I'm not asking whether your school should drop baseball so don't answer it that way. Would MAC baseball be better off with eight or nine teams instead of twelve? Would conference financials improve? What are the pros and cons to keeping the sport as a requirement for membership?

If the MAC does not have at least 3 full participation sports for the men, it starts to lose its meaning as a conference. We already have too many sports with few teams in them, filled out by a bunch on non-MAC teams. Perhaps the MAC should only sponsor full participation sports and drop its sponsorship of sports that only have 5-6 true MAC members.

(05-22-2011 05:41 PM)axeme Wrote:  If the MAC does not have at least 3 full participation sports for the men, it starts to lose its meaning as a conference. We already have too many sports with few teams in them, filled out by a bunch on non-MAC teams. Perhaps the MAC should only sponsor full participation sports and drop its sponsorship of sports that only have 5-6 true MAC members.

Maybe they should. The MAC should only sponsor a sport that they can get at least half of the full members to sponsor, so no sports with 5 full members and a bunch of "partner" teams. But would baseball be one of them if it wasn't already mandatory?

Maybe, maybe not if the MAC were forming in 2011, but I think a full participation sport in each season is important. And what sport would that be in the spring if not baseball?

Maybe others know more, but I think the MAC Presidents agreed last year that the priority sports are: football, M&W basketball, baseball and volleyball. Think it turned out to be 3 Men’s and 2 Women’s sports; or maybe baseball was dropped and it was 2 and 2. I don’t remember. The point was to identify the sports the MAC would require all member schools to field teams and support.

Members could, obviously, support teams in other sports with an awareness that they are not a conference priority.

The four priority sports are M/W basketball, football, and volleyball. That's it.

And instead of baseball and softball being the mandatory spring sport, it could simply be Track & Field.

(05-22-2011 05:41 PM)axeme Wrote:  If the MAC does not have at least 3 full participation sports for the men, it starts to lose its meaning as a conference. We already have too many sports with few teams in them, filled out by a bunch on non-MAC teams. Perhaps the MAC should only sponsor full participation sports and drop its sponsorship of sports that only have 5-6 true MAC members.

But why baseball? it makes no geographical sense for the MAC!

Football, Basketball, and Track/CC or Swimming, or Wrestling..

(05-22-2011 07:09 PM)axeme Wrote:  Maybe, maybe not if the MAC were forming in 2011, but I think a full participation sport in each season is important. And what sport would that be in the spring if not baseball?

That's a legitimate point. But there's just not many spring sports. T&F is a good choice. Lacrosse would be out-of-the box thinking. Men's volleyball? That might be a winter sport.

I support cutting baseball loose. I understand why Kent would be against it, but it hurts us more than helps us.

I could not check either option. They are not mutually exclusive and I do not entirely agree with either one. 12 members is better only if they are committed to the sport. If a MAC school drops Baseball, I don't necessarilly think of them as dead weight. What-if Kent St decides to drop Baseball to focus on Basketball & Football since those two have the potential to generate revenue. Ouch!

However, as much as I would like the MAC make it easier to have more Hockey programs, I'd hate to see too many MAC schools give up on Baseball. Honestly I'd prefer Track & Field as a required men's and women's sport but that's another story. I do agree though that northern conferences are struggling to field competitive teams in Baseball and Softball. They can only push the schedule so far into Spring and travelling on the road for a month has got to be expensive.

Why not name like 6 main sports, and say that a school has to be in 4 of the 6, or 5 of the 6? Say FB, MBB, WBB, Baseball, Softball, T&F. And you have to be in 4 (or 5) of them to be a full-time member.

(05-22-2011 07:21 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  The four priority sports are M/W basketball, football, and volleyball. That's it.

And instead of baseball and softball being the mandatory spring sport, it could simply be Track & Field.

Only 6 schools have men's T&F. We're going to ask the other six to start it up after some of them dropped it over the last several decades? I don't see the will to do that when all have always had baseball.

It is possible to play nationally competitive baseball in the MAC. KSU proves that. Miami, Ball St., Ohio, and others have great baseball traditions and have had many players go on to MLB.

Baseball suffers from the same problems that football and basketball do: really lousy programs and no or inadequate effort or investment to be better. I see no reason to think if we forced the six schools who don't have T&F to have it that it would be any different.

I understand that Akron would be better off if they could drop their lousy baseball program and focus on their good T&F program, but I don't see that the MAC would be better by adding T&F teams from schools that already have decided they couldn't support it. It might be better off if schools that don't want to compete in the conference's required sports find a conference that better matches their will to compete in their sports of choice.

What I see is a long, slow deterioration of the quality of MAC sports across the board, particularly men's sports. Only a few schools are competitive across a wide range of sports. Many just go through the motions. That's what we need to deal with: do something to force/motivate our schools to up the the competitive level of baseball and basketball and football. Changing the required sports just shifts the problem to another sport with no promise or plan that it will be any better than the one it is replacing.

(05-22-2011 07:30 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  But why baseball? it makes no geographical sense for the MAC!

Football, Basketball, and Track/CC or Swimming, or Wrestling..

You're right, since there are no professional baseball teams in the
Midwest.

You can't expect professional baseball players to play in the Midwest. It rains and snows!

(05-22-2011 08:04 PM)BarnardHall211 Wrote:  

(05-22-2011 07:30 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  But why baseball? it makes no geographical sense for the MAC!

Football, Basketball, and Track/CC or Swimming, or Wrestling..

You're right, since there are no professional baseball teams in the
Midwest.

You can't expect professional baseball players to play in the Midwest. It rains and snows!

Since professional baseball in the midwest starts in February and ends in early may

Where are those players in the waning months of the winter? Holy crap they do spring practice in Florida! Shenanigans!! If the pros consider the mid-west climate too dour for practice until April why the hell do you think Mid Major Schools on far less forgiving budgets should be required to field these teams..

(05-22-2011 07:55 PM)axeme Wrote:  

(05-22-2011 07:21 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  The four priority sports are M/W basketball, football, and volleyball. That's it.

And instead of baseball and softball being the mandatory spring sport, it could simply be Track & Field.

Only 6 schools have men's T&F. We're going to ask the other six to start it up after some of them dropped it over the last several decades? I don't see the will to do that when all have always had baseball.

It is possible to play nationally competitive baseball in the MAC. KSU proves that. Miami, Ball St., Ohio, and others have great baseball traditions and have had many players go on to MLB.

Baseball suffers from the same problems that football and basketball do: really lousy programs and no or inadequate effort or investment to be better. I see no reason to think if we forced the six schools who don't have T&F to have it that it would be any different.

I understand that Akron would be better off if they could drop their lousy baseball program and focus on their good T&F program, but I don't see that the MAC would be better by adding T&F teams from schools that already have decided they couldn't support it. It might be better off if schools that don't want to compete in the conference's required sports find a conference that better matches their will to compete in their sports of choice.

What I see is a long, slow deterioration of the quality of MAC sports across the board, particularly men's sports. Only a few schools are competitive across a wide range of sports. Many just go through the motions. That's what we need to deal with: do something to force/motivate our schools to up the the competitive level of baseball and basketball and football. Changing the required sports just shifts the problem to another sport with no promise or plan that it will be any better than the one it is replacing.

Budget wise I think T&F will cost most schools less than baseball (in the mid to long term)... Usually you double up a lot of the coaching staff between men's and women's teams (not to mention often track coaches also serve as CC coaches)

I would venture a guess that the 6 schools dropped T&F because they had to fund baseball instead.

(05-22-2011 07:35 PM)OZoner Wrote:  That's a legitimate point. But there's just not many spring sports. T&F is a good choice. Lacrosse would be out-of-the box thinking. Men's volleyball? That might be a winter sport.

I support cutting baseball loose. I understand why Kent would be against it, but it hurts us more than helps us.

Lacrosse would be a great substitute for Baseball, much stronger programs in the north East and mid west versus baseball..

Kent State won the Reese Cup for best overall Men’s Athletics for the third year in a row. We are well on our way to another Director’s Cup. Not sure we’re looking for any advice on how to run the department. Thanks anyway.

(05-22-2011 10:28 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  I would venture a guess that the 6 schools dropped T&F because they had to fund baseball instead.

Yep.

FlashFan: Who was telling Kent how to run things?

Axeme: Kent's national competitiveness is by far the exception. As you yourself have pointed out, they're the only northern school in the top 50. Is it possible to be relevant? Yes. Is it probable? No. Is it a wise investment of resources? No. Heck, Kent would probably be better off if MAC schools dropped baseball...

I don't think anyone is saying baseball should go away. But it shouldn't be required.

(05-22-2011 07:21 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  The four priority sports are M/W basketball, football, and volleyball. That's it.

And instead of baseball and softball being the mandatory spring sport, it could simply be Track & Field.

Or soccer.

(05-22-2011 10:28 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  I would venture a guess that the 6 schools dropped T&F because they had to fund baseball instead.

I'd agree if by baseball you mean football. Football funding is the largest elephant in the athletic room. Baseball is a pittance comparatively.

Saying schools dropped men's T&F because of baseball is simply not supportable. There are much bigger reasons. Football drives athletic budgeting, from basketball to Title IX to wrestling, track and other men's sports. Schools drop men's sports because they want to keep feeding at the football trough, which is the most expensive of all college sports, particularly as a percentage of the overall athletic budget at MAC schools.