...yeah...not so much says Reagan and Bush I policy person and Kemp and Paul staffer Bruce Bartlett.

Misrepresentations, Regulations and Jobs

They assert that Barack Obama has unleashed a tidal wave of new regulations, which has created uncertainty among businesses and prevents them from investing and hiring.

No hard evidence is offered for this claim; it is simply asserted as self-evident and repeated endlessly throughout the conservative echo chamber.

I guess you haven't heard about the BofA issue this week.

Oh, so a biased blogger couldn't find any evidence. Hmm, ever hear the expression "Absence of evidence is not an evidence of absence"?

Yeah, it's a logic thing, so I don't expect you to understand. Plus I love how you cite ignorance as proof of your beliefs. Pretty telling.

Anyway

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-26...-feet.html

http://www.hoover.org/publications/defin...icle/94346

http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/20...oyers.html

http://www.dinocrat.com/archives/2011/06...who-knows/

I've certainly heard business leaders... you know, the people who run these corporations and DO the hiring say it. If that isn't it, what is it? WHY aren't businesses hiring when Obama does what has been done and worked before (by Presidents from BOTH parties) and injects trillions into the system?

(10-04-2011 11:37 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I've certainly heard business leaders... you know, the people who run these corporations and DO the hiring say it. If that isn't it, what is it? WHY aren't businesses hiring when Obama does what has been done and worked before (by Presidents from BOTH parties) and injects trillions into the system?

Racism.

The answer is obvious. Why hire here when you can pay someone 1/10th of the wage in a foreign country. The American worker is still THE most productive worker on the planet he just has the deck stacked against him. It's just more cost effective to pay someone else where the standard of living is not up to ours. This shouldn't be a right or left thing. We've sold out our countrymen for 2 dollar t shirts, cheap cookware, and dollar store bargains. If you are college educated and had a job in 2007. Chances are you haven't felt this recession. If you are entering the labor market or don't have a college degree you've FELT this recession. It's only going to get worse from here until we start protecting American Interests and the American Worker over Corporate Interests and foreign workers.

(10-04-2011 12:21 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The answer is obvious. Why hire here when you can pay someone 1/10th of the wage in a foreign country. The American worker is still THE most productive worker on the planet he just has the deck stacked against him. It's just more cost effective to pay someone else where the standard of living is not up to ours. This shouldn't be a right or left thing. We've sold out our countrymen for 2 dollar t shirts, cheap cookware, and dollar store bargains. If you are college educated and had a job in 2007. Chances are you haven't felt this recession. If you are entering the labor market or don't have a college degree you've FELT this recession. It's only going to get worse from here until we start protecting American Interests and the American Worker over Corporate Interests and foreign workers.

So what you're saying is we have to make the USA more business friendly so companies dont' go to counties that don't have our high taxes, regulations, and suffocating unions.

(10-04-2011 12:21 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The answer is obvious. Why hire here when you can pay someone 1/10th of the wage in a foreign country. The American worker is still THE most productive worker on the planet he just has the deck stacked against him. It's just more cost effective to pay someone else where the standard of living is not up to ours. This shouldn't be a right or left thing. We've sold out our countrymen for 2 dollar t shirts, cheap cookware, and dollar store bargains.

If workers' wages was the biggest factor at play, and what you say about American productivity is true, then companies would not really be saving anything after you factor in the decreased productivity, employee training, shipping costs, etc. from operating offshore. That tells you there are other things affecting their decisions.

(10-04-2011 12:21 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The answer is obvious. Why hire here when you can pay someone 1/10th of the wage in a foreign country. The American worker is still THE most productive worker on the planet he just has the deck stacked against him. It's just more cost effective to pay someone else where the standard of living is not up to ours. This shouldn't be a right or left thing.

You can't look past automation either. That's the elephant in the room that no on wants to talk about. The US manufactures quite a bit, but it's more automated, which means lower prices and often higher quality.

I've not heard any concede that fact.

Quote:We've sold out our countrymen for 2 dollar t shirts, cheap cookware, and dollar store bargains. If you are college educated and had a job in 2007. Chances are you haven't felt this recession.

I don't know that to be true. Plenty of laid off college folks. Those foreclosures are happening to college grads.

Quote: If you are entering the labor market or don't have a college degree you've FELT this recession. It's only going to get worse from here until we start protecting American Interests and the American Worker over Corporate Interests and foreign workers.

Corporate interests? You mean the ones that provide jobs? Bashing them is not the answer.

(10-04-2011 12:21 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The answer is obvious. Why hire here when you can pay someone 1/10th of the wage in a foreign country. The American worker is still THE most productive worker on the planet he just has the deck stacked against him. It's just more cost effective to pay someone else where the standard of living is not up to ours. This shouldn't be a right or left thing. We've sold out our countrymen for 2 dollar t shirts, cheap cookware, and dollar store bargains. If you are college educated and had a job in 2007. Chances are you haven't felt this recession. If you are entering the labor market or don't have a college degree you've FELT this recession. It's only going to get worse from here until we start protecting American Interests and the American Worker over Corporate Interests and foreign workers.

Commie.

(10-04-2011 12:32 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(10-04-2011 12:21 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The answer is obvious. Why hire here when you can pay someone 1/10th of the wage in a foreign country. The American worker is still THE most productive worker on the planet he just has the deck stacked against him. It's just more cost effective to pay someone else where the standard of living is not up to ours. This shouldn't be a right or left thing. We've sold out our countrymen for 2 dollar t shirts, cheap cookware, and dollar store bargains. If you are college educated and had a job in 2007. Chances are you haven't felt this recession. If you are entering the labor market or don't have a college degree you've FELT this recession. It's only going to get worse from here until we start protecting American Interests and the American Worker over Corporate Interests and foreign workers.

So what you're saying is we have to make the USA more business friendly so companies dont' go to counties that don't have our high taxes, regulations, and suffocating unions.

Yeah, he is saying that we need to lower the taxes on the rich, get rid of pollution regulations and workplace regulations and get rid of the minimum wage. Oh wait. thats the tea party platform. Make us like China(except instead of government control, we are controlled by big corps(of course, that s sooo much better).

Fries are burning Rob. Get back to work.

(10-04-2011 01:03 PM)Paul M Wrote:  Fries are burning Rob. Get back to work.

Not really sure what ther hell you are talking about.

(10-04-2011 12:50 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Yeah, he is saying that we need to lower the taxes on the rich,
I guess your idea of the top tax payers paying 90+% of all income taxes is fair while 50% pay nothing.

get rid of pollution regulations
No, just the new restrictive ones that are killing jobs.

and workplace regulations
Which ones might those be?
and get rid of the minimum wage.
When was that proposed?

Oh wait. thats the tea party platform.
I thought violent racism was their platform.

Make us like China
Do you mean our economy grows and jobs are created? I'm all for it.

(except instead of government control, we are controlled by big corps(of course, that s sooo much better).
So you prefer to be controlled by the government you routinely criticize?

(10-04-2011 12:37 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

(10-04-2011 12:21 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The answer is obvious. Why hire here when you can pay someone 1/10th of the wage in a foreign country. The American worker is still THE most productive worker on the planet he just has the deck stacked against him. It's just more cost effective to pay someone else where the standard of living is not up to ours. This shouldn't be a right or left thing. We've sold out our countrymen for 2 dollar t shirts, cheap cookware, and dollar store bargains.

If workers' wages was the biggest factor at play, and what you say about American productivity is true, then companies would not really be saving anything after you factor in the decreased productivity, employee training, shipping costs, etc. from operating offshore. That tells you there are other things affecting their decisions.

Actually, it shows a lack of understanding of what goes into BUSINESS productivity as opposed to TEXTBOOK productivity. If the American Worker WERE the most productive, then his product would be the cheapest. The cost of labor goes into any appropriate measurement of specific productivity. Heck, even quality factors in there, though that is obviously somewhat subjective. I believe that Korean built Kias and Hyundais have among the best warranties. While not a direct measurement of quality, certainly part of the equation. Obviously, American efficiency can't make up for the difference in wages and compliance (taxes, regulation etc)... even considering shipping, time (inventory "on demand") and quality because if they could, companies wouldn't invest overseas. We MAY be the most efficient (product per hour), and among the most productive in terms of output per natural resource input... but I don't think we're the most productive in terms of amount of output per cost of input. If we were, our products would be among the cheapest, no?

You talk about selling out our countrymen and the difference in standard of livings, yet don't mention that the Chinese live 3 generations to a 1200sf house without a car and everyone in America has a flat screen, a car and a cell phone... and wants to live on their own as soon as they get out of college and forever. It's not "industry's" job to ensure your chosen standard of living when most of the rest of the planet lives quite happily on much less. People have sold THEMSELVES out. They want the $2 T-shirt so they can buy those other things. If you didn't buy it, business wouldn't sell it.

Whoever you open up trade with look at their middle class. That will soon be your middle class. They only thing that kept the charade up for as long as it did was people using their home equity as ATM's. Sprinkle in some gimmicks we can do as the world's reserve currency for some effect too. It's not industry's job to ensure a standard of living. It is incumbent upon our govt. to make sure the playing field is level.

And, as if on cue

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology...r_job.html

I like this from the comment section

Adam

As robots do more of the work, can we as a species PLEASE learn to relax. If a robot can do 50% of my job, why can't I then work 20 hours a week and still have society agree that I have contributed enough to deserve a middle class lifestyle. After all that's all the money is, a social agreement that the person with money has contributed enough to deserve the things that the money can buy. So if society needs less from humans to still thrive at a high level, why can't the amount that we need to contribute to the greater society be lessened? I for one, would enjoy spending more time with family and friends.

good article Torch.


btw Adam's a damn commie!

(10-04-2011 03:24 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  good article Torch.


btw Adam's a damn commie!

Adam alludes to a challenging philosophical/religious discussion on the role of work and the purpose of man. The fact that it covers everything from ethics to economics, from technology to theology suggests to me it's a pretty fundamental discussion.

I can tell you from experience that only a thin slice of the Christian Church in the US even understands the question, let alone is prepared to offer answers.

Outside of that, most answers are like Adams, there is some logic there, but I don't think his reasoning proves valid.