VaCardinal,Jul 30 2005, 01:55 PM Wrote:

tigercat,Jul 30 2005, 09:18 AM Wrote:[QUOTE=tigercat,Jul 29 2005, 08:34 PM]
To state not many Memphis fans support the Liberty is an ignorant statement or out and out lie.

AutoZone (Pitt Hyde) is a bigtime Memphis booster, and unless it would be harmful to the company will stand beside Memphis (whether you believe this or not is not significant), so wait and see what their response will be. Memphis fans will not support the Liberty if they drop C-USA and that will soon be evident if it happens.

I'm sure the folks living in Memphis support the game to some degree. The question is, who would the people of Memphis rather see, a C-USA team or an SEC team? What I know of Tn is that it is a big-time SEC state. I don't know who the majority of folks in Memphis prefer, but I would be surprised if the average college FB fan in Memphis, willing to go aout and buy a ticket, would prefer to buy a ticket to see a C-USA team (even if it is the champ) rather than an SEC team (even if it is #6). My guess is that the overwhelming majority would be more likely to go watch the SEC team.

The possibility of UM playing in the game is off-set by the possibility of UT playing in the game, and UT fans would spend a LOT more money than UM fans since they would be filling every hotel room and bar in town.

And there is little question that any SEC team would bring many thousands to Memphis for the LB, the same can't be said for C-USA except for a couple of teams (USM, ECU, probably Marshall and UTEP). Plus the risk of some disaster from C-USA looms - how many fans would UH or UAB, for example, bring? Very few relatively, and those are two teams that could win C-USA. I know the LB can now take who they want, but that raises a whole new set of problems.

This is a bad deal for C-USA. And if the LB drops you then I don't blame you for being argry beyond belief. The writer of the article is right, this is simply a move by the SEC to keep a heel on your throat. And I don't like it. But there is little doubt that the LB is more than willing to leave C-USA, or else they would be already locked up.

_________________________________________REPLY_____________________________
The team the SEC would bring to Memphis would be a 6-8th place team; their fans would most likely be angry and disapointed with their season and not travel to what they perceive as a lesser Bowl. Also, there is a good chance the team filling that slot from the SEC could be Arkansas, Ole Miss, Mississippi State or LSU. These would be a large group of day trippers and this can be shown from experience. There would be little intereset from the 4th selection down in the BE I believe. Pitt didn't bring many to the LB nor did Syracuse (not a knock, because that is a haul and the Bowl is perceived lower than what their fans hoped for).

As to C-USA attendance and support, even the years the Cardinals were not playing the attendance was very good. Memphis in general, casual(SEC and other conferences alumni) fans living in Memphis, and core U of Memphis fans do support the Bowl very well. There is better chances for a Memphis, USM, UTEP, Marshall and ECU (they'll be back soon) being in the Bowl than some of the traditional lower rung schools (I realize Memphis has only shown success for two seasons, but we have good reason to think this will continue, just as UL thinks their recent successes will continue).

UAB seems to be doing better attendance wise; it is rough competing with Auburn and Alabama in literally their backyard, but winning seems to be helping them. I think Tulane and Houston brought decent support when they were in the Liberty. Tulsa, is a doable trip and they have decent support. SMU, Rice? I think the fact they made a Bowl would elate their fans and they would have decent support. To answer your question, yes C-USA has supported the Liberty and there is no reason to think we cannot and that we will not continue that support.

As to the Liberty not already "being Locked up"; did you ever think the reason may be that the Liberty is trying to get the best match FOR C-USA, thus they've had an open door to ALL conferences, and listened to ALL pitches? It just might be they have never intended to drop C-USA, but being the good business people they are, they want to make sure they cut the best deal possible for BOTH C-USA and THE LIBERTY BOWL? Most of the noise has been from $EC anf BE sources. The Liberty folks have kept their cards close to the vest.

IF the Liberty drops C-USA/Memphis, the Liberty Bowl will soon go on life support, and will fail in Memphis.

tigercat Wrote:AutoZone (Pitt Hyde) is a bigtime Memphis booster, and unless it would be harmful to the company will stand beside Memphis (whether you believe this or not is not significant), so wait and see what their response will be. Memphis fans will not support the Liberty if they drop C-USA and that will soon be evident if it happens.

Cat, in reading what LYes says, it's pretty evident that he doesn't know who Pitt Hyde is or that LYes probably bought his food from Pitt at one time in his life. It's unfortunate that some folks believe what he says and don't bother to check out the facts.

In his case we have a veteran of 3 (again 3) Liberty Bowl games and he's an expert. Previously he had stated that the worst weather in a football game was a poorly attended LB game with the cards and Michigan State. That game ranks significantly behind the ND/BC, UCLA/ALA, and others in the "cold factor." If that was the worst weather he's sat through at a football game, he needs to actually go to games and not watch them on TV. If that wasn't enough, he also claims that there were 15,000 card fans (that's right 15,000) stranded on the Interstate in ice and couldn't make it to the game. 15,000 people straded on ice between louisville and Memphis would have had more publicity than Hurrican Elvis. It's just one absurd statement after another from a 3 game (again 3 game) veteran.

LYes, come back to Memphis and attend 15 or more Liberty Bowls and then you will have some credibility among veteran Liberty Bowl attenders. Otherwise, your words carry no credibility among those who have been to the bowl numerous times and have an understanding of who Auto Zone really is. Meanwhile understand that almost no bowl can exist without local support and that thousand of Memphis families have had tickets to the LB since it moved from Atlantic City and that thousands freely give their time and efforts to make it a friendly place so that teams like louisville can attend.

Guys relax these are all internet posts that in the end mean nothing, the Liberty Bowl will soon announce their pairings and no doubt they will choose whoever they think will be the best deal for them.
Until then we can all turn blue or green or red LOL, posting reports saying this n that but nothing is set.

Cubanbull Wrote:Guys relax these are all internet posts that in the end mean nothing, the Liberty Bowl will soon announce their pairings and no doubt they will choose whoever they think will be the best deal for them.
Until then we can all turn blue or green or red LOL, posting reports saying this n that but nothing is set.

You're right. There have just been several incorrect statements about the LB by one poster in particular that didn't make sense at all. In the end, however, what you say is exactly correct.

oldtiger Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:Third, I can almost positively state that Auto Zone is the man behind the curtain going after the SEC/BE game.

Oh geez, another Liberty Bowl tidbit from LYes. Once again, good grief man.......source please?

Simple logic and common sense.

oldtiger Wrote:

tigercat Wrote:AutoZone (Pitt Hyde) is a bigtime Memphis booster, and unless it would be harmful to the company will stand beside Memphis (whether you believe this or not is not significant), so wait and see what their response will be.  Memphis fans will not support the Liberty if they drop C-USA and that will soon be evident if it happens.

Cat, in reading what LYes says, it's pretty evident that he doesn't know who Pitt Hyde is or that LYes probably bought his food from Pitt at one time in his life. It's unfortunate that some folks believe what he says and don't bother to check out the facts.

In his case we have a veteran of 3 (again 3) Liberty Bowl games and he's an expert. Previously he had stated that the worst weather in a football game was a poorly attended LB game with the cards and Michigan State. That game ranks significantly behind the ND/BC, UCLA/ALA, and others in the "cold factor." If that was the worst weather he's sat through at a football game, he needs to actually go to games and not watch them on TV. If that wasn't enough, he also claims that there were 15,000 card fans (that's right 15,000) stranded on the Interstate in ice and couldn't make it to the game. 15,000 people straded on ice between louisville and Memphis would have had more publicity than Hurrican Elvis. It's just one absurd statement after another from a 3 game (again 3 game) veteran.

LYes, come back to Memphis and attend 15 or more Liberty Bowls and then you will have some credibility among veteran Liberty Bowl attenders. Otherwise, your words carry no credibility among those who have been to the bowl numerous times and have an understanding of who Auto Zone really is. Meanwhile understand that almost no bowl can exist without local support and that thousand of Memphis families have had tickets to the LB since it moved from Atlantic City and that thousands freely give their time and efforts to make it a friendly place so that teams like louisville can attend.

Link me the claim of 15,000 stranded on the roads. You'll have a hard time finding it because I never said it.

As for the weather it was a full on ice storm in 1993. I'm not sure what’s so hard to believe about it being the worst weather I've ever attended a game in. I've sat through snow and torrential rain but nothing beats the ice storm at the Liberty Bowl. Clue me in.

In case you were counting that's 4 Liberty Bowls.

No Trolling...just facts mam.....

L-Yes I'll use simple logic and disagree with you on Memphis Support. Several games featured teams that have a rep for not traveling well but yet the game had over 40,000 attendance. Where did they come from?

<a href='http://www.libertybowl.org/navigation-content-results' target='_blank'>Liberty Bowl Attendance</a>

I keep seeing people allude to fact that the BIGEAST wouldn't bring any fans, and then they mention SYRACUSE AND PITT. I really don't understand this line of reasoning. Here are the attendance figures from the 90's, and SYR AND PITT seem to be right in line.
12/31/1999 Southern Miss 23 - Colorado St 17 56,570
12/31/1998 Tulane 41 - BYU 27 52,192
12/31/1997 Southern Miss 41 - Pittsburgh 7 50,209
12/27/1996 Syracuse 30 - Houston 17 49,163
12/30/1995 East Carolina 19 - Stanford 13 47,307
12/31/1994 Illinois 30 - East Carolina 0 46,212
12/28/1993 Louisville 18 - Michigan St 7 21,097
12/31/1992 Ole Miss 13 - Air Force 0 47,602
12/29/1991 Air Force 38 - Miss St. 15 61,497
12/27/1990 Air Force 23 - Ohio St. 11 32,262
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I.also, get the impression that some are angry at the BE for not wanting to play CUSA. That's not the case. The BE is willing to play cusa. It's the SEC who is not. The LB seems intent on getting the SEC.

Jim

According to a West Virginia poster using Lexis-Nexis as his source, here are SU's and Pitt's bowl numbers:

SU

92/93 - Fiesta - 6000 tickets sold thru SU, 8500 total
95/96 -Gator - 4000 tickets
96 - Liberty - 5000 tickets
97 - Fiesta - 6500 tickets sold thru SU, ~ 9000 total
98/99 - Orange - 11,000 sold thru SU, ~ 15000 total
99 - Music City - 2000
01 - Insight - 2000
04 - Tangerine/Champs - 5000

Pitt

97 - Liberty - 6000
00 - Insight - 4000
01 - Tangerine - 3000
03 - Tire - 5000
04/05 - Fiesta - 9000

Apparently, the bigger BCS-type Bowls keep track of fan rooting interest when the ticket is not purchased through the schools themselves.

SU's ticket sales figures look about right based upon what I have been told from SU fans that do more traveling than I do - except for the Gator. That looks off to me.

A New Year's Day Bowl in Florida I think would and did attract more than 4000 simply based upon the numbers that went to the Orange Bowl a few years later. Not to mention that a VT/Clemson match-up in the Gator drew less than 1000 more fans than a Syracuse/Clemson match-up did. Everyone knows the Jokies travel between 20,000-25,000 and that Clemson is a good traveling team as well. No way Jacksonville compensated with an additional 20,000+ local fans for our game. Local fans habits just don't do huge swings like that. 10,000 - yeah that's possible. Much more than that is starting to stretch credibility.

The 01 Insight was probably higher as well, since SU has alum in that area. But I remember many SU fans were upset that VT got the Gator over the Orange when we finished 6-1 in the BE that year while the Jokies were only 4-3 (not to mention we beat them head-to-head as well).

Following future trends in this area will be important for the BE.

Cheers,
Neil

Neil

Interesting numbers. The games I have been too. 89 Hall of Fame Bowl I figur we had 15-20k cheering for SU. 99 Music City Bowl it was the worst--maybe 1500-2000 SU fans, 01 Insight Bowl Definitely more than 2000 SU fans (AZ residents from the NE showed up) and I figure we had about 10k cheering for SU.

When I say cheering I mean just that--can't tell whether they were true SU fans or not.

BTW, Neil I was off on SU's season tix total for 2005. Only about 27k sold so far, my University connection feels 30k is a worthy goal. Should end up about 5k more seasons sold than 04. A step in the right direction.

[QUOTE]In his case we have a veteran of 3 (again 3) Liberty Bowl games and he's an expert. Previously he had stated that the worst weather in a football game was a poorly attended LB game with the cards and Michigan State. That game ranks significantly behind the ND/BC, UCLA/ALA, and others in the "cold factor." If that was the worst weather he's sat through at a football game, he needs to actually go to games and not watch them on TV. If that wasn't enough, he also claims that there were 15,000 card fans (that's right 15,000) stranded on the Interstate in ice and couldn't make it to the game. 15,000 people straded on ice between louisville and Memphis would have had more publicity than Hurrican Elvis. It's just one absurd statement after another from a 3 game (again 3 game) veteran.[QUOTE]

All I can say about this is that you apparently have no idea what the weather was like for that game. Absolutely the worst I've ever seen. "Cold factor".....that's child's play compared to the ice storm that surrounded this game. I think UofL bowl attendance speaks for itself, if there was only 21K there for UofL/Mich State, there was a reason. The reason was not just bad weather, but DANGEROUS weather.

Re 15k stranded, I have no idea if that is correct, but it was reported by the television crew as a fact. I had a copy of the game for years.

I think that looking at how many tickets are sold FROM the school's athletic office in order to judge that school's drawing power may have a flawed premise. This would definitely favor schools that are isolated from metropolitan areas and discriminate against schools who might have alum scattered across the country.

For example, when Pitt played Texas in the Bluebonnet Bowl, I bought my tickets from a ticket outlet. Does that mean I was neutral and favored no school? Does it mean I was for Texas since I bought the tickets in Texas?

Truth is, if a game has a good crowd, everything's okay. In relation to the Liberty Bowl, both PITT AND CUSE had a good crowd for those games. Now, I do imagine that if Memphis ever got into the LB, they would have a great crowd. Any school playing in their home town in a bowl game who doesn't sell out might need to consider giving up the sport.

Memphis actually has good attendance, which is a major reason I've advocated them for a possible BE expansion team. However, I can' sit back and listen to some people say that we don't want the BE in the LB due to the attendance of Pitt and Cuse. They not only did well at the LB, but they also outdraw Memphis during the regular season.

I simply can not understand why these posters are attacking BE teams when it's the SEC who doesn't want to play them.

Jim

Quote:JIM15068 Posted on Jul 30 2005, 10:42 PM
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I think that looking at how many tickets are sold FROM the school's athletic office in order to judge that school's drawing power may have a flawed premise. This would definitely favor schools that are isolated from metropolitan areas and discriminate against schools who might have alum scattered across the country.

For example, when Pitt played Texas in the Bluebonnet Bowl, I bought my tickets from a ticket outlet. Does that mean I was neutral and favored no school? Does it mean I was for Texas since I bought the tickets in Texas?

Truth is, if a game has a good crowd, everything's okay. In relation to the Liberty Bowl, both PITT AND CUSE had a good crowd for those games.

I agree with you on the ticket scenario, but I don't understand what the solution is other than have the institution create 'special' deals that will make buying the tickets through them more inviting.

Cheers,
Neil

JIM15068 Wrote:I simply can not understand why these posters are attacking BE teams when it's the SEC who doesn't want to play them.

Jim

I agree. I think a big part is battered fan syndrome. The SEC is truly Scum. Sorry Ethics Conference. Sure, Everybody Cheats ... or whatever can be made in the simplest of insults.

Louisville has a point system that serves as a hierarchy for preferred seating, tournament tickets, etc. Even buying regular season road game tickets adds to your standing, and your points are for all sports, so football/basketball supporters increase their chances of basketball tourney tickets in MSG, for instance. I think that's one way to make buying from the ticket office more appealing.

JIM15068 Wrote:I keep seeing people allude to fact that the BIGEAST wouldn't bring any fans, and then they mention SYRACUSE AND PITT. I really don't understand this line of reasoning. Here are the attendance figures from the 90's, and SYR AND PITT seem to be right in line.
12/31/1999 Southern Miss 23 - Colorado St 17 56,570
12/31/1998 Tulane 41 - BYU 27 52,192
12/31/1997 Southern Miss 41 - Pittsburgh 7 50,209
12/27/1996 Syracuse 30 - Houston 17 49,163
12/30/1995 East Carolina 19 - Stanford 13 47,307
12/31/1994 Illinois 30 - East Carolina 0 46,212
12/28/1993 Louisville 18 - Michigan St 7 21,097
12/31/1992 Ole Miss 13 - Air Force 0 47,602
12/29/1991 Air Force 38 - Miss St. 15 61,497
12/27/1990 Air Force 23 - Ohio St. 11 32,262
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I.also, get the impression that some are angry at the BE for not wanting to play CUSA. That's not the case. The BE is willing to play cusa. It's the SEC who is not. The LB seems intent on getting the SEC.

Jim

What has angered some, including myself, are the statements that the BE will not give its #3 to a "non-bc$" foe in the Liberty Bowl; this would I believe be the third highest payout of the BE Bowls, correct? If so, then it is pure damn arrogancce on the part of the BE (and imo, unfounded at that!). Most Memphis fans I believe are not attacking the BE, merely critical of certain statements and assumptions on the part of some BE fans. It does work both ways it seems.

Actually it might not be the Continental Bowl has said that they would raise their payouts to be the third highest BE Bowl. So if they end up paying more than the Liberty are closer than the Liberty to most BE schools and offer an ACC opponent while LB offers CUSA then its a no brainer that the LB would not get third choice.

omnicarrier Wrote:According to a West Virginia poster using Lexis-Nexis as his source, here are SU's and Pitt's bowl numbers:

SU

92/93 - Fiesta - 6000 tickets sold thru SU, 8500 total
95/96 -Gator - 4000 tickets
96 - Liberty - 5000 tickets
97 - Fiesta - 6500 tickets sold thru SU, ~ 9000 total
98/99 - Orange - 11,000 sold thru SU, ~ 15000 total
99 - Music City - 2000
01 - Insight - 2000
04 - Tangerine/Champs - 5000

Pitt

97 - Liberty - 6000
00 - Insight - 4000
01 - Tangerine - 3000
03 - Tire - 5000
04/05 - Fiesta - 9000

Apparently, the bigger BCS-type Bowls keep track of fan rooting interest when the ticket is not purchased through the schools themselves.

SU's ticket sales figures look about right based upon what I have been told from SU fans that do more traveling than I do - except for the Gator. That looks off to me.

A New Year's Day Bowl in Florida I think would and did attract more than 4000 simply based upon the numbers that went to the Orange Bowl a few years later. Not to mention that a VT/Clemson match-up in the Gator drew less than 1000 more fans than a Syracuse/Clemson match-up did. Everyone knows the Jokies travel between 20,000-25,000 and that Clemson is a good traveling team as well. No way Jacksonville compensated with an additional 20,000+ local fans for our game. Local fans habits just don't do huge swings like that. 10,000 - yeah that's possible. Much more than that is starting to stretch credibility.

The 01 Insight was probably higher as well, since SU has alum in that area. But I remember many SU fans were upset that VT got the Gator over the Orange when we finished 6-1 in the BE that year while the Jokies were only 4-3 (not to mention we beat them head-to-head as well).

Following future trends in this area will be important for the BE.

Cheers,
Neil

In my prior post about attendance from your two schools, I did say it was understandable; however, from the Liberty and sponsers viewpoint most likely unacceptable.

Also, I think your figures for tickets from the two schools support the fact that C-USA and the City of Memphis support the Liberty Bowl.

1996: Syracuse vs Houston: SU tickets sold 5,000; total attendance 50,206. Now I believe you agree there are not a whole lot of SU alumni in the Memphis mid-south area, so the balance of that attendance is from the Memphis area and UH (UH I'd guess brought max. 5-10,000).

1197: Pitt vs USM: Pitt sold 6,000 tickets; total attendance 49,165. Again, not alot of Pitt alumns in the immediate area. (USM I'd guess brought 10-15,000) and the balance the Memphis area.

The Liberty Bowl seats 63,000, so L-YES says the locals don't show for the games, that is a crock of B.S.!

TexanMark Wrote:L-Yes I'll use simple logic and disagree with you on Memphis Support.&nbsp; Several games featured teams that have a rep for not traveling well but yet the game had over 40,000 attendance.&nbsp; Where did they come from?

<a href='http://www.libertybowl.org/navigation-content-results' target='_blank'>Liberty Bowl Attendance</a>

Simple logic and common sense told me that Auto Zone is calling the shots on the conference match-ups. Empirical evidence from the four games I've attended led me to believe that U Memphis fans have a negligible impact on actual attendance. Also I factored in the fact that the Memphis Tigers had horrid attendance prior to the last two seasons, there are many alumni bases in Memphis that are not of the University of Memphis, formerly Memphis State. Memphis is a large metropolitan area planted squarely in the heart of SEC country. Check games in Memphis' past in which they play Arkansas or Ole Miss or MSU at the Liberty Bowl, the attendance for that home game jumps by a freakishly large % in comparison to the rest of the season.