Quote:Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

There was direct quotes from the FBI explaining the situation, that made it clear wasn't a religious-driven crime. It's not a lack of evidence. The FBI spoke directly with the guy who committed the crime. They know the reasons for the bombing attempt. It was not a religious-driven crime.

To your second point, what was my original claim? What changed? It seems because you didn't have the information that I did originally (most likely because of where I live and it potentially hurting me, I actually took the time to research the situation), you assumed I meant something that I never did. The fact you misinterpreted me, doesn't mean I changed my opinion.

In regards to Mo-Town's "challenge", this wasn't done for religious-driven reasons, nor did I ever suggest it was. So I'm not sure why his challenge is relevant to what I said or this bombing attempt?

If you don't approve of my term legitimate media, I apologize, I was using a general term, I just meant well known media sources that would have quotes directly from the FBI, that weren't some random blogger's opinion. "Old" media if you will, or main stream, Chicago Tribune, Chicago Sun Times, Daily Herald, WGN, etc..

I hadn't heard about this story from anywhere else, other than what I read posted up top in the thread (pasted again below). I'll be the first to admit that I immediately assumed the motive stemmed from some 'jihadist'-like beef. If I was wrong, then I was wrong.

But in my own defense... When 99% of similarly-worded news clips turn out to be what I assumed, then it was a very understandable assumption. Nearly every reader regardless of political stripe would've "went there" upon reading this.

Quote:Chicago man arrested in alleged bomb plot

CHICAGO – Federal authorities say they've arrested a 22-year-old man who allegedly placed a backpack on a crowded Chicago street corner over the weekend thinking it contained an explosive.

The FBI's Chicago office says Sami Samir Hassoun is charged with one count each of attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction and attempted use of an explosive device.

Hassoun was arrested after midnight Saturday. He had an initial appearance in a Chicago federal courtroom Monday afternoon.

The statement says the arrest was part of an investigation going back at least several months. It says the supposed explosive device was fake and given to Hassoun by an undercover agent.

A message was left at a home telephone number for Hassoun wasn't returned.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100920/ap_o...omb_arrest

(09-21-2010 11:45 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  

Quote:Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

There was direct quotes from the FBI explaining the situation, that made it clear wasn't a religious-driven crime. It's not a lack of evidence. The FBI spoke directly with the guy who committed the crime. They know the reasons for the bombing attempt. It was not a religious-driven crime.

Muslims claim that their beliefs go beyond "religion". It is a full-fledged world view, including political philosophy and ways of life.

It's an erroneous distinction that some in the US tries to make between religion and other beliefs.

Once again, imposing your beliefs on others.

In this instance it may not matter. But the question is unanswered. (It is after all, Chicago. Some of the stupidest people in the country.)

(09-21-2010 12:44 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(09-21-2010 11:45 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  

Quote:Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

There was direct quotes from the FBI explaining the situation, that made it clear wasn't a religious-driven crime. It's not a lack of evidence. The FBI spoke directly with the guy who committed the crime. They know the reasons for the bombing attempt. It was not a religious-driven crime.

Muslims claim that their beliefs go beyond "religion". It is a full-fledged world view, including political philosophy and ways of life.

It's an erroneous distinction that some in the US tries to make between religion and other beliefs.

Once again, imposing your beliefs on others.

In this instance it may not matter. But the question is unanswered. (It is after all, Chicago. Some of the stupidest people in the country.)

there's a lot of truth in that. Muslims look at these things less as religious issues and more as basic life issues. It's an all-encompassing ideology

So.. again... where did I change my opinion. And what facts did I have wrong?

Still waiting.

(09-21-2010 12:57 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  So.. again... where did I change my opinion. And what facts did I have wrong?

Still waiting.

Hmm, are you a Muzzie, by chance?

Ha, I am not, I had to google Muzzie. Thank you Urban Dictionary, in any case, I attend a Foursquare church (Christian if anyone doesn't know).

(09-21-2010 01:06 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Ha, I am not, I had to google Muzzie. Thank you Urban Dictionary, in any case, I attend a Foursquare church (Christian if anyone doesn't know).

Who (or in the name of which religion) has committed over 95% of the terroristic acts throughout the world in the past 30 years, in your opinion? (Just asking your opinion; I already know the facts).

(09-20-2010 04:09 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Good call, Christians have never committed this kind of crime before.

1) There is a difference between *never* and way far less frequently! To set up a world where one group is not perfect so the sins of another are marginalized is the worst kind of Moral Relativism.

2) For *every* instance of violence in my life time (70's) there has been Christian Leanders strongly condemning the act, the individual, and any specific group of which they were a member. Yet many Muslim leaders will not condemn Hamas or other groups that do this kind of thing all the time.

Rebel did I ever state who commits more crimes? What does that have to do with the questions I asked DrTorch?

And to answer your question, I don't have an opinion on that. That isn't an opinion anyways, it'd be a statistic. I assume there is a study done that you are referring to that says over 95% of terrorist acts have been committed by Muslims. Could definitely be true, I have no reason to believe you're wrong. You seem informed.

Personally, I haven't done enough research to suggest I have any clue what % of attacks they've committed, or how those numbers were collected. I never claimed to have such information though, or that I believe you're wrong, so I don't know how that's relevant to this discussion with DrTorch about a specific bombing attempt that had nothing to do with Muslims.

(09-21-2010 01:43 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Rebel did I ever state who commits more crimes? What does that have to do with the questions I asked DrTorch?

You make the naive claim that radical Muslims are few and far between and that we shouldn't be aiming our frustrations at the entire religion. While the latter part is true, the first part is certainly false. The CIA estimates 10% of the Islamic population as radical with an additional 10-20% sympathetic to the radicals. With a worldwide population of between 1.6 and 1.8 Billion people, that's certainly not "just a few radicals". No army has ever fielded a 540 million man army, or 180 million with 360 in reserve and support roles.

Here's an idea, wanna change how they're perceived? Then get the mofuggas to start protesting worldwide through the streets against radicalism like they do when the "Great Satan" is attacked. Fire Ibrahim Hooper and replace him with someone who DOESN'T want to see Shar'ia law implemented in the States. Stop bitching about westerners on Muslim lands when you're spreading your cult all over western lands. There's a start.

That's nice and all.. still not sure what that has to do with my discussion with DrTorch.

Not to mention, when I did say they are few and far between? I never claimed to have an idea how many Muslims are radical. I said I don't fear them, and I believe those who do are cowards. That and to just assume because a Muslim guy tried to hurt people, it was a religion-driven crime is small minded and foolish.

If 100% of them were radical, I'd still consider those who fear them to be cowards. I'd still consider those who make simple assumptions without taking the time to gather the facts a hindrance to society as a whole.

You're just making a generalized argument against Islam, it has nothing to do with what I've posted. If you think Islam is terrible, fine. That's your thing, have fun with it, I don't really care, but it doesn't change anything I've said.

(09-21-2010 08:28 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Not sure how the IRA doesn't count. I'm sorry you are a coward and you've let a few members of the Muslim fringe scare you.

When The President, The Sec State and Sec Defense tell you that insulting Muslims by burning their books will lead to more attacks/murders of Americans, and the Builder of a building in NYC says he can't move it a few blocks because it might lead to more attacks/murders of Americans... I don't think it's unreasonable to be scared of them.

Quote:It's pathetic how weak some people are.. the terrorists have already won with some of you. When you just assume it must be a Muslim out to get you every time someone does something like this it only shows they have you by the balls.

Tell that to Obama, Biden Clinton Patraeus et al.

The government tells us we have to give up our right to protest because it might cost lives... Who has handed them the victory??

The IRA hasn't been particularly active in quite some time, and are pretty well confined to Northern Ireland. They don't seem to want to eliminate anything, but want independence from England. There are certainly religious connotations to this (Church of England and all), but it isn't about destroying the Church of England and converting people to their religion... so while I see whay you consider it a "violent" religious movement, it isn't particularly arbitrary in its attacks.


FTR, you DID say it was "a few members of the fringe".... however big it is, it scared the Operational chief of US forces in Afghanistan. I think the rest of us are justified in considering it might be a bigger deal than you imply

Living in fear vs. not inciting people intentionally is very different.

(09-21-2010 02:07 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Living in fear vs. not inciting people intentionally is very different.

Obviously we don't need to incite them to be attacked.

Who is living in fear?? The government is so scared it's publicly denying citizens rights who OBVIOUSLY don't live in fear...

Huskiefan talks tough behind a computer screen and behind the protection of the United States military. It's warranted to fear that cult. Not singular members, but what it breeds. Many parts of Europe will be majority Muslim and possibly living under Shar'ia law in the next century because they're being out-bred. ....if they only feared the possible outcome, maybe they could have diverted that danger. But no, they want to take a politically-correct stance and not call a spade a Gdamn spade.

We have been at war with Radical Islam since 1979. Regardless of what the "Gray Area People" say or want to convince you of, There are only two sides to the battle, that is still raging today.

US Navy Captain Ouimette Wrote:AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP!

That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 (When more than 3,000 Americans were killed) and maybe it was, but I think it should have been 'Get Out of Bed!' In fact, the alarm clock has been buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button and roll over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then.

It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran . This seizure was an outright attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's most powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency The attack on this sovereign U. S. Embassy set the stage for events to follow for the next 25 years.

America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Vietnam experience and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President Carter, had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert. The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol of America 's inability to deal with terrorism.

America 's military had been decimated and down sized since the end of the Vietnam War. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start.

Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and killed throughout the Middle East . America could do little to protect her citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil continued.


In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven into the US Embassy compound in Beirut . When it explodes, it kills 63 people. The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once more.

Then just six short months later in 1983 a large truck heavily laden down with over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine Corps headquarters in Beirut and 241 US servicemen are killed. America mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more.

Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait , and America continues her slumber.

The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the gate of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.

Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe . In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid

Then in August 1985 a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rheine-Main, 22 are killed and the snooze alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US interests are continually attacked.

Fifty-nine days later in 1985 a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the passenger list and executed.

The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners when they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 that killed 4. And the most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie , Scotland in 1988, killing 259.

The wake up alarm is getting louder and louder.

The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America . In January 1993, two CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley , Virginia

The following month, February 1993 , a group of terrorists are arrested after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City . Six people are killed and over 1000 are injured. Still this is a crime and not an act of war? The Snooze alarm is depressed again.

Then in November 1995 a car bomb explodes at a US military complex in Riyadh Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women.

A few months later in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35 yards from the US military compound in Dhahran , Saudi Arabia .. It destroys the Khobar Towers , a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over 500. The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that America does not respond decisively.

They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania . These attacks were planned with precision. They kill 224. America responds with cruise missile attacks and goes back to sleep.

The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12 October 2000 , when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war, but we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.

And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001. Most Americans think this was the first attack against US soil or in America .. How wrong they are. America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose to hit the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep.

In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from every high official in government over what they knew and what they didn't know. But if you've read the papers and paid a little attention I think you can see exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the National Security Council to see the pattern that has been developing since 1979.

I think we have been in a war for the past 25 years and it will continue until we as a people decide enough is enough. America needs to 'Get out of Bed' and act decisively now. America has been changed forever. We have to be ready to pay the price and make the sacrifice to ensure our way of life continues. We cannot afford to keep hitting the snooze button again and again and roll over and go back to sleep.

After the attack on Pearl Harbor , Admiral Yamamoto said '... it seems all we have done is awakened a sleeping giant.' This is the message we need to disseminate to terrorists around the world.

This is not a political thing to be hashed over in an election year, this is an AMERICAN thing. This is about our Freedom and the Freedom of our children in years to come.

(09-21-2010 04:56 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  We have been at war with Radical Islam since 1979. Regardless of what the "Gray Area People" say or want to convince you of, There are only two sides to the battle, that is still raging today.

US Navy Captain Ouimette Wrote:AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP!

That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 (When more than 3,000 Americans were killed) and maybe it was, but I think it should have been 'Get Out of Bed!' In fact, the alarm clock has been buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button and roll over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then.

It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran . This seizure was an outright attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's most powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency The attack on this sovereign U. S. Embassy set the stage for events to follow for the next 25 years.

America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Vietnam experience and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President Carter, had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert. The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol of America 's inability to deal with terrorism.

America 's military had been decimated and down sized since the end of the Vietnam War. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start.

Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and killed throughout the Middle East . America could do little to protect her citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil continued.


In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven into the US Embassy compound in Beirut . When it explodes, it kills 63 people. The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once more.

Then just six short months later in 1983 a large truck heavily laden down with over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine Corps headquarters in Beirut and 241 US servicemen are killed. America mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more.

Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait , and America continues her slumber.

The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the gate of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.

Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe . In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid

Then in August 1985 a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rheine-Main, 22 are killed and the snooze alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US interests are continually attacked.

Fifty-nine days later in 1985 a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the passenger list and executed.

The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners when they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 that killed 4. And the most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie , Scotland in 1988, killing 259.

The wake up alarm is getting louder and louder.

The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America . In January 1993, two CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley , Virginia

The following month, February 1993 , a group of terrorists are arrested after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City . Six people are killed and over 1000 are injured. Still this is a crime and not an act of war? The Snooze alarm is depressed again.

Then in November 1995 a car bomb explodes at a US military complex in Riyadh Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women.

A few months later in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35 yards from the US military compound in Dhahran , Saudi Arabia .. It destroys the Khobar Towers , a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over 500. The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that America does not respond decisively.

They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania . These attacks were planned with precision. They kill 224. America responds with cruise missile attacks and goes back to sleep.

The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12 October 2000 , when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war, but we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.

And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001. Most Americans think this was the first attack against US soil or in America .. How wrong they are. America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose to hit the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep.

In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from every high official in government over what they knew and what they didn't know. But if you've read the papers and paid a little attention I think you can see exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the National Security Council to see the pattern that has been developing since 1979.

I think we have been in a war for the past 25 years and it will continue until we as a people decide enough is enough. America needs to 'Get out of Bed' and act decisively now. America has been changed forever. We have to be ready to pay the price and make the sacrifice to ensure our way of life continues. We cannot afford to keep hitting the snooze button again and again and roll over and go back to sleep.

After the attack on Pearl Harbor , Admiral Yamamoto said '... it seems all we have done is awakened a sleeping giant.' This is the message we need to disseminate to terrorists around the world.

This is not a political thing to be hashed over in an election year, this is an AMERICAN thing. This is about our Freedom and the Freedom of our children in years to come.

1979? Try 1095.

(09-21-2010 10:38 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  

(09-21-2010 08:28 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  ... but to pigeon hole them as the only ones who would commit this kind of crime, as WMD Owl implied in his original post is ridiculous.

I'm not speaking for Owl here. But my interpretation of his thread title is that since it became a national news story, the Tea Party has been routinely positioned by certain elements of the media - and most certainly the left-leaning opinionheads - as some radical, racist, unhinged group prone to violence at the drop of a hat. Despite this being largely untrue, the image is still peddled. So the thread title was a jab at those.

That's exactly what it was-- a jab at those that on a knee-jerk blame every violent incident upon members of the Tea Party.

Remember Times Square? Anyone watch CNN that weekend?
Talk about an Anti-Tea Party Smear Job.

And in terms of this wanna be terrorists "justification"... why does he have it out for Mayor Daley, and want to change the administration of the City of Chicago-- when Mayor Daley announced less than two weeks ago that he wasn't going to run for election again?

I call BS on the media whitewash. 6 weeks before the Election, the Obama Administration doesn't want National Security to be an issue that leads to more Democrat losses., so they just label the guy a nut.

This guy thought he was planting a biological based explosive weapon. I'm sorry-- that isn't a political act to change a Mayor- that is an overt act of terrorism.

The "Defendant" is a Lebanese National- and get this...

"A 22-year-old Lebanese medical student who regards Sept. 11 as a "beautiful day" is in custody after placing a backpack containing what he thought was an explosive device into a Wrigleyville trash can, federal authorities said Monday.

Sami Samir Hassoun, of the 4700 block of North Kedzie, has been charged with one count each of attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction and attempted use of an explosive device, the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Chicago office said.

Hassoun's arrest after midnight Saturday comes after a months-long investigation during which he unknowingly worked with an informant and an undercover FBI agent, officials said.

Hassoun also wanted to poison the waters of Lake Michigan, assassinate Mayor Daley and blow up Willis Tower, North America's tallest building. ...."

Yea, just some run of the mill "street punk" we have here. I can't wait to see how many emails he exchanges with people in Yemen.

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/big-ten-...y-fbi.html

Well, he did want to change the administration of Chicago ...

Whatever else he may have wanted (to change the administration of the US, implement Shariah, etc), is simply an error of omission in the article, not an outright lie.

And, to be generous to Islam, maybe he wasn't motivated to do this by his religion. Maybe it's just the culture he was raised in.