(03-28-2011 03:02 PM)axeme Wrote:  Whatever history a school has that does not connect directly to the present is irrelevant today. Being relevant in the 1950's doesn't mean much now and that is pretty much Bradley's heyday. KSU is clearly the better program in the modern tournament era. More tourney appearances, more wins.

It's a move up because they can offer of package potentially worth over $900K per year and MAC schools cannot match that. As one commentator put it, Kent is a better program in competitive terms, but because of the resources, Bradley is a better job.

If Bradley wasn't relevant in the 1950s (and 30s and 60s and 80s... ever heard of Hersey Hawkins?), they wouldn't average 9k and have sparkling facilities and be able to offer 700k base to a coach. Bradley is #26 on the all time wins list and has 33 postseason appearances (consider there has only been a postseason for 73 years, and for the first few decades there were only spots for a couple dozen teams). Bradley was one of 6 teams invited to the first ever NIT and NCAA in 1939; Kent didn't make its first NCAA until 1999.

Kent is building its tradition from scratch, and doing a good job of it, but it takes winning for generations to build the kind of loyalty and season ticket base you'll find in Peoria. Look at Butler--they made the national title game and still played most of their games in front of a half full arena this season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Bra...basketball
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_...basketball

Wow, Bradley was good when my mom was in high school. Maybe we should go hang out at the Drive-In and have a root bear float.

(03-28-2011 07:22 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

(03-28-2011 03:02 PM)axeme Wrote:  Whatever history a school has that does not connect directly to the present is irrelevant today. Being relevant in the 1950's doesn't mean much now and that is pretty much Bradley's heyday. KSU is clearly the better program in the modern tournament era. More tourney appearances, more wins.

It's a move up because they can offer of package potentially worth over $900K per year and MAC schools cannot match that. As one commentator put it, Kent is a better program in competitive terms, but because of the resources, Bradley is a better job.

If Bradley wasn't relevant in the 1950s (and 30s and 60s and 80s... ever heard of Hersey Hawkins?), they wouldn't average 9k and have sparkling facilities and be able to offer 700k base to a coach. Bradley is #26 on the all time wins list and has 33 postseason appearances (consider there has only been a postseason for 73 years, and for the first few decades there were only spots for a couple dozen teams). Bradley was one of 6 teams invited to the first ever NIT and NCAA in 1939; Kent didn't make its first NCAA until 1999.

Kent is building its tradition from scratch, and doing a good job of it, but it takes winning for generations to build the kind of loyalty and season ticket base you'll find in Peoria. Look at Butler--they made the national title game and still played most of their games in front of a half full arena this season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Bra...basketball
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_...basketball

So now Bradley is a better program than Butler? Huh?

Nobody is saying Bradley doesn't have a lot of money and more fans. That's a given. I don't find that a particularly interesting detail, but I know some people drool over attendance numbers and facilities. I don't, but to each their own. They don't have a better basketball team in the last 10-15 years, and that is what is relevant to me because it's a time frame that connects to the present situation.

What is the point of the tradition, the history, the fans, the money, the facilities if you don't win more basketball games? I mean, it's great for their fans and I appreciate that they loves them some Braves basketball, but beyond Peoria, it's been very spotty for them for 20+ years. KSU has been better. More consistent. More success.

I know Bradley's history. We seem to be talking about different things here. Kent will never match the history of programs whose greatest days were several decades ago because you can't go back in time. Let's hear it for Loyola-Chicago--they have a national championship in the 60's. Doesn't make them more relevant today.

Oh, don't you remember White Shoe Laces Johnson and when he invented the jump shot at Bradley in the 20s? Man, that's tradition.

I mean, you can't beat their wrestling tradition when Abe Lincoln was on Bradley's wrestling team. I remember the time he beat that bear from Eureka College. And he was a bear too, not a human, a bear. Of course, the bear ate his girlfriend after the match and Lincoln spent the next year wondering around the woods in Springfield all depressed.

That, of course, was before Mary Todd (soon to be: Lincoln).

http://kent.patch.com/articles/ford-gave...at-bradley

Ouch.

Yep, class act all around. Kind of like when scientists at Bradley University invented electricity by weaving it into carpet fibers.

(03-28-2011 07:44 PM)axeme Wrote:  

(03-28-2011 07:22 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

(03-28-2011 03:02 PM)axeme Wrote:  Whatever history a school has that does not connect directly to the present is irrelevant today. Being relevant in the 1950's doesn't mean much now and that is pretty much Bradley's heyday. KSU is clearly the better program in the modern tournament era. More tourney appearances, more wins.

It's a move up because they can offer of package potentially worth over $900K per year and MAC schools cannot match that. As one commentator put it, Kent is a better program in competitive terms, but because of the resources, Bradley is a better job.

If Bradley wasn't relevant in the 1950s (and 30s and 60s and 80s... ever heard of Hersey Hawkins?), they wouldn't average 9k and have sparkling facilities and be able to offer 700k base to a coach. Bradley is #26 on the all time wins list and has 33 postseason appearances (consider there has only been a postseason for 73 years, and for the first few decades there were only spots for a couple dozen teams). Bradley was one of 6 teams invited to the first ever NIT and NCAA in 1939; Kent didn't make its first NCAA until 1999.

Kent is building its tradition from scratch, and doing a good job of it, but it takes winning for generations to build the kind of loyalty and season ticket base you'll find in Peoria. Look at Butler--they made the national title game and still played most of their games in front of a half full arena this season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Bra...basketball
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_...basketball

So now Bradley is a better program than Butler? Huh?

Nobody is saying Bradley doesn't have a lot of money and more fans. That's a given. I don't find that a particularly interesting detail, but I know some people drool over attendance numbers and facilities. I don't, but to each their own. They don't have a better basketball team in the last 10-15 years, and that is what is relevant to me because it's a time frame that connects to the present situation.

What is the point of the tradition, the history, the fans, the money, the facilities if you don't win more basketball games? I mean, it's great for their fans and I appreciate that they loves them some Braves basketball, but beyond Peoria, it's been very spotty for them for 20+ years. KSU has been better. More consistent. More success.

I know Bradley's history. We seem to be talking about different things here. Kent will never match the history of programs whose greatest days were several decades ago because you can't go back in time. Let's hear it for Loyola-Chicago--they have a national championship in the 60's. Doesn't make them more relevant today.

I didn't say Bradley is a better "program" than Butler, because the team itself is in shambles, but their season ticket base is larger, due to their sustained success through the decades. As a born and raised Peorian, I can tell you many season tickets are passed down from generation to generation. How many Kent State tickets are written into wills?

I don't see the logic behind counting only the last 10-15 years in judging the strength of a program. Only the last 4-5 years' results matter as far as returning talent is concerned, but the prior decades matter with regard to everything else. If I'm Geno, I look at Kent's roster and see it is built for far more success than Bradley's. But I also look to the facilities in Peoria, which will give me an advantage when giving tours to recruits; I see film of the arena packed with 11k to watch the Braves drag Michigan State to the wire a few years back and think about the homecourt advantage; oh and I see a contract that might triple my salary.

Kent has had a great run this last decade but those NCAA auto bids would be more difficult to come by if they played in the Valley, a conference that has been rated as high as 6th. Likewise, Bradley would probably have more NCAA appearances if it played in the MAC.

The point to all the money, facilities etc is that it gives you a higher ceiling. Bradley has underachieved the last decade or two and bungled some personnel decisions (Exhibit A: running off Danny Granger) but the ceiling is still there.

My point was that the winning in the 30s through 80s is relevant because it built the foundation (read: season ticket and donor base) which allows them to fire coaches on a whim and drive the Brinks truck up to the next hot Horizon or MAC coach. Kent will win more games next year, but if I had to wager on the wins for Bradley and Kent over the next 20 years, I know where my money would be.

(03-28-2011 07:31 PM)bopol Wrote:  Wow, Bradley was good when my mom was in high school. Maybe we should go hang out at the Drive-In and have a root bear float.

Sounds like a dangerous drink.

(03-28-2011 08:39 PM)OZoner Wrote:  

(03-28-2011 07:31 PM)bopol Wrote:  Wow, Bradley was good when my mom was in high school. Maybe we should go hang out at the Drive-In and have a root bear float.

Sounds like a dangerous drink.

Drinking those could have grizzly results.

(03-28-2011 08:39 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

(03-28-2011 07:44 PM)axeme Wrote:  

(03-28-2011 07:22 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

(03-28-2011 03:02 PM)axeme Wrote:  Whatever history a school has that does not connect directly to the present is irrelevant today. Being relevant in the 1950's doesn't mean much now and that is pretty much Bradley's heyday. KSU is clearly the better program in the modern tournament era. More tourney appearances, more wins.

It's a move up because they can offer of package potentially worth over $900K per year and MAC schools cannot match that. As one commentator put it, Kent is a better program in competitive terms, but because of the resources, Bradley is a better job.

If Bradley wasn't relevant in the 1950s (and 30s and 60s and 80s... ever heard of Hersey Hawkins?), they wouldn't average 9k and have sparkling facilities and be able to offer 700k base to a coach. Bradley is #26 on the all time wins list and has 33 postseason appearances (consider there has only been a postseason for 73 years, and for the first few decades there were only spots for a couple dozen teams). Bradley was one of 6 teams invited to the first ever NIT and NCAA in 1939; Kent didn't make its first NCAA until 1999.

Kent is building its tradition from scratch, and doing a good job of it, but it takes winning for generations to build the kind of loyalty and season ticket base you'll find in Peoria. Look at Butler--they made the national title game and still played most of their games in front of a half full arena this season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Bra...basketball
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_...basketball

So now Bradley is a better program than Butler? Huh?

Nobody is saying Bradley doesn't have a lot of money and more fans. That's a given. I don't find that a particularly interesting detail, but I know some people drool over attendance numbers and facilities. I don't, but to each their own. They don't have a better basketball team in the last 10-15 years, and that is what is relevant to me because it's a time frame that connects to the present situation.

What is the point of the tradition, the history, the fans, the money, the facilities if you don't win more basketball games? I mean, it's great for their fans and I appreciate that they loves them some Braves basketball, but beyond Peoria, it's been very spotty for them for 20+ years. KSU has been better. More consistent. More success.

I know Bradley's history. We seem to be talking about different things here. Kent will never match the history of programs whose greatest days were several decades ago because you can't go back in time. Let's hear it for Loyola-Chicago--they have a national championship in the 60's. Doesn't make them more relevant today.

I didn't say Bradley is a better "program" than Butler, because the team itself is in shambles, but their season ticket base is larger, due to their sustained success through the decades. As a born and raised Peorian, I can tell you many season tickets are passed down from generation to generation. How many Kent State tickets are written into wills?

I don't see the logic behind counting only the last 10-15 years in judging the strength of a program. Only the last 4-5 years' results matter as far as returning talent is concerned, but the prior decades matter with regard to everything else. If I'm Geno, I look at Kent's roster and see it is built for far more success than Bradley's. But I also look to the facilities in Peoria, which will give me an advantage when giving tours to recruits; I see film of the arena packed with 11k to watch the Braves drag Michigan State to the wire a few years back and think about the homecourt advantage; oh and I see a contract that might triple my salary.

Kent has had a great run this last decade but those NCAA auto bids would be more difficult to come by if they played in the Valley, a conference that has been rated as high as 6th. Likewise, Bradley would probably have more NCAA appearances if it played in the MAC.

The point to all the money, facilities etc is that it gives you a higher ceiling. Bradley has underachieved the last decade or two and bungled some personnel decisions (Exhibit A: running off Danny Granger) but the ceiling is still there.

My point was that the winning in the 30s through 80s is relevant because it built the foundation (read: season ticket and donor base) which allows them to fire coaches on a whim and drive the Brinks truck up to the next hot Horizon or MAC coach. Kent will win more games next year, but if I had to wager on the wins for Bradley and Kent over the next 20 years, I know where my money would be.

Those Bradley tickets are going to be a lot easier to come by when Catepillar leaves Peoria.

(03-28-2011 08:39 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

(03-28-2011 07:44 PM)axeme Wrote:  

(03-28-2011 07:22 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

(03-28-2011 03:02 PM)axeme Wrote:  Whatever history a school has that does not connect directly to the present is irrelevant today. Being relevant in the 1950's doesn't mean much now and that is pretty much Bradley's heyday. KSU is clearly the better program in the modern tournament era. More tourney appearances, more wins.

It's a move up because they can offer of package potentially worth over $900K per year and MAC schools cannot match that. As one commentator put it, Kent is a better program in competitive terms, but because of the resources, Bradley is a better job.

If Bradley wasn't relevant in the 1950s (and 30s and 60s and 80s... ever heard of Hersey Hawkins?), they wouldn't average 9k and have sparkling facilities and be able to offer 700k base to a coach. Bradley is #26 on the all time wins list and has 33 postseason appearances (consider there has only been a postseason for 73 years, and for the first few decades there were only spots for a couple dozen teams). Bradley was one of 6 teams invited to the first ever NIT and NCAA in 1939; Kent didn't make its first NCAA until 1999.

Kent is building its tradition from scratch, and doing a good job of it, but it takes winning for generations to build the kind of loyalty and season ticket base you'll find in Peoria. Look at Butler--they made the national title game and still played most of their games in front of a half full arena this season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Bra...basketball
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_...basketball

So now Bradley is a better program than Butler? Huh?

Nobody is saying Bradley doesn't have a lot of money and more fans. That's a given. I don't find that a particularly interesting detail, but I know some people drool over attendance numbers and facilities. I don't, but to each their own. They don't have a better basketball team in the last 10-15 years, and that is what is relevant to me because it's a time frame that connects to the present situation.

What is the point of the tradition, the history, the fans, the money, the facilities if you don't win more basketball games? I mean, it's great for their fans and I appreciate that they loves them some Braves basketball, but beyond Peoria, it's been very spotty for them for 20+ years. KSU has been better. More consistent. More success.

I know Bradley's history. We seem to be talking about different things here. Kent will never match the history of programs whose greatest days were several decades ago because you can't go back in time. Let's hear it for Loyola-Chicago--they have a national championship in the 60's. Doesn't make them more relevant today.

I didn't say Bradley is a better "program" than Butler, because the team itself is in shambles, but their season ticket base is larger, due to their sustained success through the decades. As a born and raised Peorian, I can tell you many season tickets are passed down from generation to generation. How many Kent State tickets are written into wills?

I don't see the logic behind counting only the last 10-15 years in judging the strength of a program. Only the last 4-5 years' results matter as far as returning talent is concerned, but the prior decades matter with regard to everything else. If I'm Geno, I look at Kent's roster and see it is built for far more success than Bradley's. But I also look to the facilities in Peoria, which will give me an advantage when giving tours to recruits; I see film of the arena packed with 11k to watch the Braves drag Michigan State to the wire a few years back and think about the homecourt advantage; oh and I see a contract that might triple my salary.

Kent has had a great run this last decade but those NCAA auto bids would be more difficult to come by if they played in the Valley, a conference that has been rated as high as 6th. Likewise, Bradley would probably have more NCAA appearances if it played in the MAC.

The point to all the money, facilities etc is that it gives you a higher ceiling. Bradley has underachieved the last decade or two and bungled some personnel decisions (Exhibit A: running off Danny Granger) but the ceiling is still there.

My point was that the winning in the 30s through 80s is relevant because it built the foundation (read: season ticket and donor base) which allows them to fire coaches on a whim and drive the Brinks truck up to the next hot Horizon or MAC coach. Kent will win more games next year, but if I had to wager on the wins for Bradley and Kent over the next 20 years, I know where my money would be.

All great points, and from Bradley's perspective: They couldn't get anyone better? They didn't even wait until the Final Four when most coaches are hired. I like what Ford has accomplished the past two years with basically two different rosters, but he doesn't have an NCAA Tournament appearance.

From Ford's perspective: He has a potentially top 40 team coming back. He could easily get a job like this by simply winning the MAC tournament next year. Bradley has a lot of positives, but will he have enough time to capitalize on those recruiting advantages? Bradley isn't paying him that salary for a five-year rebuild.

From Bradley's perspective, go to hell and get off this board. Your school handled this like s**t and I hope your team sucks and Catepillar leaves Peoria for any place else. Next time, show a little class and don't take a dump on my institution.

(03-28-2011 10:46 PM)bopol Wrote:  From Bradley's perspective, go to hell and get off this board. Your school handled this like s**t and I hope your team sucks and Catepillar leaves Peoria for any place else. Next time, show a little class and don't take a dump on my institution.

Good point.

Ok, I didn't see the contract or how much Bradley draws per game. I just looked at it from an initial reaction. But, I guess we got our coach from UW-Milwaukee, which many didn't consider a move to Toledo as a step-up.

(03-28-2011 09:54 PM)KStud Wrote:  All great points, and from Bradley's perspective: They couldn't get anyone better? They didn't even wait until the Final Four when most coaches are hired. I like what Ford has accomplished the past two years with basically two different rosters, but he doesn't have an NCAA Tournament appearance.

From Ford's perspective: He has a potentially top 40 team coming back. He could easily get a job like this by simply winning the MAC tournament next year. Bradley has a lot of positives, but will he have enough time to capitalize on those recruiting advantages? Bradley isn't paying him that salary for a five-year rebuild.

I've heard rumors they offered UW-M's Rob Jeter, Oral Roberts' Scott Sutton and Long Beach's Dan Monson the same terms. I hear those guys declined due to the fact the Bradley president has a reputation of being a micromanager and is hard to work for. The former Bradley coach and AD had several public spats with her. I heard a conflicting rumor that Jeter demanded a 7 year contract and BU declined. The BU AD denies he made any other offer. I'm not that close so I don't know what to believe.

I agree, it'll take patience from Bradley to rebuild. But here's something to consider, and it might explain why they went after Ford: Ford tried to recruit 2 BU players--Simms-Edwards (Bradley's leading returning scorer who asked for a release last week and was interviewed last night and said he loves the hire and is reconsidering leaving) and Jordan Prosser--to Kent State, so that might help keep the roster intact. Not to mention Kent State has 2 orally committed recruits from Illinois.

Quote:From Bradley's perspective, go to hell and get off this board. Your school handled this like s**t and I hope your team sucks and Catepillar leaves Peoria for any place else. Next time, show a little class and don't take a dump on my institution.

I agree that the hire was mishandled by not informing his players before accepting the deal. It reminds me of Jerry Kill's departure to Minnesota and Chandler Harnish reportedly hearing about the move from his brother. That's very disappointing.

(03-29-2011 06:26 AM)Rocket_Fanatic Wrote:  Ok, I didn't see the contract or how much Bradley draws per game. I just looked at it from an initial reaction. But, I guess we got our coach from UW-Milwaukee, which many didn't consider a move to Toledo as a step-up.

Actually, you got him from Green Bay, not Milwaukee.

(03-29-2011 07:43 AM)Max Power Wrote:  

Quote:From Bradley's perspective, go to hell and get off this board. Your school handled this like s**t and I hope your team sucks and Catepillar leaves Peoria for any place else. Next time, show a little class and don't take a dump on my institution.

I agree that the hire was mishandled by not informing his players before accepting the deal. It reminds me of Jerry Kill's departure to Minnesota and Chandler Harnish reportedly hearing about the move from his brother. That's very disappointing.

Good. You agree. Now go away and take your stinking Braves and your crappy traditition of being a good team when my grampa was stealing cars in his teens with you. Cause it's ancient history and no one here gives a darn.

My purpose is not to "take a dump" on Kent, but rather the opposite: to show that BU is in fact one of a handful of midmajors that are analogous to a low-level BCS job (like Ford says in the below article), and so therefore this move isn't so alarming from Kent or the MAC's perspective. There is no shame in losing a coach to Bradley.

http://www.pjstar.com/bradleyhoops/x1664...eys-vision

And no I'm not leaving. I'm an NIU fan, and that's why I read these boards. I've made my point though so I'll stay out of this thread.