Killer Frogs in the Sink.....stlll the best handle in internet message board history.

Two important differences between the MWC & the BE. The winning percentage of the conference against BCS opponents. BE has two or three times more wins against BCS opponents. That contributes to the second big difference, teams with a winning record. LAst year the MWC had 2/3 of their teams with a losing record. The BE had 75% with a winning record. Say what you will with the majority of your conference holding a losing record, you can't claim superiority over any BCS conference. Utah was a team for the ages last year but the coach is gone and they graduated a ton of talent. The MWC won't have another team like that for some time.

Killerfrog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:I think the BE is probably a better conference overall, but not by much. Objective ways the MWC has an argument:

Average finish of the champion for this BCS cycle.
Average Sagarin rating 2004 (and actually higher than the BE in 2003 with Miami/VT).
Number of top 25 finishes since 1998 (as far back as I have looked).
Number of weeks in top 25 at any time since 1998.

So there is an argument that can be made, although I still think the BE is superior when you look at all data. But if you use preseason data from most pundits, it is clear that you can lump the top 5 conferences together, than a gap, then the BE and MWC have similar averages (in fact if you average out Phil Steele's power ratings in his magazine, the MWC is higher), then a gap, then the CUSA, WAC, MAC, then the Sunbelt.

Top 25 finishes are so subjective, Big East teams played Miami, VT, and BC every season along with Syracuse, WVU and Pitt

MWC teams played: BYU, USAFA and Utah

Killerfrog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:I think the BE is probably a better conference overall, but not by much. Objective ways the MWC has an argument:

Average finish of the champion for this BCS cycle.
Average Sagarin rating 2004 (and actually higher than the BE in 2003 with Miami/VT).
Number of top 25 finishes since 1998 (as far back as I have looked).
Number of weeks in top 25 at any time since 1998.

So there is an argument that can be made, although I still think the BE is superior when you look at all data. But if you use preseason data from most pundits, it is clear that you can lump the top 5 conferences together, than a gap, then the BE and MWC have similar averages (in fact if you average out Phil Steele's power ratings in his magazine, the MWC is higher), then a gap, then the CUSA, WAC, MAC, then the  Sunbelt.

I agree, even with Miami, VT and BC, MWC was right behind them in terms of overall conference rank. Now that they had no choice but to add CUSA teams, IMO, they took a step back slightly while MWC adding TCU took a step up slightly as well although NBE is still ahead overall. More than anything, the "label" is what separates MWC from NBE.

Wow adding a team(TCU) that is predicted to finish 5th or 6th in your conf is a step up? What Bowl were they in last year?

The problem is reflected in the CFN pre season poll. The highest ranking NBE team is 19th and the cards are 26th. Objectively the MWC will not get a BCS bid and I agree with a Houston radio sportcaster and syracuse alum that the Big East has no chance of holding a BCS spot unless louisville goes much further than they have ever been before. For either of these leagues to hold a spot they must produce a consistent top 5 team. #19 and #26 won't get it.

TopCoog Wrote:The problem is reflected in the CFN pre season poll. The highest ranking NBE team is 19th and the cards are 26th. Objectively the MWC will not get a BCS bid and I agree with a Houston radio sportcaster and syracuse alum that the Big East has no chance of holding a BCS spot unless louisville goes much further than they have ever been before. For either of these leagues to hold a spot they must produce a consistent top 5 team. #19 and #26 won't get it.

According to Phil Steele, the country's most accurate pre-season prognosticator, Louisville is already #4. So obviously making the top 5 isn't a problem.
Those left behind in CUSA, along with those lost in the wilderness that is the MWC, can pine all that want for the Big East to lose its automatic bid to the BCS; It will NEVER happen. Without the Big East there is no BCS: NONE. You can't have a National Champion with nearly 40% of the nation's population not being included.
Bottomline...no matter what the criteria are the BCS power brokers will change the rules to protect the present members. For example, the dropping of SOS and allowing conferences to claim the ranking of teams for BCS purposes that didn't even play in that conference for example..Boston College for the ACC and Louisville for the Big East...Don't worry about the Big East we'll be just fine.
CJ

Hey Jim I don't think the BE is going to lose its BCS bid. To say that there would be no BCS without the BE is INSANE! The vast majority of that 40% you came up with somehow are PRO football fans who could care less about college football. For some reason I don't think you would see people rioting in the streets or jumping off bridges if Pitt wasn't in a BCS Bowl last year.

Jim, You also know that Phil Steels's louisville prediction is way out of line with all of the others. Your average is 13 even with the #4 he gave you. Point is, for your sake he better be right...if not your screwed. Try a little more of that grape koolaide.

St. Patrick Eagle Wrote:Hey Jim I don't think the BE is going to lose its BCS bid. To say that there would be no BCS without the BE is INSANE! The vast majority of that 40% you came up with somehow are PRO football fans who could care less about college football. For some reason I don't think you would see people rioting in the streets or jumping off bridges if Pitt wasn't in a BCS Bowl last year.

WOW... The only pro football fans in the country are in the Big East and I don't recall any Auburn fans jumping off a bridge because the Tigers got left out of the BCS Championship because of a weak schedule and they supposedly love college football in the south..LMAO
Deny it all you want but the BCS is paid for with advertising dollars. 40% of the nation's television sets are in the Northeast...The BCS isn't going to trade the Northeast corridor for the sparsely populated MWC or for any other area that is already represented by the BCS..
CJ

TopCoog Wrote:Jim, You also know that Phil Steels's louisville prediction is way out of line with all of the others. Your average is 13 even with the #4 he gave you. Point is, for your sake he better be right...if not your screwed. Try a little more of that grape koolaide.

No...let me write this real slooooow so you understand...it doesn't matter. Let me say it again, it doesn't matter what Louisville, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Syracuse or anyone else in the Big East does.....The BCS will NEVER walk away from 40% of the Nation's television sets...The BCS folks will make changes to keep the Big East in the BCS....
Funny CUSA fans have been claiming for 3 years now....Let me see if I can remember all of the outlandish claims...none that came true I might add...
1. The Big East and CUSA will merge....WRONG
2. The Big East will NEVER invite Louisville or Cincinnati...WRONG
3. The Big East will lose it's automatic BCS bid...WRONG
4. The Big East will not be able to count Louisville's BCS finish while playing in CUSA....WRONG
Shall I continue ? Don't you think its time you CUSA folks let it go? Why not go back to the CUSA board and talk about playing against the new schools in CUSA and worry about building your own conference and leave those of us that root for Big East schools to worry about our conference....Thanks
CJ

CardinalJim Wrote:

St. Patrick Eagle Wrote:Hey Jim I don't think the BE is going to lose its BCS bid. To say that there would be no BCS without the BE is INSANE!  The vast majority of that 40% you came up with somehow are PRO football fans who could care less about college football. For some reason I don't think you would see people rioting in the streets or jumping off bridges if Pitt wasn't in a BCS Bowl last year.

WOW... The only pro football fans in the country are in the Big East and I don't recall any Auburn fans jumping off a bridge because the Tigers got left out of the BCS Championship because of a weak schedule and they supposedly love college football in the south..LMAO
Deny it all you want but the BCS is paid for with advertising dollars. 40% of the nation's television sets are in the Northeast...The BCS isn't going to trade the Northeast corridor for the sparsely populated MWC or for any other area that is already represented by the BCS..
CJ

Jim, I guess I'll have to repeat myself for you. I said that the vast majority of fans in the NE are Pro football fans. Where did I say that they were the ONLY???? Thought so.

CardinalJim Wrote:........
1. The Big East and CUSA will merge....WRONG
........

They did merge - the Cards, Cincy, the Bulls, Marquette and Depaul...that's pretty close to a merger. It's just a different merger than some thought it would be.
:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

TopCoog Wrote:The problem is reflected in the CFN pre season poll. The highest ranking NBE team is 19th and the cards are 26th. Objectively the MWC will not get a BCS bid and I agree with a Houston radio sportcaster and syracuse alum that the Big East has no chance of holding a BCS spot unless louisville goes much further than they have ever been before. For either of these leagues to hold a spot they must produce a consistent top 5 team. #19 and #26 won't get it.

Thanks for really making your point with CFN's irrelevant poll. We know what USAtoday has the BE teams ranked already. The USA Toaday poll actually matters and is a criteria that the bcs actually uses. So if you really want to make a relevant point, why did you not use the poll that is part of the bcs?