Shannon Panther Wrote:Academically speaking the contenders are: UMASS, Delaware, Georgetown, Temple, ECU, and UAB. The first three are top tier schhols the second three are tier 3 schools. Pretenders are: Marshall, Memphis, UCF, FAU, FIU, and USM. All the pretemders are 4th tier academically or a Master's University. No BCS Conference in the country has a tier 4 academic institution as a member or a Master's University.

How about Buffalo? They are a first tier school that has Division 1-A football and located in the Northeast. Or even Ohio, another first tier Division 1-A school located close to Pitt and WVU with a 13,000 seat basketball arena.

I think Hell would freeze over before any school south of Memphis would be accepted (USM, UAB, FAU, FIU). The only exception I would make to that is UCF and the Orlando market. Syracuse, UConn and Rutgers would never go for the deep south schools.

I know this might be unpopular with some people, but when the split happens, and I really believe it happen, I would add ECU and Memphis and stay at 10. That, of course, depends on how those schools are doing and how ECU and Memphis are doing. If the Big East schools are improving and Memphis continues to maintain their level of success it's a natural. And if ECU improves they bring a healthy fan base.

Kit-Cat Wrote:

KNIGHTTIME Wrote:Add UMASS and stay at 9.

You hear UMass, Delaware, and Villanova as 1-AA names bandied about on here, but not being a 1-A program is a severe disadvantage in positioning yourself for the Big East.

Vilanova as we all know is a private school in a market that currently has a public school Division 1-A program. UMass and Delaware are small market programs.

1.Temple-When the FB schools split they are going to need a representative in the Philly market in both basketball and football. Biggest market available for the Big East.

2.Buffalo-If the Big East was ever raided again, they would make a nice replacement team with their market. The basketball program at UB is now pretty good and they have a couple of Big East wins in football.

These two have a much better shot than the 1-AA teams at this point. Temple as commonly known was almost invited back into the Big East. Buffalo applied for Big East membership when UConn was upgrading to Division 1-A.

BUFFALO really had Syracuse's number in the late 1890's.

UMASS is 4-0 vs. BUFF since 1995 and NOVA is 3-0. Delaware has not played BUFF since the 1960's, during which BUFF was the better team.

Personally, I am not a proponent of adding 1aa teams. I think that would be the kiss of death in media perception. I would add Nova simply because they are a BIGEAST member. Nova is probably a little better than Temple at this point, but not by much.

Jim

Memphis, Marshall, ECU and Southern Miss are the remaining best football programs East of the Mississippi! So we just ****** one and stay 9 or we add 4 and go to 12, because this is our expansion pool, whether you like it or not!

Although it has excellent football potential I do not believe Memphis will ever be invited to the Big East for the same reason that UAB and Southern Mississippi will not be invited. The reason is that the Big East prefers to maintain its northeastern identity.

If Penn State, Notre Dame, or Maryland don't become interested in the Big East the conference will probably not expand beyond nine or ten teams. And, those two additional teams will either come from the Northeast or East Coast.

If the Big East was going to accept Memphis it would have taken Memphis over South Florida because Memphis has just as much potential and a much greater athletic tradition.

Wilkie01 Wrote:Memphis, Marshall, ECU and Southern Miss are the remaining best football programs East of the Mississippi! So we just ****** one and stay 9 or we add 4 and go to 12, because this is our expansion pool, whether you like it or not!

If that is the case wilkus, we will never expand past 9. As has been mentioned time and again if they don't add obvious value they aren't coming on board. This league, unlike CUSA, will not expand for the sake of expanding. That makes me extremely happy.

BearcatOne Wrote:Although it has excellent football potential I do not believe Memphis will ever be invited to the Big East for the same reason that UAB and Southern Mississippi will not be invited. The reason is that the Big East prefers to maintain its northeastern identity.

If Penn State, Notre Dame, or Maryland don't become interested in the Big East the conference will probably not expand beyond nine or ten teams. And, those two additional teams will either come from the Northeast or East Coast.

If the Big East was going to accept Memphis it would have taken Memphis over South Florida because Memphis has just as much potential and a much greater athletic tradition.

Dude, U need to chill because you're making way too much sense!

Stop it, you're killing some folks over here.

Wilkie01 Wrote:Memphis, Marshall, ECU and Southern Miss are the remaining best football programs East of the Mississippi! So we just ****** one and stay 9 or we add 4 and go to 12, because this is our expansion pool, whether you like it or not!

Are they really?

Winning percentage since 1950 of Big East hopefulls.....

Southern Miss .624
East Carolina .541
Memphis .499
Marshall .471

Compare to

Miami U. .659
Bowling Green .607
Central Michigan .594
Toledo .556


I have to agree that Southern Miss is one of the best of the rest programs but they have a serious geographic disadvantage. There are many MAC schools that have been successful and located close to the Big East and I see this board by and large neglecting the MAC for consideration.

MAC schools might not have the largest attendance averages but you'd be surprised at the quality facilities that you'll find in this conference. The budgets too are very comparable to the top CUSA schools these days in the MAC.

Kit-Cat Wrote:

Shannon Panther Wrote:Academically speaking the contenders are: UMASS, Delaware, Georgetown, Temple, ECU, and UAB. The first three are top tier schhols the second three are tier 3 schools. Pretenders are: Marshall, Memphis, UCF, FAU, FIU, and USM. All the pretemders are 4th tier academically or a Master's University. No BCS Conference in the country has a tier 4 academic institution as a member or a Master's University.

How about Buffalo? They are a first tier school that has Division 1-A football and located in the Northeast. Or even Ohio, another first tier Division 1-A school located close to Pitt and WVU with a 13,000 seat basketball arena.

Both Ohio and Buffalo draw worse than Temple. That enough should remove them from consideration. Add Buffalo's climate and who in God's name wants to play at Buffalo in November? I think the D1AA teams get a look only if the following conditions are met:

1. Several current teams have established themselves as top programs removing any doubt about our BCS status.

2. UConn has established themselves as top 40 team. If one can do it another can too.

3. There are no viable candidates from Div 1A. If UCF getsits academic and athletic house in order, I could see them getting an invite. Memphis has their work cut out for them. They need to improve their academics and maintain their athletics. I still think their geography will work against them. ECU likewise would be on an island if invited, but Terry Holland seems to have a handle on what he needs to do to be ready for the next round of expansion.

With all that said, keep your eye on the lawsuit the NIT has filed against the NCAA. If they win, it could open the door to the BCS conferences leaving the NCAA and forming their own athletic alliance. There are alot of variables to consider. Also by Conference bylaws, any current BE school can move up to D1A football and be admitted into the football conference automatically. When push comes to shove, might Villanova or Georgetown decide to cast their lot with the FB schools?

Shannon Panther,Jul 4 2005, 10:39 PM Wrote:How about Buffalo? They are a first tier school that has Division 1-A football and located in the Northeast. Or even Ohio, another first tier Division 1-A school located close to Pitt and WVU with a 13,000 seat basketball arena.

With all that said, keep your eye on the lawsuit the NIT has filed against the NCAA. If they win, it could open the door to the BCS conferences leaving the NCAA and forming their own athletic alliance. There are alot of variables to consider. Also by Conference bylaws, any current BE school can move up to D1A football and be admitted into the football conference automatically. When push comes to shove, might Villanova or Georgetown decide to cast their lot with the FB schools? [/QUOTE]
Georgetown doesn't have a facility to play football in. Even as the Big East school for Washington, DC playing its games at the MCI center they don't draw all that well for basketball. It would never work for G-town in football as they have an alumni base spread all over the world. Basketball...G-town is worthy of the all catholic basketball league after the split. Football isn't happening. Villanova is really in the same boat.

Buffalo did have 29,000 in the house when Syracuse came to town, and they've increased their basketball attendance dramatically in the past few years. Ohio usually draws better than Temple in both football and basketball so I don't see what your problem is.

They sure make a lot more sense than Delaware and UMass who are still in 1-AA and small market. Ohio is small market too, but they have facilities that are light years ahead of UMass and Delaware in BOTH football and basketball.

If you make the trip down to Athens this fall for the Pitt-Ohio game you'll figure out pretty quickly why you're playing us on the road instead of Delaware or UMass.

People can be snide and make jokes and post sarcastic photos all they want, but when the university Presidents sit down they will look at more than just recent football rankings. There is more to a conference than football rankings. A conference has to be a total package.

Upon the split, two of the most glaring needs for the Big East football schools are going to be consolidating the rest of the Northeast market (Philadelphia) and getting USF a logical travel partner to maximize travel budget efficiency (Orlando). They can evaluate 12 later.

Now if Louisville and Cincinnati wanted to be members of CUSA East, they would have just stayed there. They didn't. They joined the Big East knowing full well that its roots are in the Northeast. All of these Southern posts fit what works for all of these Southern schools.

But the Big East football schools have to do what is best for the Big East football schools as a whole. They can't worry about what is good for teams in CUSA East. Those teams down there need to put all their efforts into making their new conference the best it can be.

The best line-up for the future is ...

UConn & Syracuse
Rutgers & Temple
Pitt & West Virginia
Cincinnati[b] & Louisville[/b]
USF & UCF

Stop at 10 and evaluate 12 later ...

The only exception would be if somehow Syracuse did manage to pull off the unlikely feat of slinking off with Penn State to the ACC. Then, and only then, should Massachusetts be given help in moving to Division I-A to salvage that one last piece of the Northeast market.

The map with all the mini helmets really helped put the geography part of the equation in focus. Supports my prefernce for Marshall as the #9 team (assuming PSU and ND are not in the picture). They fit in the footprint of the NBE and are within reasonable travel distance of Pitt, WVU, UL and UC.

I would not add anyone for at least two full seasons (again excluding PSU and ND). I think USF has to step up big time before we even consider UCF. At least go to a couple of bowl games and snag a couple more solid recruiting classes.