With all this liberty bowl talk I really wished Mike.T could have gotten the Champs Sports bowl now that they have Big 10 in it. Pitt,UC,UL,SU,Uconn,WVU,RU fans would all go see there team play Iowa,Michigan,Mich St,PSU etc

Who knows. There has never really been a Big East vs Big Ten bowl and Big East and Big Ten schools rarely play each other. In fact, Cincinnati joining the Big East gives the conference the only consistent Big East/Big Ten ongoing series, though there have been some Big East/Big Ten games recently (Cincinnati and South Florida vs Penn State, Rutgers/Michigan State, and Syracuse and others). The two conference rarely play against each other though.

Cat's_Claw Wrote:Who knows. There has never really been a Big East vs Big Ten bowl and Big East and Big Ten schools rarely play each other. In fact, Cincinnati joining the Big East gives the conference the only consistent Big East/Big Ten ongoing series, though there have been some Big East/Big Ten games recently (Cincinnati and South Florida vs Penn State, Rutgers/Michigan State, and Syracuse and others). The two conference rarely play against each other though.

Not true Cat's Claw Rutgers has a Big Ten team on the schedule for the foreseeable future. I believe Bob has another series with MSU lined up soon and we play @ Illinois this year and vs. Illinois next year. Syracuse regularly plays Big Ten teams as well. I think that you will start to see more Big Ten - Big East matchups in the future.

brista21 Wrote:Not true Cat's Claw Rutgers has a Big Ten team on the schedule for the foreseeable future. I believe Bob has another series with MSU lined up soon and we play @ Illinois this year and vs. Illinois next year. Syracuse regularly plays Big Ten teams as well. I think that you will start to see more Big Ten - Big East matchups in the future.

I mentioned Rutgers and their Big Ten matchups. I just mean that, in past years, Big East and Big Ten teams didn't play each other a ton other then a few teams.

Cat's_Claw Wrote:

brista21 Wrote:Not true Cat's Claw Rutgers has a Big Ten team on the schedule for the foreseeable future. I believe Bob has another series with MSU lined up soon and we play @ Illinois this year and vs. Illinois next year. Syracuse regularly plays Big Ten teams as well. I think that you will start to see more Big Ten - Big East matchups in the future.

I mentioned Rutgers and their Big Ten matchups. I just mean that, in past years, Big East and Big Ten teams didn't play each other a ton other then a few teams.

True other than PSU playing one of their old rivals occasionally and Syracuse's typical inclusion of a Big Ten team you haven't seen much.

Before the BCS, most bowl games didn't have more than one tie-in team, other than the Rose Bowl. This extensive scheduling of conferences in bowls is a relatively new development.

However, BIGEAST teams have played BIG 10 teams in bowl games, both major and minor.

If the Toronto bowl ever gets underway, that would be a matchup they should consider. They would have a good opportunity to get a nice crowd that way. It is going to be indoors, isn't it???

Jim

JIM15068 Wrote:Before the BCS, most bowl games didn't have more than one tie-in team, other than the Rose Bowl. This extensive scheduling of conferences in bowls is a relatively new development.

However, BIGEAST teams have played BIG 10 teams in bowl games, both major and minor.

If the Toronto bowl ever gets underway, that would be a matchup they should consider. They would have a good opportunity to get a nice crowd that way. It is going to be indoors, isn't it???

Jim

It will indeed, but it will be Big East vs MAC, whether it's the Toronto Bowl or the Motor City Bowl. (The organizers want to occasionally send a Big Ten team to Toronto and a Big East team to Detroit to play respective MAC teams)

brista21 Wrote:

Cat's_Claw Wrote:

brista21 Wrote:Not true Cat's Claw Rutgers has a Big Ten team on the schedule for the foreseeable future. I believe Bob has another series with MSU lined up soon and we play @ Illinois this year and vs. Illinois next year. Syracuse regularly plays Big Ten teams as well. I think that you will start to see more Big Ten - Big East matchups in the future.

I mentioned Rutgers and their Big Ten matchups. I just mean that, in past years, Big East and Big Ten teams didn't play each other a ton other then a few teams.

True other than PSU playing one of their old rivals occasionally and Syracuse's typical inclusion of a Big Ten team you haven't seen much.

That has always surprised me to. Cincinnati basketball since Bob Huggins took over has rarely played Big East clubs. We played West Virginia and UConn in the NCAAs and Rutgers home and home but I believe that was it. You think those conference would be make natural rivals since they would save money on travel. The Big Ten hooked up with the MAC so it's not like they don't play regional conferences.

Anybody want to see Pittsburgh play Penn State in a bowl game?

IMO:

a) The northeast is notorious for having a comparably small crop of top high school football talent. It's not devoid of skilled players, but it's not rated anything like Florida, Texas, Califonria, etc. History has also shown that, with regular access to PSU and ND, the Big Ten was able to lure recruits from the area without having to dip its toe into the pool, so to speak. Witness Ron Dayne of New Jersey, for example.

b) Since Big Ten members don't schedule too many big inter-conference match-ups, anyway, there was little incentive to go after more BE match-ups than needed. Games against the likes of WVU would garner TV time, but probably not something against Temple or Rutgers. With ND a semi-regular, BC and Pitt didn't feel the need to go begging for another big football power. Most of the time when Big Ten teams look out of conference, the preference is for a one time visit to the Big Ten stadium, which your average BE team is reluctant to do.

c) Meanwhile, the BE teams were trying to find themselves. There were the established football schools in Miami, VT and WVU, with Pitt and Cuse also feeling safe. They're tried to branch out with the ooc schedule but for some reason have not looked at or landed a B10 match-up. Good games with Nebraska, FSU, etc, just not B10. The bottom half, on the other hand, could ill afford to go out and schedule a game they were unlikely to win.

- - - - -

This alludes to my concerns for regionality and identity in that the BE football conference's short and now dysfunctional life has not fully created an entity that the Big Ten is going to go out of its way to accommodate. Once the BE programs become more established, and especially as the northeast fans and recruits show more respect to the BE, then the Big Ten will begin regular play with the conference members.

I also think the Big Ten would be the most interested in the Big Apple Bowl concept. Just a hunch, but I imagine their alumni would make the biggest splash for a game there, as well as the league's interest in securing a foothold in that media market... perhaps even an attempt to keep the BE from overwhelming the presence of PSU and ND. A $2-3M payout should land the #3-5 team, and provided the match-up is favorable I think they'll take the bait.

GunnerFan Wrote:IMO:

a) The northeast is notorious for having a comparably small crop of top high school football talent. It's not devoid of skilled players, but it's not rated anything like Florida, Texas, Califonria, etc. History has also shown that, with regular access to PSU and ND, the Big Ten was able to lure recruits from the area without having to dip its toe into the pool, so to speak. Witness Ron Dayne of New Jersey, for example.

b) Since Big Ten members don't schedule too many big inter-conference match-ups, anyway, there was little incentive to go after more BE match-ups than needed. Games against the likes of WVU would garner TV time, but probably not something against Temple or Rutgers. With ND a semi-regular, BC and Pitt didn't feel the need to go begging for another big football power. Most of the time when Big Ten teams look out of conference, the preference is for a one time visit to the Big Ten stadium, which your average BE team is reluctant to do.

c) Meanwhile, the BE teams were trying to find themselves. There were the established football schools in Miami, VT and WVU, with Pitt and Cuse also feeling safe. They're tried to branch out with the ooc schedule but for some reason have not looked at or landed a B10 match-up. Good games with Nebraska, FSU, etc, just not B10. The bottom half, on the other hand, could ill afford to go out and schedule a game they were unlikely to win.

- - - - -

This alludes to my concerns for regionality and identity in that the BE football conference's short and now dysfunctional life has not fully created an entity that the Big Ten is going to go out of its way to accommodate. Once the BE programs become more established, and especially as the northeast fans and recruits show more respect to the BE, then the Big Ten will begin regular play with the conference members.

I also think the Big Ten would be the most interested in the Big Apple Bowl concept. Just a hunch, but I imagine their alumni would make the biggest splash for a game there, as well as the league's interest in securing a foothold in that media market... perhaps even an attempt to keep the BE from overwhelming the presence of PSU and ND. A $2-3M payout should land the #3-5 team, and provided the match-up is favorable I think they'll take the bait.

Gunner. I've just got to disagree with your opinion on some of these points.

a. It's convenient to pick FL, TX, AND CA as states to compare with the BE HS area. Arguably, the 3 states you mention are the best HS states in the country, but they are not in the same region. I would contend that NJ, PA, and OH form a set of contiguous states containing HS talent as good as, if not better than, any 3-state grouping in the country.

b. BE teams certainly do schedule B10 teams, and it is on a 1 for 1 basis. I'm not going to look at all the schedules, but I know that Pitt has these future games on line: MICHIGAN STATE and IOWA; Syracuse has ILLINOIS, IOWA, OHIO STATE, PENN STATE and NORTHWESTERN.

c. The bottom half of BE teams are capable of beating some B10 teams. Didn't Rutgers just beat Michigan State this past season?

An aside to David K's question ( Anybody want to see Pittsburgh play Penn State in a bowl game?) I think that would be a bowl game that would garner very high ratings.

Jim

BigTen teams like to schedule Notre Dame and Pac10 teams in their OOCs first and foremost for H-and-H deals...... I'm sure you all can understand why.

But there will be more high-profile OOC series between the BigTen and other BCS leagues in the future b/c the Pac10's adding a 9th conference game and the 12th game allowing teams' OOCs to be more different....... In 02-03 (12 game years) there were a number of good matchups with the 4 other BCS leagues including Wisconsin - North Carolina, Wisconsin - West Virginia, Ohio State - NC State, Penn State - Nebraska, Penn State - Boston College, Illinois - Missouri, Ohio State - Texas Tech, Purdue - Wake Forest, Northwestern - Kansas, Indiana - Connecticut, and Penn State - Virginia.

All ready scheduled for the future are Iowa - Pittsburgh, Michigan State - Pittsburgh, Michigan State - Texas A&M, Penn State - Syracuse, Wisconsin - Virginia Tech, Ohio State - Virginia Tech, Illinois - Syracuse, Iowa - Connecticut, Ohio State - USC, Ohio State - Miami FL, along with the series v Notre Dame and Pac10 teams.

Unfortunately Michigan hasn't announced any future H-and-H games besides Notre Dame, but I'm confident that there will be soon.

JIM15068 Wrote:Gunner. I've just got to disagree with your opinion on some of these points.

a. It's convenient to pick FL, TX, AND CA as states to compare with the BE HS area. Arguably, the 3 states you mention are the best HS states in the country, but they are not in the same region. I would contend that NJ, PA, and OH form a set of contiguous states containing HS talent as good as, if not better than, any 3-state grouping in the country.

In reviewing the BE's past I wasn't including OH as part of the mix. Not as a primary resource anyway. Nor was I indicating that the northeast didn't have any talent. Merely, my perception is that the northeast hasn't consistently had the depth of talent to fill a conference worth of program comparable to what we see in the Big Ten. Especially after the likes of PSU and ND take their share. If those areas are producing such volumes of talent, the BE programs should be ashamed for not taking better advantage of it. And there would probably not have been the need for the BE to expand into Florida. IMO, anyway, and disagreement is part of the norm here.

Quote:b. BE teams certainly do schedule B10 teams, and it is on a 1 for 1 basis. I'm not going to look at all the schedules, but I know that Pitt has these future games on line: MICHIGAN STATE and IOWA; Syracuse has ILLINOIS, IOWA, OHIO STATE, PENN STATE and NORTHWESTERN.

Again, not saying it hasn't happened or won't ever happen, but it doesn't seem to be the norm. Pitt and Syracuse have their past ties and an established rapport, Cincy has OSU, and USF and UConn don't really factor in as 1-A newcomers. So basically the question is where do Louisville, Rutgers and WVU fit in. To date, those programs don't seem to rate too highly on the Big Ten radar, in so much as is the conference agressively pursuing regular games with them.

And yes, I understand the BE programs would not seek a one-and-done deal like the average Sun Belt team. But I also don't think the Big Ten programs are going to have many road games to offer what the BE programs would want. Not on a regular basis, anyway, as they'll all want to ensure a 7th home game (and possibly an 8th). It's about how I'm reading the Big Ten, not the Big East.

Quote:c. The bottom half of BE teams are capable of beating some B10 teams. Didn't Rutgers just beat Michigan State this past season?

Paraphrasing Shakespeare, "one win does not a trend make." Capable is one thing, regularly poised to take advantage of that ability is another. And again I'm considering the BE of the past, which included some of Temple's and Rutgers' darkest years, VT before they were a power, etc. Clearly things will be different in the future, I'm just offering my opinions why things have been the way they were in the past.

Could it be that the Big Ten doesn't want to lower itself to play the Big East?...ala the SEC not wanting to play C-USA?...

Quote:O.G. Eagle Posted on Aug 2 2005, 03:48 PM
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Could it be that the Big Ten doesn't want to lower itself to play the Big East?...ala the SEC not wanting to play C-USA?... 

Yeah, that probably explains why the B-10 has a bowl tie-in with that mighty BCS conference the MAC. :rolleyes:

Cheers,
Neil

Quote:So basically the question is where do Louisville, Rutgers and WVU fit in. To date, those programs don't seem to rate too highly on the Big Ten radar, in so much as is the conference agressively pursuing regular games with them.

-- In 1998 West Virginia hosted then #1 ranked Ohio St.....Also in 2002 and 2003 West Virginia and Wisconsin played a home and home series

-- Every since the retirment of Gale Catlett and Don Nehlen..its seems to me that West Virginia has looked to play more games/recruit in the deep south more then in the mid west...The Mountaineers have more players on the current football roster from Alabama then they do from New Jersey...When it comes to scheduling Mississippi St replaces VT for us next yr and insiders report that a football deal between Auburn and West Virginia is close to happening....In recent yrs the bball team has played 4 non conference games against Tennessee, 2 against Flordia and is currently in a sereis with LSU....

-- We will probably never be able to get a one for one with Michigan (although we have gotten home and homes from OSU in the past)....but from our end if it came down to agressively pursuing a game with Minnesota or Ole Miss, our current administration would strongly favor Ole Miss, but Pitt and SU administrators would probably view that issue differently



Jackson

Quote:GunnerFan Posted on Aug 1 2005, 09:14 AM
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IMO:

a) The northeast is notorious for having a comparably small crop of top high school football talent. It's not devoid of skilled players, but it's not rated anything like Florida, Texas, Califonria, etc. History has also shown that, with regular access to PSU and ND, the Big Ten was able to lure recruits from the area without having to dip its toe into the pool, so to speak. Witness Ron Dayne of New Jersey, for example.

Actually, I remember there was a recent Sports Illustrated article that showed where the NFL talent came from and if I recall correctly the rankings went something like this -

California
Florida
Texas
Ohio
Pennsylvania

New Jersey was up there as well. So Pennsylvania and New Jersey would make the BE recruiting grounds fine - if, as you state later, the BE could really establish itself regionally as a power conference with power teams.

Quote:b) Since Big Ten members don't schedule too many big inter-conference match-ups, anyway, there was little incentive to go after more BE match-ups than needed. Games against the likes of WVU would garner TV time, but probably not something against Temple or Rutgers. With ND a semi-regular, BC and Pitt didn't feel the need to go begging for another big football power. Most of the time when Big Ten teams look out of conference, the preference is for a one time visit to the Big Ten stadium, which your average BE team is reluctant to do. 

Yep, which is why they have a good relationship with MAC schools.

Quote:This alludes to my concerns for regionality and identity in that the BE football conference's short and now dysfunctional life has not fully created an entity that the Big Ten is going to go out of its way to accommodate. Once the BE programs become more established, and especially as the northeast fans and recruits show more respect to the BE, then the Big Ten will begin regular play with the conference members.

Well, let's be honest. The main reason why the B10 is getting northeastern recruits now is PSU. Prior to PSU joining the B10, the majority of those recruits went to PSU, ND, Miami and the other northeastern independents. The only B10 school that had any impact on northeastern recruiting was Michigan.

Also, I'm not convinced that the old BE teams (outside of Rutgers and Pitt now with Wannstedt) truly want (#1 priority) regular match-ups with the B10. All most of the old BE teams really want is to play PSU. Sure they will take match-ups with the others, but they certainly are not a priority.

Only the Bearcats are smack dab in the middle of B10 country. Pitt could be considered B10 country as well, but they haven't seemed all that interested in signing B10 games as a first priority, until Wannstedt took over as coach recently.

Most of the other BE teams seem to prefer ACC match-ups, with the possible exception of new member Louisville who probably would prefer higher profile SEC match-ups if they could get them. Maybe WVU feels the same way, but with high-profile rivalries with ACC members Maryland and VT, it doesn't appear so from this outsiders point of view.

Quote:I also think the Big Ten would be the most interested in the Big Apple Bowl concept. Just a hunch, but I imagine their alumni would make the biggest splash for a game there, as well as the league's interest in securing a foothold in that media market... perhaps even an attempt to keep the BE from overwhelming the presence of PSU and ND. A $2-3M payout should land the #3-5 team, and provided the match-up is favorable I think they'll take the bait. 

Agree. The Big Apple Bowl (if it ever comes about) is a dream match-up between BE and B10. But it would have been much better of a dream in a Manhatten setting rather than a New Jersey setting. Damn Sheldon and Silver.

Cheers,
Neil

Quote:Most of the other BE teams seem to prefer ACC match-ups, with the possible exception of new member Louisville who probably would prefer higher profile SEC match-ups if they could get them. Maybe WVU feels the same way, but with high-profile rivalries with ACC members Maryland and VT, it doesn't appear so from this outsiders point of view

--As far as WVU is concerned I agree...but... RichRod and Eddie Pastilong (AD) have stated often that there is a danger of WVU scheduling too many ACC teams in football...this was one of (although not the major) reason WVU backed away from the VT series...I guess there fear is that playing two ACC games every yr (and three some yrs with FSU coming up) would hurt the Mountaineers when it comes to the Gator and Tire bowls with the rematch factor

-- What you are seeing is WVU trying to play the SEC instead...like I said above we have the Miss St series coming up, are in at least talks with Auburn and really pushed hard to restart the UK football series for our 12th game next yr


Jackson