Lets look at the point average that we've given up in conference games and also the average yards rushing and yard passing given up in conference games. Those are are peer games not Ohio State, Vandy and Virginia.

And Wooden if you think the problem is at LB and DB then you should worry about next year. The top two tacklers are senior LBs and there is quite a lot at DB graduating as well.

(11-02-2010 04:09 PM)emu79 Wrote:  And Wooden if you think the problem is at LB and DB then you should worry about next year. The top two tacklers are senior LBs and there is quite a lot at DB graduating as well.

No disrespect to those seniors but it's not like EMU going to be losing a bunch of NFL prospects. Those guys can be replaced. Aren't two of those LB's former walk-ons (Fort and Howey)?

Yes Wooden those LBs are the former walkons that the LBs English has recruited have not beaten out. Anybody notice but Moffett on most gameday releases isn't even listed as second on the depth charts.

Has Hester and Curry two of the 2010 recruiting LB class played this year or are they are they redshirted?

I don't have the roster in front of me, but losing Downard, Hicks, Pratt and L Thomas assuming he doesn't get another year of eligibility are both starting and depth concerns. For my concerns about the secondary that has been playing this year see my seperate thread on whether the defense has really improved.

I would agree Pollard will help the secondary next year and we have Cardwell Rose and Bellify (sp).

(11-03-2010 09:42 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Yes Wooden those LBs are the former walkons that the LBs English has recruited have not beaten out. Anybody notice but Moffett on most gameday releases isn't even listed as second on the depth charts.

Has Hester and Curry two of the 2010 recruiting LB class played this year or are they are they redshirted?

I don't have the roster in front of me, but losing Downard, Hicks, Pratt and L Thomas assuming he doesn't get another year of eligibility are both starting and depth concerns. For my concerns about the secondary that has been playing this year see my seperate thread on whether the defense has really improved.

I would agree Pollard will help the secondary next year and we have Cardwell Rose and Bellify (sp).

I still have the vision of Hicks getting smoked by the UT WR on a simple route for a TD stuck in my head. Hard for me to believe there will be a drop-off with his replacement next year.

LB should be a recruiting priority. Pehaps a JUCO (if he shows up) would be a good thing.

The problem Wooden is that Hicks has started several years and if English had someone better don't you think they would out there on the field?

That's my whole point regarding English's recruiting. He needs to bring in guys that were better than the former coaching staff.

By the way it would be nice if the defensive line put some pressure on the QBs. Last I recall EMU ranked 97 or 98 in sacks out of maybe 120 Div I teams.

Sounds like a need to start an 'important thread' to discuss the '11 LBs and DBs.

After all it seems more germaine to that topic then "Ron English".

BTW, ranking 97 or 98 in sacks is not bad. We wouldn't be having this theads, ad nausem, if our team was ranked 97th in I-A. I believe Minnesota or a team ranked near them would be the 97th or 98th best I-A team.

(11-01-2010 11:48 AM)emu79 Wrote:  It is a valid point about complete rebuilding. After two years and two recruiting classes many of the starters are still the former coach's players. And that's why I am lukewarm about English's recruiting especially his JUCO players. You bring in JUCOs to make immediate impacts and improvements in the units. Most the JUCOs who actually made the team are on defense. I don't see the defense unit overall improved and the national ranking in our defensive categories show that.
To be fair take out the OSU, Vandy and Virginia games we are still giving up a ton of yards and points to MAC teams. I've mentioned my concerns about the defense the past two years but been poo poohed by posters here who insist its better. I also said the kicking game was open to question prior to the season. The punting has been better than I expected but the kicking has been inconsistent and we let a fairly reliable kicker go before the season started. Gillett has improved some in his passing this year and also reducing the turnovers. But look at our third down conversion percentage. The offense shuts down when it has to come from behind. We will lose some very good seniors on defense this year and a few on the offensive side. I'm okay with letting English show us what he has next season but in my opinon he needs to show he can win in the MAC not beating gimmes like Howard. And close doesn't count. It didn't count for Genyk and it shouldn't count for English. In my opinion he needs to show 3-4 MAC wins to show fans he is on the right track.

I agree with your point about wns over FCS teams like Howard not counting. I also agree with you about the offense's problems, particularly on third downs.

But I disagree about the defense. I think a lot of the defensive struggles this year have had to do with offensive failures.

EMU's defense, playing without two starting linebackers, stopped Toledo's offense on seven drives. When the offense turns the ball over on the 4-yard line (as they did against Toledo), it becomes pretty hard for the defense to stop the other team. When special teams gives up a 50+ yard kickoff/punt return, or worse, allows a return for a touchdown, there's not much the defense can do. And when the offense doesn't take much time off the clock -- they had NINE possessions against Toledo that were four plays or fewer! -- the defense can get pretty tired.

I think that's part of why the defense seemed to get better midway through the Ball State game: because the offense started putting together longer drives allowing the EMU defense to rest. I think if the offense starts converting on some third downs, allowing them to have longer drives, we'll see a big improvement in the defense also.

That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it.

(11-05-2010 10:37 AM)cmadler Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 11:48 AM)emu79 Wrote:  It is a valid point about complete rebuilding. After two years and two recruiting classes many of the starters are still the former coach's players. And that's why I am lukewarm about English's recruiting especially his JUCO players. You bring in JUCOs to make immediate impacts and improvements in the units. Most the JUCOs who actually made the team are on defense. I don't see the defense unit overall improved and the national ranking in our defensive categories show that.
To be fair take out the OSU, Vandy and Virginia games we are still giving up a ton of yards and points to MAC teams. I've mentioned my concerns about the defense the past two years but been poo poohed by posters here who insist its better. I also said the kicking game was open to question prior to the season. The punting has been better than I expected but the kicking has been inconsistent and we let a fairly reliable kicker go before the season started. Gillett has improved some in his passing this year and also reducing the turnovers. But look at our third down conversion percentage. The offense shuts down when it has to come from behind. We will lose some very good seniors on defense this year and a few on the offensive side. I'm okay with letting English show us what he has next season but in my opinon he needs to show he can win in the MAC not beating gimmes like Howard. And close doesn't count. It didn't count for Genyk and it shouldn't count for English. In my opinion he needs to show 3-4 MAC wins to show fans he is on the right track.

I agree with your point about wns over FCS teams like Howard not counting. I also agree with you about the offense's problems, particularly on third downs.

But I disagree about the defense. I think a lot of the defensive struggles this year have had to do with offensive failures.

EMU's defense, playing without two starting linebackers, stopped Toledo's offense on seven drives. When the offense turns the ball over on the 4-yard line (as they did against Toledo), it becomes pretty hard for the defense to stop the other team. When special teams gives up a 50+ yard kickoff/punt return, or worse, allows a return for a touchdown, there's not much the defense can do. And when the offense doesn't take much time off the clock -- they had NINE possessions against Toledo that were four plays or fewer! -- the defense can get pretty tired.

I think that's part of why the defense seemed to get better midway through the Ball State game: because the offense started putting together longer drives allowing the EMU defense to rest. I think if the offense starts converting on some third downs, allowing them to have longer drives, we'll see a big improvement in the defense also.

That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it.

If this was Facebook, I would "like" CMadler's post...

cmadlers point isn't all that accurate one only has to look at the MAC stats to rebuke that. http://www.nmnathletics.com/fls/9400/Sta...nfonly.htm
Offensive stats that help the Team
1. EMU is 4th in the conference in passing offense
2. EMU is 6th in rushing offense
3. EMU is 3rd in TOTAL offense
4. EMU is 6th in 3rd down conversions
5. EMU is is 5th in sacks given up 10 total all year
6. EMU is 4th in TIME of POSSESSION
7. 10 turnovers on the year which is 3rd best in conference

Offensive stats that hurt
1. EMU only avg 20 pts a game
2. EMU is 9th in 1st downs ( BUT EMU has a lot of explosive Long TD's)
3. EMU is 11th in Red Zone Offense

Defense that helps
1. 6th in pass defense
2. 2nd in opponent 4th down conversions

Defense that hurts
1. 12th in scoring Defense
2. only forced 4 fumble recoveries and 2 int on year dead last in Conf
3. 12th in rushing defense
4. 11th in total defense
5. 12th in pass defense efficiency
6. 10th in sacks
7. Last in Red Zone Defense
8. Last in opp 3rd down conversions

Special Teams that help
1. 3rd in Punt avg

Special Teams that hurt
1. 8th Kick Off Return avg
2. Last in Punt Return Avg
3. Last in Field Goals
4. Last in Kick Off Coverage

cmadler how exactly do you quantify your comments

Thanks Midwestern for pulling all that data together.

(11-06-2010 10:23 PM)MidwestRecruiting Wrote:  cmadlers point isn't all that accurate one only has to look at the MAC stats to rebuke that. http://www.nmnathletics.com/fls/9400/Sta...nfonly.htm
Offensive stats that help the Team
1. EMU is 4th in the conference in passing offense
2. EMU is 6th in rushing offense
3. EMU is 3rd in TOTAL offense
4. EMU is 6th in 3rd down conversions
5. EMU is is 5th in sacks given up 10 total all year
6. EMU is 4th in TIME of POSSESSION
7. 10 turnovers on the year which is 3rd best in conference

Offensive stats that hurt
1. EMU only avg 20 pts a game
2. EMU is 9th in 1st downs ( BUT EMU has a lot of explosive Long TD's)
3. EMU is 11th in Red Zone Offense

Defense that helps
1. 6th in pass defense
2. 2nd in opponent 4th down conversions

Defense that hurts
1. 12th in scoring Defense
2. only forced 4 fumble recoveries and 2 int on year dead last in Conf
3. 12th in rushing defense
4. 11th in total defense
5. 12th in pass defense efficiency
6. 10th in sacks
7. Last in Red Zone Defense
8. Last in opp 3rd down conversions

Special Teams that help
1. 3rd in Punt avg

Special Teams that hurt
1. 8th Kick Off Return avg
2. Last in Punt Return Avg
3. Last in Field Goals
4. Last in Kick Off Coverage

cmadler how exactly do you quantify your comments

As I read the offense:

Good big play abilities (e.g., lot of TD passes or scampers around end by Greene or Gillett), but real issues in red zone offense.

I'm not sure what the solution is.

Best guess is that without a true lead blocker that we can't run in the red zone.

Kind of hard to have a real vertical passing game in the red zone. How vertical can a QB go if the ball is on the 5 yard line???

Best I can come up with...