote:  Why the Big East will lose AQ status:


The BCS bowls will not commit to taking league champ, particularly as SEC is pushing for more AQ access. The numbers don't matter cause we didn't lose numbers and adding houston, boise, etc would make us stronger. BCS isn't about strong football, it is about ... you guessed it!

I don't see things going that direction.

What I anticipate the BCS will add a couple more bowls. Let's say for argument sake that the BCS keeps a 12 team Big East in the mix.

SEC (14)
ACC (14)
B1G (12)
PAC (12)
BE (12)
B12 (10)
Notre Dame

Total (75 BCS schools)

With the addition of basically 10 more schools into the BCS it makes sense to add 2 more BCS games (Cotton, Capital One) into the mix to support the additional schools.

Rose (PAC vs. B1G)
Fiesta (Notre Dame vs. at-large)
Cotton (B12 vs at-large)
Sugar (SEC vs at-large)
Capital (BE vs. at-large)
Orange (ACC vs. at-large)

The Big East with UCF/USF on board would be perfect for an Orlando based BCS game. If not, they give the BCS bowls good options for regional BCS games.

UCF/USF (Orange Bowl)
SMU/Houston (Cotton or Sugar Bowl)
Boise/Air Force (Fiesta Bowl)

I don't see how the BE is going to be removed from the picture because the way they are designing the conference its perfect for the BCS.
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2011 01:07 PM by Louis Kitton.)
10-11-2011 01:06 PM
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dogma Offline
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RE: Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid
(10-11-2011 01:00 PM)Dub591 Wrote:  My opinion:
BEast will have a bid through 2013; after that, if they don't have a credible team or two in the top 10 or whatever, look for the bid to go to elsewhere or disappear altogether. Then the BEast takes a step below the MAC and CUSA.

This is where you lost credibility
10-11-2011 01:38 PM
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RE: Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid
Am I the only person on the planet that thinks that the idea of BCS bowl games being more important than Non-BCS bowl games is silly. The only BCS bowl game that really matters is 1 vs 2. All of the other bowl games have little to no significance whether they are BCS or not. When the Gators have bad season, they always end up in the Outback Bowl in Tampa. I honestly prefer the Outback bowl to the BCS bowls because it's closer to home. Bowl games will only become relevant when we use them for playoff games between conference champs.
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2011 02:39 PM by TailGator.)
10-11-2011 02:36 PM
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nastybunch Offline
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RE: Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid
Guys, the Big East is dead, now it is about who will go down with the ship.
10-11-2011 02:38 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid
(10-11-2011 11:59 AM)SmallVoice Wrote:  
(10-11-2011 11:45 AM)omniorange Wrote:  The Big East will keep the bid through 2013. But after that, the criteria from 2010-2013 will be used to determine if they receive an auto-bid from 2014 and beyond.

The loss of SU and Pitt won't hurt much in terms of the criteria overall. But losing TCU before they even got here and potentially losing WVU could. Now TCU's numbers can be replaced with Boise's, but there is no candidate available that will have the numbers that WVU will have.

Cheers,
Neil

For the millionth time: TCU was never in the Big East. What we were going to count and what we ever counted are 2 different things.

And people can talk until they turn blue in the face about the Big East's numbers falling short, but unless they are able to find a suitable replacement, the Big East is the only possible sixth AQ conference. And there have to be six. Otherwise the BCS becomes quite literally a minority of schools and conferences enforcing their will on an unwilling majority.

The BCS system is morally wrong anyway, but the only way the top 5 conferences alone make themselves elite is for those 5 conferences to withdraw from what is now known as FBS football and create their own animal: Within the FBS, they are still a minority.

Explain to me how the BCS is morally wrong. The system doesn't prevent anyone from joining the FBS. Nor does it stop teams from going to bowl games. Calling it a cartel is fine and accurate, but the BCS in terms of the power it has does nothing morally objectionable.
10-11-2011 03:25 PM
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Gray Avenger Offline
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RE: Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid
(10-11-2011 01:05 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  How does the Big East ever fall below CUSA or MAC?

Don't know, but as an interesting sidenote:

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com...gs-week-6/
10-11-2011 04:23 PM
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