It is a nonissue IMHO

Most people do not want to write out long missives. "Football schools" and "Basketball Onlies" are terms quickly written. If someone's panty gets in a wad they'll have to deal with it on their own time.

Neil I respect you alot but we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Ok, they are now the non-1A football schools and Notre Dame!

Quote:TexanMark Posted on Jul 31 2005, 02:06 PM
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It is a nonissue IMHO

Most people do not want to write out long missives. "Football schools" and "Basketball Onlies" are terms quickly written. If someone's panty gets in a wad they'll have to deal with it on their own time.

Neil I respect you alot but we'll just have to agree to disagree. 

Mark,

I respect you a lot as well. But basically, my general rule of thumb regarding to 'agree to disagree' is when I can actually see the other side's point of view - I just don't happen to agree with it. In this case, I simply don't see your point of view.

You say, in your opinion, it's a non-issue - but CardFanatic thought it was, as did DFW Hoya, as did a few others in the past, when it went ignored.

Now, it may not be my issue or your issue, but that doesn't make it a 'non-issue' simply because we don't feel strongly about it. My purpose in this thread was mainly to get posters to realize that what they think is inocuous or harmless may not always be so.

As already stated, most of the D1A schools fans use the terms to separate the two sides of the league but part of the reason they use those specific terms is in an attempt to elevate one side and denigrate the other. That's basic human nature.

And your opening remarks in your other post, while a poor stab at humor (and I know poor humor, since I am usually the practitioner of it - not the one calling someone else out on it) basically proves the point.

Now, I agree this is a sports board, and if this were the SU board, I'd say 'Oh well' if you're a fan from another school you takes your chances - we'll call you what we want to call you on our board. But just as you and I show more courtesy to UConn posters on this board then we often do at OrangeNation.net, CardFanatic and DFW Hoya are only asking for the same courtesy to be extended to the non-D1A side.

And I also know you know I would much prefer to be in a conference where everyone plays both D-1 basketball and D-1A football together where things like this definitely wouldn't be an issue - (damn, Virginia, UNC, and Duke) that, however, is not the case.

We play in a hybrid BE league and CardFanatic's plea was coming from the basis that this is the Big East boards, and whether we like it or not, Georgetown, St. John's, Villanova, Seton Hall, Providence, Marquette, and DePaul are members of it.

As for your saying 'basketball-only schools' and 'football schools' are quickly written, while true, there could be even simpler terms to type that the non-D1A side would not object to. Presently, I use the terms 'D1A schools' and 'non-D1A' schools in my posts. It actually takes less time to type that than the others.

But I'm not advocating the usage of those terms, because I'm from the D1A side. It shouldn't come from me, or you, or L-Yes, or any fan of a D1A school. I was hoping DFW Hoya and some of the fans from the non-D1A side would respond in this thread to let us know what they would be comfortable with - but I don't think that is going to happen now.

So basically, I've said now, everything I have to say to the D1A fans on this board about this topic.

Here's to be better threads and topics in the future.

Cheers,
Neil

My original point was that the term "basketball only" implied that these eight schools which do not play I-A football played only basketball in the conference, which is untrue, as opposed to Temple, which really was a "football only".

Second, calling schools "I-A" and "I-AA" works fine for NCAA folks, but it's not accurate either, since one of these schools is I-A , two I-AA, and five I-AAA (the NCAA nomenclature for no-football at all). And while the eight schools are Catholic, there are a significant number of non-Catholic students at these schools too. At Georgetown, the non-Catholic ratio is close to 50%, which causes some consternation at schools like Notre Dame, where the non-Catholic numbers are considerably lower. (Some doctrinaire ND folks have even argued Georgetown is no longer "Catholic" anymore.)

Perhaps the use of "football schools" and "basketball schools" (not "non-football" or "basketball-only") will be the most practical, owing that everyone on this board understand when you're talking about 'basketball schools", this refers to teams whose primary revenue sport is basketball.

I appreciate all the comments posted to date.

omnicarrier Wrote:

Quote:L-yes Posted on Jul 31 2005, 11:44 AM
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Quote:(omnicarrier @ Jul 30 2005, 09:36 AM)
[quote]
L-yes Posted on Jul 30 2005, 07:31 AM
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How should we differentiate them? They are a different faction within the Big East. I’d venture to guess that you aren’t seeing more ‘basketball-only’ fans on this board because we are months away from basketball season and football starts in a matter of weeks. To claim that they are ‘offended’ by a term as innocuous as ‘basketball-only’ or ‘non-football’ is completely ridiculous since neither term has any negative connotation and merely states the truth. I know that some play 1-aa football but come on, everyone knows what we are talking about.

It's not ' a claim'. DFW Hoya and others have made posts on this topic in the past. And the board has lost some Georgetown and Seton Hall posters that used to post here more often - regardless of season.

And yeah, it's not race or gender - but let's face it - the terms usage is not 'the truth'. 'Basketball-only' is far from the truth since many of those schools will be kicking UL's butts in many other BE sports such as soccer and baseball. And 'non-football' isn't 'the truth' either since some of them do play football, just not at the D-1A level.

Let's face it, the terms used are, for the most part, to try and distinguish the two factions that exist within this hybrid. But the terms also, in a small part, are meant to belittle those schools and to try and make them out to be insignificant simply because they do not play D-1A football. To think otherwise, imho, is to avoid 'the truth'.

Cheers,
Neil

This is beyond the pale.

Some would rather identify programs in an athletic conference by their religious affiliation than by the two primary sports that make all other sport programs viable.

Please folks... seriously.

I'm blown away. [/QUOTE ]

Well, that's an interesting 'take', L-Yes. So, to the majority of the sports world how do you think they view - Syracuse, Connecticut, Louisville, and Connecticut by their two primary sports? If you think they view any of those four as 'football' schools -THINK AGAIN!

Without doubt, the only school viewed in this league as being a 'true' football school to the outside sports fan is West Virginia.

So maybe the phrases used should be 'basketball schools' and 'basketball schools who want desperately to be viewed as football schools and who haven't made it yet?'

Cheers,
Neil

You've completely lost me.

This conversation is about athletic programs in a conference that do or do not play division 1-A football. Period.

This is not about women’s suffrage, the civil rights movement, Latin immigration, religious oppression or any other form of discrimination. It is a simple differentiation between sports programs in a collegiate athletic conference.

Get a grip Neil.

Quote:Without doubt, the only school viewed in this league as being a 'true' football school to the outside sports fan is West Virginia.

-- I would think the Pitt Panthers and there fans in western PA would have be a "true" football school....Tony Dorsett, Dan Marino, Mike Ditka, Hugh Green and all the rest...and all of the HS football tradition in western PA and it being the "Cradle of QBs"...

-- One thing I have noticed while on the message boards is that the fans of the football schools and bball schools rarley coexist on the same message board...the only one where I have seen fans of both parties is Cardfanatic's old board...and that was really two boards in one with a section to discuss bball, football and olympic sports....It was really interesting to read some of the bball schools fan's posts...many of them still viewed Pitt as the "new BE school" and thought of Rutgers, WVU and the newer schools has basically red headed step children


Jackson

I for one miss HoyaAG, Hoya Guy, RPcity, JRSlim, shublueblood, shupirates1, billybluedemon, vuwildcatfan4ever, the 2 marquette fans (I cant remember their screen names...) and others....



Those guys were fun to discuss hoops with and are examples of those that didnt feel welcome on this board. I was specifically told that by at least 3 of them. I think that alone is a shame and we should all make a concerted effort to make sure that in the future we act as we would in real life and stop calling people names they dont like. If you were talking face-to-face and someone mentioned they didnt like being called a certain name you wouldnt continue to do so. So why do it on an internet message board?

CardFANATIC Wrote:I for one miss HoyaAG, Hoya Guy, RPcity, JRSlim, shublueblood, shupirates1, billybluedemon, vuwildcatfan4ever, the 2 marquette fans (I cant remember their screen names...) and others....



Those guys were fun to discuss hoops with and are examples of those that didnt feel welcome on this board. I was specifically told that by at least 3 of them. I think that alone is a shame and we should all make a concerted effort to make sure that in the future we act as we would in real life and stop calling people names they dont like. If you were talking face-to-face and someone mentioned they didnt like being called a certain name you wouldnt continue to do so. So why do it on an internet message board?

I dont recall ever reading any posts that even hinted at the basketball schools not being wanted. Or that the dont have any business posting here. I think they may have taken offense to some folks wanting the BE to split from the bb schools. It may just be thin skin at work here. Its a shame because I too enjoyed debating with those guys. I was wondering what has happened to them.

Cardfanatic...any idea why the fans of the Catholic schools didn't set up shop on the basketball board here (like on your old board)? It seems to me that would have been the best solution for everyone. I can understand why they wouldn't want to wade through all the posts about the BCS, bowl games and football expansion that we have here on the general conference talk forum.




Jackson

Hey I don't know and I may be out in left field here but I think we will see more of the Catholic Basketball school fans back when it is well.... Basketball season. I doubt they aren't posting because they are offended of the terms used to describe them. :rolleyes:

I agree

Quote: Hey I don't know and I may be out in left field here but I think we will see more of the Catholic Basketball school fans back when it is well.... Basketball season. I doubt they aren't posting because they are offended of the terms used to describe them.

I have personally been told that by numerous fans of those schools. You dont think they like to talk sports in the offseason? What are we doing now? Talkins sports in the offseason of course....duh.

It was the same way in CUSA, most of the non-1A football programs did not really come around except in basketball and scocer season.

Quote:I have personally been told that by numerous fans of those schools.

-- What did they say? Were they turned off by all the football talk?


Jackson

no, believe it or not just because their favorite school does not play 1a football they DO like football....They were however, upset that they felt the fans of the football schools belittled their schools and were made to feel less important. They felt like strangers in their own house so to speak. Plus, if you'll remember on the old board RP and vu would cross over and even chat on the football board from time to time.

Wilkie01 Wrote:I agree

I second that

I don't think anyone one this board as made the fans of the Catholic schools feel unwelcome or told them to go away....this just happens to be a football dominated board where bball isn't as discussed as frequently (at least during this time of the yr)...Hopefully more of them will show up when bball tips off and we can move away from all this CUSA crap


Jackson

man... why did i just waste my time reading this thread.

They are Basketball only Big East Schools... if they don't like it get a football team.

I don't think they are anything less as people, but they do contribute less to this conference... a whole TEAM less... they'll just need to get over it.

if they feel they're less that's there problem.

When it's basketball season they can talk about their basketball programs, it's not our fault they don't have a football team.

what a waste of bandwidth

Catmandu Wrote:man... why did i just waste my time reading this thread.

They are Basketball only Big East Schools... if they don't like it get a football team.

I don't think they are anything less as people, but they do contribute less to this conference... a whole TEAM less... they'll just need to get over it.

if they feel they're less that's there problem.

When it's basketball season they can talk about their basketball programs, it's not our fault they don't have a football team.

what a waste of bandwidth

They aren't basketball only considering all their other sports sans for football are played in the Big East.