(04-21-2010 09:34 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 09:31 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  That's not what I said, NOR what you quoted me as saying. I said (in response to your question about McCain's parents citizenship) that one's PARENTS need not be natural born for YOU to be. HE was clearly a citizen by virtue of his position in the military... naturalized or natural born... no need for his (fathers) birth certificate, and he (McCain) was born on US Soil... a US base. If one is all it takes (which we seem to agree on), then he's good.

Obama is not good. Look up immigration law in 1961. His mother did not meet the requirement and had to be 18 and to convey citizenship to baby barrack.

In addition, Under Indonesian law, when Obama went to school, he could not enrol unless he was a Indonesian citizen, dual citizens cannot be natural born.

Another note.
“Obama’s half-sister, Maya Kassandra Soetoro, was born on August 15, 1970, in Jakarta, Indonesia. Anna registered her birth as “born in Honolulu” shortly after her birth, as well. Maya would have a State of Hawaii Certification of Live Birth (COLB), just like the one Obama posted on the Internet.”

um... I'm talking about McCain. Please... I'm generally on your side with this thing... PLEASE read me more carefully.... this is 2-3 times in this thread alone

IF things are as Obama has claimed, then he IS good. If they are not, then he is not. I generally agree with you. If he wasn't born here... if his mother wasn't old enough... if he renounced citizenship (or I suppose if it was done for him... not 100% clear on that part)... I agree with you... and we DON'T know for certain, and it should be easy to clear up...

but the questions about McCain aren't at all the same. His Parents citizenship isn't in doubt (at least not his fathers, nor his age). The "territory" where he was born isn't in question. He doesn't have anything in his past implying he renounced citizenship.

If there were a renounced citizenship, then it clearly would be a problem, because the reacquired citizenship would not be natural born.

The birth just isn't.

I'm guessing there's some problem somewhere, but probably not exactly what we think. And it's probably politically damaging rather than legally fatal.

I could see that there might be some sort of paper trail where he told people he was American here for this purpose, then turned around and told people he was Indonesian there for that purpose. A pattern of telling whatever lie he had to tell to get people to do what he wanted at that point would not surprise me. It's pretty much what I've seen in his campaigning and presidential activities.

(04-22-2010 09:09 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 09:34 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-21-2010 09:31 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  That's not what I said, NOR what you quoted me as saying. I said (in response to your question about McCain's parents citizenship) that one's PARENTS need not be natural born for YOU to be. HE was clearly a citizen by virtue of his position in the military... naturalized or natural born... no need for his (fathers) birth certificate, and he (McCain) was born on US Soil... a US base. If one is all it takes (which we seem to agree on), then he's good.

Obama is not good. Look up immigration law in 1961. His mother did not meet the requirement and had to be 18 and to convey citizenship to baby barrack.

In addition, Under Indonesian law, when Obama went to school, he could not enrol unless he was a Indonesian citizen, dual citizens cannot be natural born.

Another note.
“Obama’s half-sister, Maya Kassandra Soetoro, was born on August 15, 1970, in Jakarta, Indonesia. Anna registered her birth as “born in Honolulu” shortly after her birth, as well. Maya would have a State of Hawaii Certification of Live Birth (COLB), just like the one Obama posted on the Internet.”

um... I'm talking about McCain. Please... I'm generally on your side with this thing... PLEASE read me more carefully.... this is 2-3 times in this thread alone

IF things are as Obama has claimed, then he IS good. If they are not, then he is not. I generally agree with you. If he wasn't born here... if his mother wasn't old enough... if he renounced citizenship (or I suppose if it was done for him... not 100% clear on that part)... I agree with you... and we DON'T know for certain, and it should be easy to clear up...

but the questions about McCain aren't at all the same. His Parents citizenship isn't in doubt (at least not his fathers, nor his age). The "territory" where he was born isn't in question. He doesn't have anything in his past implying he renounced citizenship.

Sorry, I misunderstood, McCain is clearly natural born.

The thing is a person with dual citizenship cannot be natural born. Obama may have had Indonesian Citizenship by his father and a Indonesian Passport. He may have even enrolled as a foreign exchange student at one point.

(04-22-2010 11:51 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  The thing is a person with dual citizenship cannot be natural born.

Source?

Quote:The Constitution contains the term "natural born" for a US president. This term was used to prevent anyone with the possibility of having a foreign allegiance from becoming commander-in-chief of US forces, for obvious reasons (super fifth column, anyone?) A person with dual citizenship owes allegiance to both the US and the foreign government. They are required to obey the laws of both countries, which of course for a sitting US President would be disastrous to the US nation.

The term "natural born" is used to mean a singular allegiance to one and only one nation. Dual citizenship contradicts this.

(Note that it is unique that the US president is also the commander-in-chief, which entrusts the office of president with great power, so a concern of allegiance was on the minds of the framers of the Constitution. Senators and Representatives can be naturalized; the President cannot, because of the Commander-In-Chief power.)

All NATURALIZED citizens have to take an oath of ALLEGIANCE, to confirm they only have allegiance to the US and no other country. But this is not enough to fully repudiate possible allegiances to other countries.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_a_US_presi...itizenship

(04-22-2010 12:15 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-22-2010 11:51 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  The thing is a person with dual citizenship cannot be natural born.

Source?

I found this interesting.
http://federalistblog.us/2008/11/natural...fined.html

He was born with duel citizenships.

Quote:“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.”

Obamas own website.
http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/bir...icate.html

More reading.
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/do...nship.html
http://www.hillarynme.com/2008/11/15/pro...ain-sight/
http://hesnotmypresident.wordpress.com/2...tizenship/

It would just be wonderful to know the TRUTH ! ! ! Let the liar tag then be so applied to whomever it fits. BHO just may be the biggest liar of all time. He has done NOTHING to justify anything to the contrary.

So let it be over. :muttering:

(04-22-2010 05:47 PM)tigertom Wrote:  It would just be wonderful to know the TRUTH ! ! ! Let the liar tag then be so applied to whomever it fits. BHO just may be the biggest liar of all time. He has done NOTHING to justify anything to the contrary.

So let it be over. :muttering:

Ok. Please read this. Pick up the phone. Dial the nearest mental health facility. Drive to the location. See a doctor. Get the meds you need to help your mental disorder.

(04-22-2010 01:04 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

Quote:The Constitution contains the term "natural born" for a US president. This term was used to prevent anyone with the possibility of having a foreign allegiance from becoming commander-in-chief of US forces, for obvious reasons (super fifth column, anyone?) A person with dual citizenship owes allegiance to both the US and the foreign government. They are required to obey the laws of both countries, which of course for a sitting US President would be disastrous to the US nation.

The term "natural born" is used to mean a singular allegiance to one and only one nation. Dual citizenship contradicts this.

(Note that it is unique that the US president is also the commander-in-chief, which entrusts the office of president with great power, so a concern of allegiance was on the minds of the framers of the Constitution. Senators and Representatives can be naturalized; the President cannot, because of the Commander-In-Chief power.)

All NATURALIZED citizens have to take an oath of ALLEGIANCE, to confirm they only have allegiance to the US and no other country. But this is not enough to fully repudiate possible allegiances to other countries.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_a_US_presi...itizenship

I wouldn't call your source a constitutional scholar, even less of one than Obama. You got any statute or case cites?

Obama slams Arizona immigration bill

By the CNN Wire Staff April 23, 2010 11:45 a.m. EDT

Washington (CNN) -- President Obama on Friday criticized a controversial new immigration bill in Arizona, calling it "misguided."
"Our failure to act responsible at the federal level will only open the door to irresponsibility by others. That includes, for example, the recent efforts in Arizona, which threaten to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans, as well as the trust between police and their communities that is so crucial to keeping us safe," the president said at a naturalization ceremony for 24 members of the military.

"In fact, I've instructed members of my administration to closely monitor the situation and examine the civil rights and other implications of this legislation. But if we continue to fail to act at the federal level, we will continue to see misguided efforts opening up around the country."
Obama added, "As a nation, as a people, we can choose a different future, a future that keeps faith with our history, with our heritage, and with the hope that America has always inspired in the hearts of people all over the world."
The bill would require immigrants to carry their alien registration documents at all times and require police to question people if there's reason to suspect they're in the United States illegally. It also targets those who hire illegal immigrant day laborers or knowingly transport them.

Currently, officers can check someone's immigration status if the person is suspected in another crime.
Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer, a Republican, is nearing a Saturday deadline to decide what action she may take on the bill, considered to be among the toughest immigration measures in the nation.
Critics argue the new law would foster racial profiling, saying most police officers don't have enough training to look past race while investigating a person's legal status.

Some Latino members of Congress have urged Brewer to veto the bill, arguing that it unconstitutionally authorizes discrimination.
Supporters said the measure is needed to fill a void left by the federal government's failure to enforce immigration laws. Its leading sponsor, state Sen. Russell Pearce, said, "Illegal is not a race, it's a crime."

Pearce, a Republican, said, "We're going to take the handcuffs off of law enforcement. We're going to put them on the bad guy."

(04-21-2010 07:44 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

Question....is it normal for Kenyan birth certificates to be in English? Is that the language used there?

English would be the right language, but I don't think "British Protectorate of Kenya" is the right name for the country at that point in time.

(04-23-2010 03:19 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  

Great post. These poor righties. So uninformed.