Fight! Fight! A Cougar and a Knight!!


I feel like I'm back in Junior High....

Seems like the smoke that the OP smelled was actually from the flame war in this thread!

(12-16-2010 11:33 AM)chrisharper80 Wrote:  Houston's stadium expansion plan is for $120 million:

http://www.uhcougars.com/sports/m-footbl...10aaf.html

Looks promising!

(12-16-2010 11:35 AM)Goldenbuc Wrote:  UCF played off-campus in the Citrus Bowl until 2007...there's nothing like the on-campus stadium atmposphere compared.

Not really an accurate comparison. The Citrus Bowl is a dump. You are comparing a brand new on campus stadium, versus a shithole of a stadium. A friend of mine works on the production crew for WWE, and he told me WWE had to spend $7 million a few years ago just to make the Citrus Bowl presentable for TV to hold Wrestlemania there.

(12-16-2010 11:35 AM)Goldenbuc Wrote:  The Magic just opened a spectacular arena downtown and we played UF there. But I'd rather UCF play in our own new arena on campus, anytime.

As I said, basketball arenas are a little different, because of the uses for them, how you can scale down the costs to fit the univeristy needs, and the number of days you can book them. When you combine those three, plus the fact that the NBA arenas in a particular town are usually booked year round anyway, and are not sitting empty like a football stadium, it is a different dynamic. I am mainly talking about football stadiums, the ones that cost between $200 million and $1 billion, yet sit empty 95% of the time, and are otherwise open on Saturdays, with only small events planned.

The smoke I smell seems to be coming from a joint, Joe Rod...

WHO'S BOGARTING?

(12-16-2010 11:35 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 11:22 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  Cost. An on campus stadium and arena will bring money to the university as opposed to being a cost. As a state university we are required to have a balanced budget. Playing in those arenas in the short term is a no brainer if it means access to the BCS.

This is incorrect. Newer football stadiums are almost always money losers, when you compare the cost to build to the revenue generated AND used to pay off the debt. Nearly 100% losses. They make money for the teams that use it due to lopsided lease terms, and because donations are used to build them, but if you truely look at the cost, they ALL lose money. The only reason I cannot say 100% lose money, is because of domes; some of those do make money. On campus facilities will make even less money, not more, because they lose the ability to use the suites, lounges, club rooms etc, on a more daily basis, like downtown stadiums/arenas do. This is why nearly every new professional facility is built in a downtown area, even though it adds $100 million or so to the pricetag.

If the university was paying for it yes. The new facility will not be paid with state funds. I believe that we could not even use if we wanted to but I could be wrong on that.

Bottom line the new facilities Will be paid with donations and sponsorship. The university will own the stadium and any money coming in. We also use our current stadium (as we will for our new stadium) for other events in the offseason.

Right now (but not in the long term because they just got approved for their own stadium) we have the Houston Dynamo as a tenant. This is in addition to any possible concerts, exhibition soccer matches (already played here in addition to Reliant), and any number of other uses that will be money coming straight to the university instead of an outside company.

(12-16-2010 09:41 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 09:11 AM)saxamoophone Wrote:  -Houston would probably be the front runner for #12, but may need a few years (once again, say 2015) to upgrade their basketball facility to BCS standards (from what I understand it’s not in the best of shape..something about homeless people living in it?).

Homeless people? Really? Do we (and are we) need to upgrade. Yes! But that process is in motion. Fundraising in this economy is a challenge. We will break ground on our new FB stadium once the naming rights are announced.

Geeze the sense of entitlement and you guys are not even in the league yet. UCF's pimping is so old. All I see posted by most UCF people is stuff other people say about them "belonging". Provide real reasons other than your best friend says the popular guy in school may "like" you..... Insert giggling here.

It's an expansion board and it just shows UCF has a larger/more active fanbase than Houston. Believe UCF's rivals site might be one of the most active non BCS boards.

(12-16-2010 09:11 AM)saxamoophone Wrote:  

Quote:Iliana Limón: Still hearing lots of positive talk about UCF to the Big East in all sports. All schools except USF seem to be supporting the move.

if there is any truth to this, shouldn't the State of Florida jump in since USF and UCF are both big public schools in the State of Florida? No one ever mentions this, how can they allow USF to aid in blocking an action that would bring money to a public University and would be good for the that region of the state?

(12-16-2010 11:41 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 11:35 AM)Goldenbuc Wrote:  UCF played off-campus in the Citrus Bowl until 2007...there's nothing like the on-campus stadium atmposphere compared.

Not really an accurate comparison. The Citrus Bowl is a dump. You are comparing a brand new on campus stadium, versus a shithole of a stadium. A friend of mine works on the production crew for WWE, and he told me WWE had to spend $7 million a few years ago just to make the Citrus Bowl presentable for TV to hold Wrestlemania there.

(12-16-2010 11:35 AM)Goldenbuc Wrote:  The Magic just opened a spectacular arena downtown and we played UF there. But I'd rather UCF play in our own new arena on campus, anytime.

As I said, basketball arenas are a little different, because of the uses for them, how you can scale down the costs to fit the univeristy needs, and the number of days you can book them. When you combine those three, plus the fact that the NBA arenas in a particular town are usually booked year round anyway, and are not sitting empty like a football stadium, it is a different dynamic. I am mainly talking about football stadiums, the ones that cost between $200 million and $1 billion, yet sit empty 95% of the time, and are otherwise open on Saturdays, with only small events planned.

Kind of an aside, but also to support AC's point about losses and discredit the point about being off campus....but I remember when the Hornets and Magic came into the NBA in 1987 and both had brand new arena's...we are just a little more then 20 years later and BOTH have been replaced with new arena's "Downtown". So both new arena's were obsolete (for generating revenue) and both MOVED to better locations (Downtown). IMO, building an on campus stadium is better in the long run, because its in the right place. I attended some games at Pitt's old dump and the atmosphere (on campus) was much better then sharing with the Steelers. You are always going to be considered second fiddle if you are sharing and lose the "college atmosphere" that is what makes college sports so special.

(12-16-2010 11:59 AM)knightastic Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 09:11 AM)saxamoophone Wrote:  

Quote:Iliana Limón: Still hearing lots of positive talk about UCF to the Big East in all sports. All schools except USF seem to be supporting the move.

if there is any truth to this, shouldn't the State of Florida jump in since USF and UCF are both big public schools in the State of Florida? No one ever mentions this, how can they allow USF to aid in blocking an action that would bring money to a public University and would be good for the that region of the state?

Hahahaha...welcome to our world! This has been going on in the state of Texas for more than forty years.

(12-16-2010 11:59 AM)knightastic Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 09:11 AM)saxamoophone Wrote:  

Quote:Iliana Limón: Still hearing lots of positive talk about UCF to the Big East in all sports. All schools except USF seem to be supporting the move.

if there is any truth to this, shouldn't the State of Florida jump in since USF and UCF are both big public schools in the State of Florida? No one ever mentions this, how can they allow USF to aid in blocking an action that would bring money to a public University and would be good for the that region of the state?

If it *was* an issue, I imagine UCF would indeed go through the State since it would take away massive $$$$ for Florida.

But like she said, it's kind of a non-issue if they have 15 YES votes and only 1 NO.

(12-16-2010 11:59 AM)knightastic Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 09:11 AM)saxamoophone Wrote:  

Quote:Iliana Limón: Still hearing lots of positive talk about UCF to the Big East in all sports. All schools except USF seem to be supporting the move.

if there is any truth to this, shouldn't the State of Florida jump in since USF and UCF are both big public schools in the State of Florida? No one ever mentions this, how can they allow USF to aid in blocking an action that would bring money to a public University and would be good for the that region of the state?

The answer I can tell you from experience with ECU, is that the other State schools (and their supporters) wont help you out with that. Florida, Florida State and lower level D1 all would oppose helping UCF...the Virginia/Va Tech example often cited is rare, because there was only two D1 football programs in THAT state.

(12-16-2010 11:49 AM)knightastic Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 09:41 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 09:11 AM)saxamoophone Wrote:  -Houston would probably be the front runner for #12, but may need a few years (once again, say 2015) to upgrade their basketball facility to BCS standards (from what I understand it’s not in the best of shape..something about homeless people living in it?).

Homeless people? Really? Do we (and are we) need to upgrade. Yes! But that process is in motion. Fundraising in this economy is a challenge. We will break ground on our new FB stadium once the naming rights are announced.

Geeze the sense of entitlement and you guys are not even in the league yet. UCF's pimping is so old. All I see posted by most UCF people is stuff other people say about them "belonging". Provide real reasons other than your best friend says the popular guy in school may "like" you..... Insert giggling here.

It's an expansion board and it just shows UCF has a larger/more active fanbase than Houston. Believe UCF's rivals site might be one of the most active non BCS boards.

We have a bigger presense on Scout. Usually anywhere from 200-500 all the time. We have a Rivals board but it is used mostly for recruiting updates.

(12-16-2010 11:59 AM)knightastic Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 09:11 AM)saxamoophone Wrote:  

Quote:Iliana Limón: Still hearing lots of positive talk about UCF to the Big East in all sports. All schools except USF seem to be supporting the move.

if there is any truth to this, shouldn't the State of Florida jump in since USF and UCF are both big public schools in the State of Florida? No one ever mentions this, how can they allow USF to aid in blocking an action that would bring money to a public University and would be good for the that region of the state?

Happens all the time. Texas and A&M try to keep us out of everything. Its called politics

(12-16-2010 12:04 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  The answer I can tell you from experience with ECU, is that the other State schools (and their supporters) wont help you out with that. Florida, Florida State and lower level D1 all would oppose helping UCF...the Virginia/Va Tech example often cited is rare, because there was only two D1 football programs in THAT state.

Alos, if I am not mistaken, I believe the ACC was in a position where they absolutely needed Virginia's vote, since two or three of the schools opposed expansion. Thus it gave Virginia, and their governor, the power of veto on expansion altogether, and the ability to demand that Virginia Tech be included. There is nothing Florida's government could do even if they wanted to to make that sort of demand.

(12-16-2010 12:18 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 12:04 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  The answer I can tell you from experience with ECU, is that the other State schools (and their supporters) wont help you out with that. Florida, Florida State and lower level D1 all would oppose helping UCF...the Virginia/Va Tech example often cited is rare, because there was only two D1 football programs in THAT state.

Alos, if I am not mistaken, I believe the ACC was in a position where they absolutely needed Virginia's vote, since two or three of the schools opposed expansion. Thus it gave Virginia, and their governor, the power of veto on expansion altogether, and the ability to demand that Virginia Tech be included. There is nothing Florida's government could do even if they wanted to to make that sort of demand.

Exactly, the state economics in Texas, Florida and even NC are much more complex then what went on in Virginia....there are more power players and therefore; more opinions. ECU is third rung in NC and has made progress, but it will always be third rung in terms of state politics and funding. What is UCF? What is Houston? USF and TCU may not support those two and there really isnt much they can do about it. This is one of the more fascinating components to me in this whole BE expansion debate.

Would Pitt be swayed to support Temple? Was Penn State swayed to support Pitt in the Big Ten?

(12-16-2010 12:33 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 12:18 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 12:04 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  The answer I can tell you from experience with ECU, is that the other State schools (and their supporters) wont help you out with that. Florida, Florida State and lower level D1 all would oppose helping UCF...the Virginia/Va Tech example often cited is rare, because there was only two D1 football programs in THAT state.

Alos, if I am not mistaken, I believe the ACC was in a position where they absolutely needed Virginia's vote, since two or three of the schools opposed expansion. Thus it gave Virginia, and their governor, the power of veto on expansion altogether, and the ability to demand that Virginia Tech be included. There is nothing Florida's government could do even if they wanted to to make that sort of demand.

Exactly, the state economics in Texas, Florida and even NC are much more complex then what went on in Virginia....there are more power players and therefore; more opinions. ECU is third rung in NC and has made progress, but it will always be third rung in terms of state politics and funding. What is UCF? What is Houston? USF and TCU may not support those two and there really isnt much they can do about it. This is one of the more fascinating components to me in this whole BE expansion debate.

Would Pitt be swayed to support Temple? Was Penn State swayed to support Pitt in the Big Ten?

Houston is arguably sixth or seventh in Texas.

1. Texas
2. aTm
T3. Baylor/Tech
5. TCU
T6. Houston/UTEP

They will get almost no political support.

(12-16-2010 12:44 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 12:33 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 12:18 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 12:04 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  The answer I can tell you from experience with ECU, is that the other State schools (and their supporters) wont help you out with that. Florida, Florida State and lower level D1 all would oppose helping UCF...the Virginia/Va Tech example often cited is rare, because there was only two D1 football programs in THAT state.

Alos, if I am not mistaken, I believe the ACC was in a position where they absolutely needed Virginia's vote, since two or three of the schools opposed expansion. Thus it gave Virginia, and their governor, the power of veto on expansion altogether, and the ability to demand that Virginia Tech be included. There is nothing Florida's government could do even if they wanted to to make that sort of demand.

Exactly, the state economics in Texas, Florida and even NC are much more complex then what went on in Virginia....there are more power players and therefore; more opinions. ECU is third rung in NC and has made progress, but it will always be third rung in terms of state politics and funding. What is UCF? What is Houston? USF and TCU may not support those two and there really isnt much they can do about it. This is one of the more fascinating components to me in this whole BE expansion debate.

Would Pitt be swayed to support Temple? Was Penn State swayed to support Pitt in the Big Ten?

Houston is arguably sixth or seventh in Texas.

1. Texas
2. aTm
T3. Baylor/Tech
5. TCU
T6. Houston/UTEP

They will get almost no political support.

Ehhhh I think you would be surprised how much political support we have. This is not the early 90's where we got screwed. I agree that Texas and A&M are 1 and 2 in whatever order people would like to put them.

We have as much political pull in the state as Tech but I am willing to put them 3a and us 3b to appease the naysayers.

Baylor does not have the governor in their corner and TCU is a well funded private in no need of political pull.

UTEP please.

(12-16-2010 12:18 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  Alos, if I am not mistaken, I believe the ACC was in a position where they absolutely needed Virginia's vote, since two or three of the schools opposed expansion. Thus it gave Virginia, and their governor, the power of veto on expansion altogether, and the ability to demand that Virginia Tech be included.

Right. Virginia had the leverage to demand an invitation for Va Tech because the league needed 7 of 9 schools to vote for expansion, and UNC and Duke were opposed at the time to a 12-team ACC.

About Ilianna's credibilty...

She is a REPORTER, not a commentator, not a columnist. She did not say this to "sell newspapers", this was on an online chat answering a specific question about expansion.

She has a strong record of solid reporting and integrity. When the whole Memphis/UCF thing was going on this summer she is the one who tempered the mood for UCF fans as she said that she was hearing different things from her sources than what was coming out of Memphis. She implied then that a UCF invite was NOT imment.

Part of the reason that her comments are interesting is because she DOESN'T sensationalize things. She tend to report things very "matter of fact" and is usually very neutral.

I'm not saying that UCF is going anywhere or that anything is set in stone, but for UCF fans who are actually familiar with the local media her saying something like this (and she didn't say much) is COMPLETELY different than if Mike Bianchi or Ping said something similar.

BTW... We have heard a lot of speculation about UCF from Big East media sources, this is the first time we have seen anything saying UCF might be being considered on our end. The stuff on Nova's end and Rutger's end is just interesting in that it all coraboates. Truth is the BE could have a meeting next week and everything could change, this is all just speculation.

That said I would love for fans of other non-BE schools to please post the information they are hearing about their school in their own thread, that might be more productive than crapping in this one...