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Providence Feeling The Heat?
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JunkYardCard Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Providence Feeling The Heat?
What if Napoleon had a B-52 at Waterloo?
12-05-2010 04:35 PM
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omniorange Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Providence Feeling The Heat?
(12-05-2010 04:35 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  What if Napoleon had a B-52 at Waterloo?

And this analogy relates to the discussion precisely, how?

Again, the options facing the Big East are as follows:

10/17
10/18
12/16
12/18
12/20
a total split

That's basically it. We weren't discussing something that is totally out of the question. And if you didn't like the topic, why bother to post?

It's not as though you've added anything substantive to the discussion as it is.

Cheers,
Neil
12-05-2010 04:57 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Providence Feeling The Heat?
(12-05-2010 02:26 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  As for the Friars, as much as I hate the incestuous nature of Big East leadership always coming from that institution, I think posters underestimate them in terms of how much they actually contribute in some of their other sports; their importance in having another team from the New England region;

I don't really underestimate their value, but when compared to the other 6 teams, they would be number 7 in terms of value over the long haul.

(12-05-2010 03:26 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  As for your comment about ND preferring DePaul over Marquette for exposure in Chicago, ND gets exposure in Chicago simply by being ND. They don't need to play any team for that.

Actually, they just may. It was Frank who mentioned that Notre Dame's coverage (non football) and the big East in general in Chicago was non-existent until DePaul joined. now all three Marquette) are covered daily.
12-05-2010 04:59 PM
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omniorange Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Providence Feeling The Heat?
(12-05-2010 04:59 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(12-05-2010 02:26 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  As for the Friars, as much as I hate the incestuous nature of Big East leadership always coming from that institution, I think posters underestimate them in terms of how much they actually contribute in some of their other sports; their importance in having another team from the New England region;

I don't really underestimate their value, but when compared to the other 6 teams, they would be number 7 in terms of value over the long haul.

Only because you are still operating under the belief that somehow DePaul will get back to its 1980s standards. I'm not, for reasons I have already clearly delineated. I might take your stance more seriously if you were able to clearly delineate why you think they might. But you haven't chosen to do so.

(12-05-2010 04:59 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(12-05-2010 03:26 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  As for your comment about ND preferring DePaul over Marquette for exposure in Chicago, ND gets exposure in Chicago simply by being ND. They don't need to play any team for that.

Actually, they just may. It was Frank who mentioned that Notre Dame's coverage (non football) and the big East in general in Chicago was non-existent until DePaul joined. now all three Marquette) are covered daily.

I've been following this league a lot more than the majority of posters on this board. And my listing of TV stations covering Big East basketball in the early 2000s includes WCIU-TV as well as WMWB-TV out of South Bend. I believe both stations were owned by Weigel Broadcasting in Chicago at that time. Perhaps Frank was referring to Big East football not getting exposure in Chicago prior to DePaul entering the league?

Cheers,
Neil
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2010 05:40 PM by omniorange.)
12-05-2010 05:36 PM
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gosports1 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Providence Feeling The Heat?
For a tiny school,(or any school actually) PC has produced a fair number of people in influential positions. All 3 BE commish's have come from PC as has the first hockey east commish. PC was instrumental in the formation of both leagues. Several high profile coaches also have ties to PC,(some may disagree but i think thats a good thing) including pitino and billy donovan who is one of 3 men to have played and coached in the final 4. Do these stats mean anything, i would say yes others im sure would say no. Doris Burke, who has accomplished many "firsts" for female sports commentators is also a PC grad. (not that she has power to keep PC around, but it is interesting)
They were also in favor of extending Penn St an invitation back in the day. One of three schools that ive seen mentioned as confirmed yes votes(cuse and bc being the others)
This suggests to me that there is climate or environment at PC that is somewhat in tune with what needs to be done to grow and move the conference into the future.
Also if you checkout their website you'll see they have made several improvements to their facilities with more on the way
12-05-2010 06:02 PM
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Post: #66
RE: Providence Feeling The Heat?
(12-05-2010 04:57 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  
(12-05-2010 04:35 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  What if Napoleon had a B-52 at Waterloo?

And this analogy relates to the discussion precisely, how?

Again, the options facing the Big East are as follows:

10/17
10/18
12/16
12/18
12/20
a total split

That's basically it. We weren't discussing something that is totally out of the question. And if you didn't like the topic, why bother to post?

It's not as though you've added anything substantive to the discussion as it is.

Cheers,
Neil

I never said I didn't like the topic. In fact I find the expansion chess match fascinating. You have no sense of humor man. It was just a joke. You're pretty much a Buckaneer clone. Sorry to bother you. I will no longer respond to any of your posts. Hopefully you will do the same. Feel free to subject others to your superior intellect. I have had enough.
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2010 06:33 PM by JunkYardCard.)
12-05-2010 06:32 PM
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SO#1 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Providence Feeling The Heat?
Bill,

UConn would be scary if they have a consistence reliable passing game. They don’t have one ever since DanO gone.

"heavy handed, power-hungry talk" and "the football schools should act on their Mr. Big-Time tough guy talk"
terms that are used by your opponent when they want to portrait you in a negative light. This would give him the right or license to exercise his indignation and does his rants.

He (like most non-football fan) thinks the Big East or the Catholic version would be fine without football schools but also understood their basketball TV contract wouldn’t be nearly as high, but hey would still be wanted or as attractive to ESPN. So in anger, he challenges football schools to go ahead and split. The Catholic version will do okay. Whatever group that stay behind will get to keep the “Big East” name right that why the expansion to 8-8 non-football and football because there are enough members from any one of the group to keep the Big East conference alive. A name brand took long time to develop.

I don’t think Calhoun’s comment were made as threatens, unfortunately his reputation of being a bully by local media, but McNamara may view it that way, what I think the Calhoun’s comment, the size of division I basketball schools (350 schools or close to that) are bloated with a very difference philosophy mission would lead to 125-130 top division I basketball school break away and associate among themselves. You have to remember that they are responsible for the billion dollars TV contract with CBS but share equally with 350 or so other schools. You look at the BCS model where the 80% or 90% of the money keep by those that responsible for their worth. It is parallel to the bloated size of the Big East’s basketball, now at 16 but soon to be 17 or 18. Jacobs is our local version that looks out for the best interest of the whole university. Unfortunately McNamara roots for a university that doesn’t sponsor football. As for the meaning of Calhoun’s comment maybe coaches’ talk among themselves or rumor from those that know.
12-05-2010 06:40 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Providence Feeling The Heat?
(12-05-2010 06:32 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  It was just a joke. You're pretty much a Buckaineer clone. Sorry to bother you.

Whoa now. That is an uncalled for shot. Omni actually knows how to interpret data, and is not known to bash those who disagree with him just because they disagree.
12-05-2010 07:55 PM
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Bill Marsh Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Providence Feeling The Heat?
(12-05-2010 06:40 PM)SO#1 Wrote:  Bill,

UConn would be scary if they have a consistence reliable passing game. They don’t have one ever since DanO gone.

"heavy handed, power-hungry talk" and "the football schools should act on their Mr. Big-Time tough guy talk"
terms that are used by your opponent when they want to portrait you in a negative light. This would give him the right or license to exercise his indignation and does his rants.

He (like most non-football fan) thinks the Big East or the Catholic version would be fine without football schools but also understood their basketball TV contract wouldn’t be nearly as high, but hey would still be wanted or as attractive to ESPN. So in anger, he challenges football schools to go ahead and split. The Catholic version will do okay. Whatever group that stay behind will get to keep the “Big East” name right that why the expansion to 8-8 non-football and football because there are enough members from any one of the group to keep the Big East conference alive. A name brand took long time to develop.

I don’t think Calhoun’s comment were made as threatens, unfortunately his reputation of being a bully by local media, but McNamara may view it that way, what I think the Calhoun’s comment, the size of division I basketball schools (350 schools or close to that) are bloated with a very difference philosophy mission would lead to 125-130 top division I basketball school break away and associate among themselves. You have to remember that they are responsible for the billion dollars TV contract with CBS but share equally with 350 or so other schools. You look at the BCS model where the 80% or 90% of the money keep by those that responsible for their worth. It is parallel to the bloated size of the Big East’s basketball, now at 16 but soon to be 17 or 18. Jacobs is our local version that looks out for the best interest of the whole university. Unfortunately McNamara roots for a university that doesn’t sponsor football. As for the meaning of Calhoun’s comment maybe coaches’ talk among themselves or rumor from those that know.

SO#1, always enjoy your posts. Thank you for continuing the conversation.

Totally agree about the passing game. They couldn't move the ball in the 2nd half. Looked tired. But they got just enough of a passing game in the last minute & a half when they most needed it to pull this thing out.

No one has to put Calhoun in a negative light. He does a good job of that all by himself.

I really didn't read the article as one expressing McNamara's indignation. Frankly I'm frustrated with eastern football/all sports schools. I imagine that McNamara feels the same way although I may be wrong about him since I don't really know his work. They haven't been able to get together on an all sports conference in 30 years & they always have someone else to blame. I'm tired of the tough guy talk too & would like to see us as a bunch finally get something done. As a UConn fan I think I can see this from both sides because for a long time we were on the outside looking in. Now we are on the inside & it doesn't look a whole lot better.

I have no idea who McNamara roots for. If he's anything like Jacobs, then he's just as willing to take shots at the local school as he is willing to take their side. I think all of these guys try to write in a way that will keep local fans interested. One of my favorite Courant sports writers was the late Alan Greenberg. Unfortunately he didn't last long as the Courant's feature sports writer because he was too critical. (I would rather say too intelligent.) I think almost all of thes eguys come to understand that if you want to keep your job, you better at least give the appearance that you care about the local school & are with them most of the time. You can criticize them as Jacobs does from time to time, but you'd better know where the line is.

While the tournament is bloated with too many schools & conferences, it's been a successful formula. The very David vs Goliath nature of it is what makes it so appealing. With all the tough talk, I can't really see them messing with it & I don't know that they'd make more money by cutting the number of postential teams down to 1/3 of the current number. The very fact that the Ivy League champ gets in is the excuse that the big conferences use to get 6 or 8 of their own conference members into the tourney. Take away the Ivy champ & the other mid majors & what would be the reason to include so many teams from the top conferences? You've already proven who are the top teams in each of the conferences be a regular season schedule & a conference tournament, so why do you need to do that all over again?

Not only do lesser football schools like Memphis & non-football schools like Villanova, Georgetown, & Marquette make it to the Final Four from hybrid conferences as those 4 have done in recent years, but mid majors like Butler & George Mason get there as well. We also have examples of schools like Xavier, Davidson, Southern Illinois, Kent State, UAB, Nevada, UW-Milwaukee, Wichita State, UNLV, Seton Hall, & Gonzaga all making it to the Elite 8 just since 2000.

That's the magic of this tournament. That's what Calhoun has forgotten from his days at Northeastern & his early years at UConn. That's why I can't see the tournament format changing any time soon. If they change it, the majors will be shooting themselves in the foot. They need the mid majors to keep everyone involved. That's the charm of this thing.
12-05-2010 09:09 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Providence Feeling The Heat?
(12-05-2010 04:35 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  What if Napoleon had a B-52 at Waterloo?
It would have run out of fuel, because somebody forgot to check the guage, and crashed...
12-05-2010 10:10 PM
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SO#1 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Providence Feeling The Heat?
(12-05-2010 09:09 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  That's the magic of this tournament. That's what Calhoun has forgotten from his days at Northeastern & his early years at UConn. That's why I can't see the tournament format changing any time soon. If they change it, the majors will be shooting themselves in the foot. They need the mid majors to keep everyone involved. That's the charm of this thing.

I don’t know if it rumor or just conversation among coaches but Calhoun spoke out loud on the subject. So don’t attribute to him alone. Was this quote took place at the Big East basketball media meeting? You have to wonder if 16 teams get to be too much and the coaches to think up a scenario to reduce the size of the league. I don’t know what lead to that comment. I don’t think he forget his root or anything like that. He respected the little guys too.

Do you understand BCS model? Where 80 to 90 percentage of the revenue is distributed to their members with a small percentage to administration cost. The NCAA doesn’t do that. Their administration cost upward of double digits leaving much smaller percentage to the members.

I don’t think CBS bough NCAA tournament right to showcase mid-major programs if that the case you won’t mind having two separate tournaments. You can have 130 schools with difference mission statements that stress big-time sports like FBS football into division I-A and the remaining 220 schools into division I-B. They can have their own tournament. Let CBS and ESPN decide how much they are willing to pay for those programs. 68 teams soon? What happen to students athletes when the tournament lasted about a month long?
12-06-2010 12:43 AM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Providence Feeling The Heat?
(12-05-2010 04:35 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  What if Napoleon had a B-52 at Waterloo?

Well, what if, Lord Wellington had Stinger missles and MIM-72 Chaparral missile systems! 03-phew
12-06-2010 07:53 AM
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billyjack Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Providence Feeling The Heat?
...Jeesh, this thread survived the weekend?...

...FYI, Kevin McNamara went to Syracuse, I think in the early 80's. He's been with the paper for 20+ years, and is pretty knowledgable and generally unbiased.

Also, for the last 25+ years (thru a Final Four, Big East tourney win, Elite-8, decent success and with at one time 10-12 or so Friars on NBA rosters around 10 years ago), the projo has been predicting the end of PC hoops. They especially love when the Friars are on the bubble and don't make the Big Dance. So another article warning about the collapse of the Big East as we know it, etc, can only be met with a shrug from local fans.
12-06-2010 11:19 AM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Providence Feeling The Heat?
If the basketball was all that matters, I would say that by adding TCU, the Big East should stay the way it is. However, football needs three more teams and Villanova adds no value to the football equation. Also, I believe all BCS conferences will soon be required to have 12 football teams and a play off game. So do you favor the 12/20 or the split? I believe those are the two options.

Wilkie 04-cheers
12-06-2010 11:34 AM
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juveeer Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Providence Feeling The Heat?
(12-03-2010 08:27 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  
(12-03-2010 05:09 PM)juveeer Wrote:  
(11-30-2010 10:49 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  
(11-30-2010 10:43 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Kevin McNamara of the Providence Journal arguing for a split:

"If that happens, maybe it’s time for the basketball schools to take their ball and walk away. A package led by a rejuvenated St. John’s, Villanova and Georgetown, and augmented by Xavier and Dayton, may not deliver the (roughly) $2.5 million it does now to a school such as Providence, but it will be one that ESPN would love to have."

Wishful thinking--Villanova and Georgetown want no part of the "NIT League", and the smallest school in the league knows it. If the league adds more schools, it will come at the expense of two of these four schools: PC, Seton Hall, St. John's and DePaul.

Which two ought to be feeling the heat?

How will it come at the expense of any other schools? That statement makes absolutely no sense.

Steve Lavin has St. John's on the verge of a resurgence. The prelimiary ratings on their recruiting for next season is #2 in the country. With the NYC market, St. John's is the last team that anyone is going to want to leave behind.

Noone is going to leave the Johnnies behind, but a resurgence? Really?

IDK how good their recruiting is, they still have Lavin as the COACH.
Recruiting wasn't his problem on the West Coast in a relatively weak league. Poor coaching was.

Unless he has learned an awful lot while "analyzing games" on the tube, the only "resurgence they Johnnies get is a bump up the ladder in the BEAST which is a far tougher league than anything Lavin has seen to date.

But I agree the 2 on the bubble are Provi-dunce and the Hall. If the league wasn't run as a subsidiary of PC they would already be gone. The Hall should never have been in the league to begin with.

With Lavin as the coach, UCLA still had 6 straight 20+ win seasons, an Elite 8 Finish, & 5 out of 6 Sweet 16 finishes. St. John's would take that in a heartbeat.

You're also ignoring the people that Lavin has surrounded himself with - great recruiters & great tacticians. He only has to be smart enough to know his limits & to find ways to compensate for them. That's what any smart executive does.

I posted his coaching staff on another thread. All you have to do is look at Dunlap & Keady on his coaching staff to know that this team will be very well prepared & that Lavin will be hearing very good advice on in game decisions.

In game coaching is vastly overrated. Jim Calhoun is one of the worst offensive coaches I have ever seen. Yet, he has won 2 national championships. Lefty Driesell got the same knocks as Lavin for his in game coaching, but all his teams did was win anywhere he went & at every level.

If you're not aware of the resurgence that's going on at St. John's, then you're not paying attention. Laving will turn them into a winner within 2 years & a contender for the conference title within 3.

Look. They will be better. The recruiting will make it so.

BUT, winning BEAST titles? Deep runs in the NCAA?

i will believe it when I see it. Lavin can have all the help he wants on the bench, but he is going up against some excellent coaches in that league. 3 of the top 4 winningest active coaches are in the BEAST, plus Jamie at Pitt, Mr. GQ at Nova, JT3 at G-town, Buzz at Marquette.

Lavin has never faced that kind of competition both on the court and on the sidelines in his life.

Again, I hope SJU kicks it up. We need them in NYC to rock the Gah-den again, but I will believe it when I se it with Lavin.
12-06-2010 12:45 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Providence Feeling The Heat?
(12-06-2010 12:45 PM)juveeer Wrote:  
(12-03-2010 08:27 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  
(12-03-2010 05:09 PM)juveeer Wrote:  
(11-30-2010 10:49 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  
(11-30-2010 10:43 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Kevin McNamara of the Providence Journal arguing for a split:

"If that happens, maybe it’s time for the basketball schools to take their ball and walk away. A package led by a rejuvenated St. John’s, Villanova and Georgetown, and augmented by Xavier and Dayton, may not deliver the (roughly) $2.5 million it does now to a school such as Providence, but it will be one that ESPN would love to have."

Wishful thinking--Villanova and Georgetown want no part of the "NIT League", and the smallest school in the league knows it. If the league adds more schools, it will come at the expense of two of these four schools: PC, Seton Hall, St. John's and DePaul.

Which two ought to be feeling the heat?

How will it come at the expense of any other schools? That statement makes absolutely no sense.

Steve Lavin has St. John's on the verge of a resurgence. The prelimiary ratings on their recruiting for next season is #2 in the country. With the NYC market, St. John's is the last team that anyone is going to want to leave behind.

Noone is going to leave the Johnnies behind, but a resurgence? Really?

IDK how good their recruiting is, they still have Lavin as the COACH.
Recruiting wasn't his problem on the West Coast in a relatively weak league. Poor coaching was.

Unless he has learned an awful lot while "analyzing games" on the tube, the only "resurgence they Johnnies get is a bump up the ladder in the BEAST which is a far tougher league than anything Lavin has seen to date.

But I agree the 2 on the bubble are Provi-dunce and the Hall. If the league wasn't run as a subsidiary of PC they would already be gone. The Hall should never have been in the league to begin with.

With Lavin as the coach, UCLA still had 6 straight 20+ win seasons, an Elite 8 Finish, & 5 out of 6 Sweet 16 finishes. St. John's would take that in a heartbeat.

You're also ignoring the people that Lavin has surrounded himself with - great recruiters & great tacticians. He only has to be smart enough to know his limits & to find ways to compensate for them. That's what any smart executive does.

I posted his coaching staff on another thread. All you have to do is look at Dunlap & Keady on his coaching staff to know that this team will be very well prepared & that Lavin will be hearing very good advice on in game decisions.

In game coaching is vastly overrated. Jim Calhoun is one of the worst offensive coaches I have ever seen. Yet, he has won 2 national championships. Lefty Driesell got the same knocks as Lavin for his in game coaching, but all his teams did was win anywhere he went & at every level.

If you're not aware of the resurgence that's going on at St. John's, then you're not paying attention. Laving will turn them into a winner within 2 years & a contender for the conference title within 3.

Look. They will be better. The recruiting will make it so.

BUT, winning BEAST titles? Deep runs in the NCAA?

i will believe it when I see it. Lavin can have all the help he wants on the bench, but he is going up against some excellent coaches in that league. 3 of the top 4 winningest active coaches are in the BEAST, plus Jamie at Pitt, Mr. GQ at Nova, JT3 at G-town, Buzz at Marquette.

Lavin has never faced that kind of competition both on the court and on the sidelines in his life.

Again, I hope SJU kicks it up. We need them in NYC to rock the Gah-den again, but I will believe it when I se it with Lavin.

I'm skeptical just because St. Johns was in such a deep hole to begin with. Not skeptical about Lavin, though, with his five Sweet 16 appearances and the players he recruited to UCLA, and Dunlap is one of the best assistant coaches in basketball.
12-06-2010 01:01 PM
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gosports1 Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Providence Feeling The Heat?
(12-05-2010 10:10 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(12-05-2010 04:35 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  What if Napoleon had a B-52 at Waterloo?
It would have run out of fuel, because somebody forgot to check the guage, and crashed...

plus who the hell would fly it? there werent any trained pilots back then
12-06-2010 04:36 PM
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Post: #78
RE: Providence Feeling The Heat?
(12-06-2010 04:36 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  
(12-05-2010 10:10 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(12-05-2010 04:35 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  What if Napoleon had a B-52 at Waterloo?
It would have run out of fuel, because somebody forgot to check the guage, and crashed...
plus who the hell would fly it? there werent any trained pilots back then
The fellow Napoleon makes an offer he can't refuse. Learn or die...
12-06-2010 07:27 PM
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