a leading "regional university" should represent the region and help improve the region in all facets.
our region has a lot of hospitals, nurses, pharmacies and so does the ETSU.
the #1 sport in the region is football therefore ETSU should sponsor football!

(08-18-2011 08:13 AM)Buc2002 Wrote:  Official Villanova game attendance: 4,939

That would have been approximately 7,000 short of a sellout. And in fact, Cavan was quoted after the game about how disappointed he was in ETSU's fans for their lack of support. And many in the media later suggested that this was one of the major reasons Cavan literally jumped at the first job that came along later that year.

While fans may want football in the future, rewriting the past or overexagerating what attendance was like "back in the day" is not helpful. I believe we can all agree that any future football effort will have to be on a completely different level than the past, and no one can deny that local support will have to be "much" greater than it was in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, etc.

I'm surprised at that; are any of the attendance figures posted publicly anywhere? Obviously that was 15 years ago at this point, but my memory of the football games around that time (like 96-00 or so) was that there were at least a couple times where the dome was pretty full, and generally decent crowds the rest of the time.

EDIT: Buc66 mentioned the attendance for the Marshall game, and obviously, 15 years ago, but I vaguely remember reading about it in the paper how the crowd was big at that game leading into the Nova game. Do you have the number for that game?

Also, why would the local support have to be "much" greater than it was in the past, if the completely different level than the past is non-scholarship D3 or something like that? Granted - Title IX - but if it's non-scholarship, does that matter? Also, ETSU already seems to really get behind sports that don't generate a lot of exposure or local support (e.g., track, CC, soccer), but that do cost money - in soccer's case, a significant amount, with the stadium and maybe recruiting (just looking at the roster and seeing how many kids are from overseas), and the number of scholarships it probably takes to have a D1 soccer team. What's the difference in ETSU's mind between for example, men's soccer in its current state and non-scholarship D3 football?

(08-22-2011 12:35 AM)Buc Island Wrote:  

(08-18-2011 08:13 AM)Buc2002 Wrote:  Official Villanova game attendance: 4,939

That would have been approximately 7,000 short of a sellout. And in fact, Cavan was quoted after the game about how disappointed he was in ETSU's fans for their lack of support. And many in the media later suggested that this was one of the major reasons Cavan literally jumped at the first job that came along later that year.

While fans may want football in the future, rewriting the past or overexagerating what attendance was like "back in the day" is not helpful. I believe we can all agree that any future football effort will have to be on a completely different level than the past, and no one can deny that local support will have to be "much" greater than it was in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, etc.

I'm surprised at that; are any of the attendance figures posted publicly anywhere? Obviously that was 15 years ago at this point, but my memory of the football games around that time (like 96-00 or so) was that there were at least a couple times where the dome was pretty full, and generally decent crowds the rest of the time.

EDIT: Buc66 mentioned the attendance for the Marshall game, and obviously, 15 years ago, but I vaguely remember reading about it in the paper how the crowd was big at that game leading into the Nova game. Do you have the number for that game?

Also, why would the local support have to be "much" greater than it was in the past, if the completely different level than the past is non-scholarship D3 or something like that? Granted - Title IX - but if it's non-scholarship, does that matter? Also, ETSU already seems to really get behind sports that don't generate a lot of exposure or local support (e.g., track, CC, soccer), but that do cost money - in soccer's case, a significant amount, with the stadium and maybe recruiting (just looking at the roster and seeing how many kids are from overseas), and the number of scholarships it probably takes to have a D1 soccer team. What's the difference in ETSU's mind between for example, men's soccer in its current state and non-scholarship D3 football?

These are some very valid points. The point is that there are overwhelming reasons for ETSU to have some form of football on campus(and a marching band) rather than be the only school in Tennessee without it. Financially with dedicated fund rasing it can be done on the FCS level which is what all our peer schools are doing. As to the above statement we all know that Coach Cavan left because he was offered a head coaching job at the division 1A(FBS) level making several times what ETSU could afford to pay. I believe only a very, very small number of 1AA coaches would have refused that offer. Right now we have to stay engaged and make sure we get a new president that will put people in place to take care of these problems. It cannot come soon enough.

(08-22-2011 12:35 AM)Buc Island Wrote:  

(08-18-2011 08:13 AM)Buc2002 Wrote:  Official Villanova game attendance: 4,939

That would have been approximately 7,000 short of a sellout. And in fact, Cavan was quoted after the game about how disappointed he was in ETSU's fans for their lack of support. And many in the media later suggested that this was one of the major reasons Cavan literally jumped at the first job that came along later that year.

While fans may want football in the future, rewriting the past or overexagerating what attendance was like "back in the day" is not helpful. I believe we can all agree that any future football effort will have to be on a completely different level than the past, and no one can deny that local support will have to be "much" greater than it was in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, etc.

I'm surprised at that; are any of the attendance figures posted publicly anywhere? Obviously that was 15 years ago at this point, but my memory of the football games around that time (like 96-00 or so) was that there were at least a couple times where the dome was pretty full, and generally decent crowds the rest of the time.

EDIT: Buc66 mentioned the attendance for the Marshall game, and obviously, 15 years ago, but I vaguely remember reading about it in the paper how the crowd was big at that game leading into the Nova game. Do you have the number for that game?

Also, why would the local support have to be "much" greater than it was in the past, if the completely different level than the past is non-scholarship D3 or something like that? Granted - Title IX - but if it's non-scholarship, does that matter? Also, ETSU already seems to really get behind sports that don't generate a lot of exposure or local support (e.g., track, CC, soccer), but that do cost money - in soccer's case, a significant amount, with the stadium and maybe recruiting (just looking at the roster and seeing how many kids are from overseas), and the number of scholarships it probably takes to have a D1 soccer team. What's the difference in ETSU's mind between for example, men's soccer in its current state and non-scholarship D3 football?

Check out who plays non-scholarship football - private schools. It's mostly a revenue driver because you get 75-100 kids to come to your school and pay tuition. The budget situation at a public school is different. Without the revenue boost to the institution, there's not much motivation for non-scholarship football. If ETSU adds football back it needs to be at the FCS level to be worthwhile, which of course requires money. That should be the focus, how to get more money.


As for soccer, it's really not a significant expenditure. The stadium was pretty much paid for with private donations and the yearly expenses are a fraction of the cost of football. The scholarship limit for men's soccer is only 9.9. Compared to 62 for FCS football. If you want to take a look at data from the Dept. of Ed reported by institutions, check out the link below. Men's soccer operating expenses were only $65,000. As for recruiting, the total reported for men's sports is $87,000 and you know basketball is getting the lions share, so recruiting is not a major expense. Anyway, it's some interesting data to dig into. Private schools aren't required to report their info, so you may not find all the schools you'd like to compare to, but ETSU is there. It is for the 09-10 year by the way.

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

I'm sorry but 13,000 for a college football game sucks. Even if you could get it for every game, it wouldn't generate enough revenue to begin to cover expenses.

13,000 is a joke.

(08-23-2011 12:08 AM)BuccTiger Wrote:  I'm sorry but 13,000 for a college football game sucks. Even if you could get it for every game, it wouldn't generate enough revenue to begin to cover expenses.

13,000 is a joke.

It would be at the 1A level but not at the 1AA(FCS) level. According to Dr. Larimore of Tenn Tech 7000-8000 perfectly well supports 1AA football. This is precisely why the NCAA has FCS football for universities who want to play football but not spend a ton of money on it. That is why every single school in Tennessee comparable to ETSU plays football at the FCS level. They cannot afford NOT to play it. It is the level ETSU needs to return to as soon as the new president is named.

Memphis doesn't draw 13000 unless they're playing Ole Miss, Miss. State or Tennessee, and it's their fans. Need I remind you of the 4500 game with East Carolina a couple of years ago? ESPN had to change it's production techniques in order to keep from showing an empty stadium.
Last season there were 21 schools that averaged more than 13,000 per game, and only 35 that averaged over 10,000. Now, while that doesn't create the major college atmosphere, you can create a pretty good one if you built your stadium properly.

(08-23-2011 12:08 AM)BuccTiger Wrote:  I'm sorry but 13,000 for a college football game sucks. Even if you could get it for every game, it wouldn't generate enough revenue to begin to cover expenses.

13,000 is a joke.

(08-23-2011 08:18 AM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  Memphis doesn't draw 13000 unless they're playing Ole Miss, Miss. State or Tennessee, and it's their fans. Need I remind you of the 4500 game with East Carolina a couple of years ago? ESPN had to change it's production techniques in order to keep from showing an empty stadium.
Last season there were 21 schools that averaged more than 13,000 per game, and only 35 that averaged over 10,000. Now, while that doesn't create the major college atmosphere, you can create a pretty good one if you built your stadium properly.

(08-23-2011 12:08 AM)BuccTiger Wrote:  I'm sorry but 13,000 for a college football game sucks. Even if you could get it for every game, it wouldn't generate enough revenue to begin to cover expenses.

13,000 is a joke.

I don't know why I come to this board and get sucked into this.

13,000 is a joke.

This isn't about Memphis, but 13,000 is a joke when it happens at Memphis. The last 3 years or so of attendance at Memphis football games has been bad, real bad. However, in years where they had decent teams it was more in the 30K range. Even in years where they had attendence at those levels, Memphis still lost millions of dollars on football. If it weren't for a basketball program that makes millions I don't think they could afford football, even with 30K attendance. Just IMHO of course.

13,000 is a joke, and ETSU probably didn't average half that 90% of the time.

(08-23-2011 01:42 PM)BuccTiger Wrote:  

(08-23-2011 08:18 AM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  Memphis doesn't draw 13000 unless they're playing Ole Miss, Miss. State or Tennessee, and it's their fans. Need I remind you of the 4500 game with East Carolina a couple of years ago? ESPN had to change it's production techniques in order to keep from showing an empty stadium.
Last season there were 21 schools that averaged more than 13,000 per game, and only 35 that averaged over 10,000. Now, while that doesn't create the major college atmosphere, you can create a pretty good one if you built your stadium properly.

(08-23-2011 12:08 AM)BuccTiger Wrote:  I'm sorry but 13,000 for a college football game sucks. Even if you could get it for every game, it wouldn't generate enough revenue to begin to cover expenses.

13,000 is a joke.

I don't know why I come to this board and get sucked into this.

13,000 is a joke.

This isn't about Memphis, but 13,000 is a joke when it happens at Memphis. The last 3 years or so of attendance at Memphis football games has been bad, real bad. However, in years where they had decent teams it was more in the 30K range. Even in years where they had attendence at those levels, Memphis still lost millions of dollars on football. If it weren't for a basketball program that makes millions I don't think they could afford football, even with 30K attendance. Just IMHO of course.

13,000 is a joke, and ETSU probably didn't average half that 90% of the time.

What part of For a Div I school 13,000 is a joke, for a Div IAA ( don't use that Champions and Bowl bs) 13,000 is a perfectly fine number don't you understand? You are trying to compare apples to oranges, if ETSU could achieve and mantain a 13k average in football that would be fine.

You're right, it's not about Memphis but the numbers don't lie in I-AA. 35 teams with attendance above 10000, that's it. The rest are under and schools keep adding football, not dropping. At that level, football is sustainable. As for ETSU, I've said it over and over again, they screwed around and made little to zero effort in building a fan base over the years. The Tiger board talks about spending entertainment dollars, and that's what college football is, ENTERTAINMENT. People aren't entertained by losing, bad food, bad restrooms, bad seating and worse parking. Ask the folks at Nashville Superspeedway how their piss poor customer service worked...

(08-23-2011 01:42 PM)BuccTiger Wrote:  

(08-23-2011 08:18 AM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  Memphis doesn't draw 13000 unless they're playing Ole Miss, Miss. State or Tennessee, and it's their fans. Need I remind you of the 4500 game with East Carolina a couple of years ago? ESPN had to change it's production techniques in order to keep from showing an empty stadium.
Last season there were 21 schools that averaged more than 13,000 per game, and only 35 that averaged over 10,000. Now, while that doesn't create the major college atmosphere, you can create a pretty good one if you built your stadium properly.

(08-23-2011 12:08 AM)BuccTiger Wrote:  I'm sorry but 13,000 for a college football game sucks. Even if you could get it for every game, it wouldn't generate enough revenue to begin to cover expenses.

13,000 is a joke.

I don't know why I come to this board and get sucked into this.

13,000 is a joke.

This isn't about Memphis, but 13,000 is a joke when it happens at Memphis. The last 3 years or so of attendance at Memphis football games has been bad, real bad. However, in years where they had decent teams it was more in the 30K range. Even in years where they had attendence at those levels, Memphis still lost millions of dollars on football. If it weren't for a basketball program that makes millions I don't think they could afford football, even with 30K attendance. Just IMHO of course.

13,000 is a joke, and ETSU probably didn't average half that 90% of the time.

I was at the football game between ETSU and UTC in Chattanooga in 2002..They said they had 3,800 at the game..didn't look to be that many to me..I remember talking to some UTC fans that day about the excitement at basketball games between our schools compared to almost none for football..
We spent five minutes trying to think of something that would cause our communities to care about football.. and then spent an hour talking about the upcoming basketball season..
I've thought about that a lot since then..and I believe the Tri Cities would support ETSU football if we had a consistant WINNER..If we have a program that wins 7 plus games each year and competes for championships and has a shot at the playoffs on a regular basis..then I really believe we could fill a 15,000 seat stadium...
It would take not just putting a team out there..but putting a bunch of money into it to make it a contender .. we saw some pretty good crowds in years when we had good teams.. the problem was most years we had under-funded bad teams that nobody cared much about..
So when we do it ..I hope we do it right this time...

Money can't fix it if you don't have the leadership structure in place that knows how to spend it. I can tell you now, with the price of UT tickets being what they are comparative to where the program is, this would've been a golden era for ETSU to have won over some fans with winning football and a great gameday experience from the time they park their vehicle until the time they left. Chattanooga has committed to making that happen, and they're bringing more and more fans in every year. ETSU is sitting around with its' head up its' arse.

(08-23-2011 09:16 PM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  Money can't fix it if you don't have the leadership structure in place that knows how to spend it. I can tell you now, with the price of UT tickets being what they are comparative to where the program is, this would've been a golden era for ETSU to have won over some fans with winning football and a great gameday experience from the time they park their vehicle until the time they left. Chattanooga has committed to making that happen, and they're bringing more and more fans in every year. ETSU is sitting around with its' head up its' arse.

Hopefully this will embarrassment will end in early January.

(08-23-2011 09:16 PM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  Money can't fix it if you don't have the leadership structure in place that knows how to spend it. I can tell you now, with the price of UT tickets being what they are comparative to where the program is, this would've been a golden era for ETSU to have won over some fans with winning football and a great gameday experience from the time they park their vehicle until the time they left. Chattanooga has committed to making that happen, and they're bringing more and more fans in every year. ETSU is sitting around with its' head up its' arse.

I agree, and hopefully we will get a new administration that is dedicated to football and to properly funding the program..and not another bunch that will want to give us a non-scholarship program..or as we have always had.. an underfunded.. limited scholarship program.. with no chance of competing with the schools that value football.. I would rather have no football team than have one that has to complete at a huge disadvantage!!!!! If we do it..... Let's do it right this time....

And I will keep saying it until the message resonates with the university, football foundation, alums, fans and the people that kiss Dave's boots. Proper funding and winning is only part of the formula. To be done right, it's all about everything surrounding the game, and must be tailored to everyone. Families, students and meatheads who like to drink. I think everyone will say that when it comes back that it has to be something that doesn't just win, but is attractive from an entertainment standpoint for all.

Buccaneerlover... you are my favorite poster. Your wisdom is evident and you criticize with encouragement. Your passion needs to spread far and wide. Tennessee has demonstrated you can have passionate fans even with a losing team. Bucs should have such a following.

I can criticize and be an @$$ about it too, but I'd rather see people on the board quit pissing and moaning about what toolbags Dave and Paul are and work towards getting both a product on the field that wins and is entertaining and provides a positive experience for people in the stands. I'm really not looking to be critical, I'm looking to see ETSU bring a consistently successful football program on the field, in the classroom and out in the community. These things can be done, especially at the FCS level.