Why not full membership? Is it Hawaii that wants the Different conferences or is MWC only offering Football.? Im confused with the logic. Please help? Thanks

I would assume the Big West makes more sense for their non-football sports than the MWC.

The Big West requires far less travel for an athletic department where travel is the top priority. Every school in the Big West is in California. You don't have to fly your soccer team out to Wyoming or Colorado.

(12-10-2010 07:08 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  The Big West requires far less travel for an athletic department where travel is the top priority. Every school in the Big West is in California. You don't have to fly your soccer team out to Wyoming or Colorado.

What he said plus the MWC only offered football only. Also worth noting that Hawaii is paying a travel subsidy to the other Big West teams for allowing them back in the conference. (Hawaii has a lot of rivals in the Big West from being in that conference before joining the WAC).

It's a mutually agreeable arrangement. The MWC really only wants Hawaii for football since the travel costs for other sports are so high. Meanwhile, Hawaii has lower travel costs by going to the Big West. It's a win-win on that front.

(12-10-2010 11:51 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  It's a mutually agreeable arrangement. The MWC really only wants Hawaii for football since the travel costs for other sports are so high. Meanwhile, Hawaii has lower travel costs by going to the Big West. It's a win-win on that front.

And the Big West gets a nationally recognizable school and a former rival in all their other sports. This is probably the best scenario for all three parties involved.

(12-11-2010 12:20 AM)uakronkid Wrote:  

(12-10-2010 11:51 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  It's a mutually agreeable arrangement. The MWC really only wants Hawaii for football since the travel costs for other sports are so high. Meanwhile, Hawaii has lower travel costs by going to the Big West. It's a win-win on that front.

And the Big West gets a nationally recognizable school and a former rival in all their other sports. This is probably the best scenario for all three parties involved.

Makes sense now... thanks...long term it goes against conference sensibilities but works logistically for Hawaii. I do think that MWC for the extreme west is viable as a second large conference for west. So it makes sense to have the schools develop rivalries. but we are in a different day..

(12-10-2010 06:38 PM)pablowow Wrote:  Why not full membership? Is it Hawaii that wants the Different conferences or is MWC only offering Football.? Im confused with the logic. Please help? Thanks

MWC did not want to deal with travel costs for the olympic sports..and football is where the $$ is generated.

(12-10-2010 06:47 PM)cretv Wrote:  I would assume the Big West makes more sense for their non-football sports than the MWC.

It is a win win for haw. cheaper travel for all sports, and a better fb conf.

This is probably more about Hawaii then the MWC. Hawaii was going to go independent anyway and the MWC came along and offered them football-only or it was negotiated that way and Hawaii decided to jump on a quality home for their football program. Also the MWC is desperate. They just lost TCU and had to replace them with a quality football program and that would be a Top 25 Hawaii team that played in a BCS bowl game a few years ago. The MWC is in serious trouble. I keep hearing people say that they're stronger and setting themselves up for an automatic BCS bid. They have no major TV markets, football and basketball took a major hit perception wise, and their TV contract is going to be horrible. They're forced to renegotiate the Mtn deal and that was already bleeding money. Their new TV deal isn't going to be great, people are talking about them getting on ESPN or CBS or whatever, if that happens it's going to be secondary broadcasts and secondary money. You have presidents desperately trying to prove everything is ok by taking shots at Utah and BYU on the way out the door. That conference has major, major issues.

(12-11-2010 06:14 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  This is probably more about Hawaii then the MWC. Hawaii was going to go independent anyway and the MWC came along and offered them football-only or it was negotiated that way and Hawaii decided to jump on a quality home for their football program. Also the MWC is desperate. They just lost TCU and had to replace them with a quality football program and that would be a Top 25 Hawaii team that played in a BCS bowl game a few years ago. The MWC is in serious trouble. I keep hearing people say that they're stronger and setting themselves up for an automatic BCS bid. They have no major TV markets, football and basketball took a major hit perception wise, and their TV contract is going to be horrible. They're forced to renegotiate the Mtn deal and that was already bleeding money. Their new TV deal isn't going to be great, people are talking about them getting on ESPN or CBS or whatever, if that happens it's going to be secondary broadcasts and secondary money. You have presidents desperately trying to prove everything is ok by taking shots at Utah and BYU on the way out the door. That conference has major, major issues.

Hawaii knows that basketball is, for all intents and purposes, out of it's reach to be a power program. Rather, Hawaii is focused on four other sports where it can be a national power and draw significant attendance:

Women's volleyball
Men's volleyball
Softball
Baseball

The Big West is a power conference in all those sports.

(12-11-2010 06:25 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Hawaii knows that basketball is, for all intents and purposes, out of it's reach to be a power program. Rather, Hawaii is focused on four other sports where it can be a national power and draw significant attendance:

Women's volleyball
Men's volleyball
Softball
Baseball

The Big West is a power conference in all those sports.

I think you meant the Pac-10

(12-11-2010 06:14 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  This is probably more about Hawaii then the MWC. Hawaii was going to go independent anyway and the MWC came along and offered them football-only or it was negotiated that way and Hawaii decided to jump on a quality home for their football program. Also the MWC is desperate. They just lost TCU and had to replace them with a quality football program and that would be a Top 25 Hawaii team that played in a BCS bowl game a few years ago. The MWC is in serious trouble. I keep hearing people say that they're stronger and setting themselves up for an automatic BCS bid. They have no major TV markets, football and basketball took a major hit perception wise, and their TV contract is going to be horrible. They're forced to renegotiate the Mtn deal and that was already bleeding money. Their new TV deal isn't going to be great, people are talking about them getting on ESPN or CBS or whatever, if that happens it's going to be secondary broadcasts and secondary money. You have presidents desperately trying to prove everything is ok by taking shots at Utah and BYU on the way out the door. That conference has major, major issues.

No, the east side of the conference has issues. The west side drove the Hawaii deals due to long standing rivalries. Yes we lost a BCS team in Utah but we added Hawaii and Boise. Also most of the teams in the west are above 60 RPI. Only UNLV is a laggard.

The West side is what it should have been years ago. Fresno, Reno, SDSU, Boise, UNLV, and Hawaii are all geographically close with major markets in California (San Diego, Fresno (and parts of Sacramento), Las Vegas and Honolulu. Boise is also growing fair rapidly as is Reno. None of these schools are likely to be targeted by the Pac-10 and have a good history with each other. With SDSU, UNLV, Reno they also have strong basketball. Fresno has strong facilities but the coach is questionable. It will be interesting who we target for Olympic sports in Hawaii's spot. Gonzaga would be nice and some are talking of taking BYU back but most think that ship has sailed.

The east side will likely depend on what is done by you all. If you take ECU, UCF and SMU for example we would likely target Houston and UTEP. Other options would be UTSA. If you take Missouri, Kansas and K-State things could get very interesting. If Texas wants to go independent they could take Hawaii's spot..... A&M and Oklahoma go to the SEC and we possibly get Baylor and Texas Tech... You get first bite and we are likely waiting to take the second one.

(12-11-2010 07:00 PM)superdeluxe Wrote:  

(12-11-2010 06:25 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Hawaii knows that basketball is, for all intents and purposes, out of it's reach to be a power program. Rather, Hawaii is focused on four other sports where it can be a national power and draw significant attendance:

Women's volleyball
Men's volleyball
Softball
Baseball

The Big West is a power conference in all those sports.

I think you meant the Pac-10

Actually the Pac-10 will have an issue with men's volleyball. Adding Hawaii gives the Big West 6 teams all of which are in the Mountain Pacific Sports Federation where the 4 Pac-10 teams play. The Big West is also very strong in the other three sports.

(12-12-2010 03:33 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(12-11-2010 07:00 PM)superdeluxe Wrote:  

(12-11-2010 06:25 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Hawaii knows that basketball is, for all intents and purposes, out of it's reach to be a power program. Rather, Hawaii is focused on four other sports where it can be a national power and draw significant attendance:

Women's volleyball
Men's volleyball
Softball
Baseball

The Big West is a power conference in all those sports.

I think you meant the Pac-10

Actually the Pac-10 will have an issue with men's volleyball. Adding Hawaii gives the Big West 6 teams all of which are in the Mountain Pacific Sports Federation where the 4 Pac-10 teams play. The Big West is also very strong in the other three sports.

+1, especially in baseball where Big West is one of the best leagues in the country. Many who follow college baseball closely consider ACC, SEC, Big 12, Pac 10, Big West, and C-USA to be the power leagues of college baseball with the Big West and C-USA having slightly less depth in a typical year when compared with the top 4.

(12-12-2010 03:30 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(12-11-2010 06:14 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  This is probably more about Hawaii then the MWC. Hawaii was going to go independent anyway and the MWC came along and offered them football-only or it was negotiated that way and Hawaii decided to jump on a quality home for their football program. Also the MWC is desperate. They just lost TCU and had to replace them with a quality football program and that would be a Top 25 Hawaii team that played in a BCS bowl game a few years ago. The MWC is in serious trouble. I keep hearing people say that they're stronger and setting themselves up for an automatic BCS bid. They have no major TV markets, football and basketball took a major hit perception wise, and their TV contract is going to be horrible. They're forced to renegotiate the Mtn deal and that was already bleeding money. Their new TV deal isn't going to be great, people are talking about them getting on ESPN or CBS or whatever, if that happens it's going to be secondary broadcasts and secondary money. You have presidents desperately trying to prove everything is ok by taking shots at Utah and BYU on the way out the door. That conference has major, major issues.

No, the east side of the conference has issues. The west side drove the Hawaii deals due to long standing rivalries. Yes we lost a BCS team in Utah but we added Hawaii and Boise. Also most of the teams in the west are above 60 RPI. Only UNLV is a laggard.

The West side is what it should have been years ago. Fresno, Reno, SDSU, Boise, UNLV, and Hawaii are all geographically close with major markets in California (San Diego, Fresno (and parts of Sacramento), Las Vegas and Honolulu. Boise is also growing fair rapidly as is Reno. None of these schools are likely to be targeted by the Pac-10 and have a good history with each other. With SDSU, UNLV, Reno they also have strong basketball. Fresno has strong facilities but the coach is questionable. It will be interesting who we target for Olympic sports in Hawaii's spot. Gonzaga would be nice and some are talking of taking BYU back but most think that ship has sailed.

The east side will likely depend on what is done by you all. If you take ECU, UCF and SMU for example we would likely target Houston and UTEP. Other options would be UTSA. If you take Missouri, Kansas and K-State things could get very interesting. If Texas wants to go independent they could take Hawaii's spot..... A&M and Oklahoma go to the SEC and we possibly get Baylor and Texas Tech... You get first bite and we are likely waiting to take the second one.

I meant financially. The MWC as a whole is a pretty solid conference but they are going to have a hard time getting TV deals in this climate, especially with so many BCS conference's TV deals up. If the Big 12 implodes that's a completely different matter. But, for now, the MWC is in trouble financially. That's why BYU left, even moreso then Utah leaving.

[/quote]

I meant financially. The MWC as a whole is a pretty solid conference but they are going to have a hard time getting TV deals in this climate, especially with so many BCS conference's TV deals up. If the Big 12 implodes that's a completely different matter. But, for now, the MWC is in trouble financially. That's why BYU left, even moreso then Utah leaving.
[/quote]

Well BYU left because they wanted to have the rights to games Versus didn't use to televise on BYU TV. Concast would not provide those rights and BYU was in a snit about Utah being invited to the Pac-10 and they were left out. It was more about the value of pulling people into BYU TV and the communication value of that then the money.

Marketwise Utah isn't much bigger than the San Joaquin Valley. However, Utah is a flagship University and BYU has a national presence from the Church so it does hurt but it isn't quite the disaster you portray.

(12-11-2010 06:14 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  This is probably more about Hawaii then the MWC. Hawaii was going to go independent anyway and the MWC came along and offered them football-only

Yup. Hawaii probably reached out to the Big West after Fresno and Nevada bailed out of the WAC. If the MWC football-only arrangement didn't happen, Hawaii would have played football as an indy. But Hawaii would have a harder time as an indy. The rule that allows teams to play an extra football game when they play at Hawaii used to lure teams to schedule Hawaii, but in conferences with a title game -- and pretty soon that's going to be almost everyone other than the Big East and Big 12 Lite -- playing 13 means no bye week during the season, and coaches don't want that.

(12-11-2010 06:25 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(12-11-2010 06:14 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  This is probably more about Hawaii then the MWC. Hawaii was going to go independent anyway and the MWC came along and offered them football-only or it was negotiated that way and Hawaii decided to jump on a quality home for their football program. Also the MWC is desperate. They just lost TCU and had to replace them with a quality football program and that would be a Top 25 Hawaii team that played in a BCS bowl game a few years ago. The MWC is in serious trouble. I keep hearing people say that they're stronger and setting themselves up for an automatic BCS bid. They have no major TV markets, football and basketball took a major hit perception wise, and their TV contract is going to be horrible. They're forced to renegotiate the Mtn deal and that was already bleeding money. Their new TV deal isn't going to be great, people are talking about them getting on ESPN or CBS or whatever, if that happens it's going to be secondary broadcasts and secondary money. You have presidents desperately trying to prove everything is ok by taking shots at Utah and BYU on the way out the door. That conference has major, major issues.

Hawaii knows that basketball is, for all intents and purposes, out of it's reach to be a power program. Rather, Hawaii is focused on four other sports where it can be a national power and draw significant attendance:

Women's volleyball
Men's volleyball
Softball
Baseball

The Big West is a power conference in all those sports.

Thanks for posting this and it is very true. There was one article that indicated that MWC did want Hawaii's olympic sports and I think the reason is to go to 12 teams...and a western division wouldn't be the travel headache in a 12 team/two division league. But, with the loss of UU, BYU, and TCU, MWC doesn't have the punch it once had (loss of any hope of AQ status) and, if this article is correct, Hawaii was sort of telling MWC the way it is--you can have our very good football team and our $2.2 million tv market with our tv contract....but we are going to put our olympic sports in Big West.

Hawaii was going to go Indy and had already worked out the deal with the Big West. It was just a matter of whether the MWC was going to expand, it did, so they grabbed a pretty good product.

The MWC competitively, is a very good conference, VERY underrated.

We already know what Boise is doing...Fresno is an established program in California (great recruiting area), Hawaii is a flagship and Nevada is an up and coming all sports program.

The MWC is poised to do well, it has the flagships in Nevada, New Mexico, Wyoming, Hawaii, plus great recruiting areas in Fresno and San Diego State, plus Boise....along with some formerly good programs in UNLV and Colorado State...and an underrated Air Force. There is a lot of commitment there to be good in any number of sports.

The big question is whether they would want to get into Texas...I could see them grabbing SMU and Houston for market appeal alone and then sit at 12 with a champ game.