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Teams BE may look at
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HowardD11 Offline
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Post: #81
RE: Teams BE may look at
(04-20-2010 09:04 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  I am sorry but Marshall is not in the top 5 or 7 candidates here. I'd rather get Nova and/or Gtown in on a ramp up plan for football and other sports vs Marshall. Does Marshall do anything else besides football?

UCF/ECU/Memphis/Temple/TCU/Houston/Nova and Gtown ramp up

ECU and MEMPHIS aren't candidates because buckaineer said so!!!
(This post was last modified: 04-20-2010 09:06 AM by HowardD11.)
04-20-2010 09:06 AM
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buckaineer Offline
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Post: #82
RE: Teams BE may look at
(04-20-2010 08:27 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  
(04-20-2010 08:17 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  If the remnants in fb left the basketball conference your scenario would be true. Why would the football schools who think they may be approached soon by other conferences themselves, desire to throw away the only thing they have left of any quality, their basketball affiliation with the Big East Conference, to join temporarily CUSA east? There is nothing to gain in that, independence would be better.

I strongly believe that whichever NE Big East school the Big 10 doesn't take, the ACC will take. If we are left with WVU, UC, UL and USF, the basketball schools - most of whom strongly opposed bringing WVU, et al. into the league as all-sports members - will cut ties. They know the expansion candidates just as well as we do, and there is no benefit for them to play the likes of ECU, UCF, etc. If they fought against WVU, you think they will agree to trips to Greenville, NC just so they can continue to be latched onto what would at that point be a greatly diminished football conference? No. They will cut us adrift, bringing in Xavier and St. Louis, and happily continue their merry way without us.

Academic considerations ARE important - for some leagues, and if you have the luxury to take those things into consideration. We will not have that luxury. It's all about money, survival and positioning within the college athletics food chain. Where a school like Memphis compares with a school like Buffalo on some magazine's analysis of academic reputation is not going to mean zip when it comes to FB expansion for whatever is left over of the BE football conference.

I have said and am trying to convey that the bb schools will not want to deal with the likes of ECU, Memphis, etc. I agree 100% on this. On the other points though, WVU and UL and to a degree Cincinnati are STILL relevant basketball programs for the Big East. They are going to lose probably three or four of Syracuse, Uconn, Pittsburgh and Notre Dame (plus Rutgers). BE basketball isn't going to just chuck WVU and Louisville away, who do you replace all those lost power teams with?-plus I don't know how they could legally accomplish this-it isn't the football teams fault that some other members left. It benefits both sides to stay together still.

Football is going to be reeling and looking for joining future superconferences, they aren't going to be trying to be drop down to the level of CUSA east.
04-20-2010 09:06 AM
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wvucrazed Offline
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Post: #83
RE: Teams BE may look at
(04-20-2010 09:04 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  I am sorry but Marshall is not in the top 5 or 7 candidates here. I'd rather get Nova and/or Gtown in on a ramp up plan for football and other sports vs Marshall. Does Marshall do anything else besides football?

UCF/ECU/Memphis/Temple/TCU/Houston/Nova and Gtown ramp up

Villanova and Georgetown are not in any position to think about 1-A football any time in the near future - especially Georgetown. Villanova doesn't have the $$, facilities or fan support to support a move to 1-A. There are other 1-AA schools in the region that have more promise long-term that could potentially make a move, and there are some new 1-A programs that could have long-term potential. But none of them will be in position to help us anytime soon.
04-20-2010 09:09 AM
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LUVECU Offline
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Post: #84
RE: Teams BE may look at
This is pure comedy - please keep it rolling. 03-lmfao
04-20-2010 09:12 AM
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buckaineer Offline
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Post: #85
RE: Teams BE may look at
(04-20-2010 09:04 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  I am sorry but Marshall is not in the top 5 or 7 candidates here. I'd rather get Nova and/or Gtown in on a ramp up plan for football and other sports vs Marshall. Does Marshall do anything else besides football?

UCF/ECU/Memphis/Temple/TCU/Houston/Nova and Gtown ramp up

You like ECU but not Marshall? Marshall basketball is eons better than ECU bb for one. MU basketball this year beat ECU 100-49. Football wise they are very similar although I would say Marshall is better known nationally because of their winning in the 90's, multiple NFL stars and yes the tragedy that befell them. Marshall has higher academics and is in a larger DMA.
04-20-2010 09:12 AM
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wvucrazed Offline
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Post: #86
RE: Teams BE may look at
(04-20-2010 09:06 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  I have said and am trying to convey that the bb schools will not want to deal with the likes of ECU, Memphis, etc. I agree 100% on this. On the other points though, WVU and UL and to a degree Cincinnati are STILL relevant basketball programs for the Big East. They are going to lose probably three or four of Syracuse, Uconn, Pittsburgh and Notre Dame (plus Rutgers). BE basketball isn't going to just chuck WVU and Louisville away, who do you replace all those lost power teams with?-plus I don't know how they could legally accomplish this-it isn't the football teams fault that some other members left. It benefits both sides to stay together still.

Football is going to be reeling and looking for joining future superconferences, they aren't going to be trying to be drop down to the level of CUSA east.

On the one hand you are saying that the BB schools will NOT want to be in a conference w/ ECU, UCF, etc. Agreed.

On the other hand, you are saying the BB schools would not want to sever their associations with UL and WVU.

The problem is you can't have one and not the other. The reality is this: in all likelihood, UC, UCF, USF, ECU, Memphis, UL and WVU and one or 2 others (Temple? Southern Miss?) are going to be in a conference together very soon. The BB schools - who fought to keep WVU out of the league - are not going to go to bat to keep a team they didn't want in the first place just so they can have the pleasure of trips to places like ECU, UCF and maybe USM. They will have the power and the leverage and the BE name. If the worst happens, and UC, USF, WVU and UL are left by the NE schools to the Big 10 and ACC, then there will be no reason at all that the BE BB schools would want to keep the current affiliation intact.
04-20-2010 09:16 AM
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JunkYardCard Offline
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Post: #87
RE: Teams BE may look at
FAU will get in before Marshall.
04-20-2010 09:17 AM
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wvucrazed Offline
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Post: #88
RE: Teams BE may look at
(04-20-2010 09:17 AM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  FAU will get in before Marshall.

Yup. FAU and FIU have loads of potential. Unfortunately both are many years away from being ready to help us.
04-20-2010 09:19 AM
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buckaineer Offline
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Post: #89
RE: Teams BE may look at
(04-20-2010 09:16 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  
(04-20-2010 09:06 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  I have said and am trying to convey that the bb schools will not want to deal with the likes of ECU, Memphis, etc. I agree 100% on this. On the other points though, WVU and UL and to a degree Cincinnati are STILL relevant basketball programs for the Big East. They are going to lose probably three or four of Syracuse, Uconn, Pittsburgh and Notre Dame (plus Rutgers). BE basketball isn't going to just chuck WVU and Louisville away, who do you replace all those lost power teams with?-plus I don't know how they could legally accomplish this-it isn't the football teams fault that some other members left. It benefits both sides to stay together still.

Football is going to be reeling and looking for joining future superconferences, they aren't going to be trying to be drop down to the level of CUSA east.

On the one hand you are saying that the BB schools will NOT want to be in a conference w/ ECU, UCF, etc. Agreed.

On the other hand, you are saying the BB schools would not want to sever their associations with UL and WVU.

The problem is you can't have one and not the other. The reality is this: in all likelihood, UC, UCF, USF, ECU, Memphis, UL and WVU and one or 2 others (Temple? Southern Miss?) are going to be in a conference together very soon. The BB schools - who fought to keep WVU out of the league - are not going to go to bat to keep a team they didn't want in the first place just so they can have the pleasure of trips to places like ECU, UCF and maybe USM. They will have the power and the leverage and the BE name. If the worst happens, and UC, USF, WVU and UL are left by the NE schools to the Big 10 and ACC, then there will be no reason at all that the BE BB schools would want to keep the current affiliation intact.

Yes you can. I've listed multiple "candidates" some of which are tier 1 institutions-the worst being tier 4. You could add Navy, TCU, UCF, all of these and several other would meet the academic criteria. I'd guess Temple with excellent basketball would be in their. Villanova will be asked again to upgrade football. Umass may be asked to upgrade--who knows but there are many teams I listed that have football and basketball programs and strong academics as well. ECU and Memphis do not.
04-20-2010 09:24 AM
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wvucrazed Offline
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Post: #90
RE: Teams BE may look at
(04-20-2010 09:24 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  Yes you can. I've listed multiple "candidates" some of which are tier 1 institutions-the worst being tier 4. You could add Navy, TCU, UCF, all of these and several other would meet the academic criteria. I'd guess Temple with excellent basketball would be in their. Villanova will be asked again to upgrade football. Umass may be asked to upgrade--who knows but there are many teams I listed that have football and basketball programs and strong academics as well. ECU and Memphis do not.

Villanova is not in position to upgrade to 1-A, nor is UMASS. And even if they were and both started plans to upgrade tomorrow, it would be many years before they'd be ready for membership in a major 1-A conference.

You think Villanova and St. Johns would thumb their nose at trips to Greenville, NC but happily bring in the likes of TCU and Buffalo just so they can continue to give a lifeline to the football schools, which at that point would be more an anchor around their necks than a benefit? No. They will have the opportunity to bring in additional members with strong academic profiles - who do not play football.
(This post was last modified: 04-20-2010 09:31 AM by wvucrazed.)
04-20-2010 09:30 AM
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Capital Pirate Offline
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Post: #91
RE: Teams BE may look at
(04-20-2010 08:36 AM)SPHerd Wrote:  
(04-20-2010 08:16 AM)Capital Pirate Wrote:  
(04-20-2010 08:12 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  They will look to add teams that their presidents can comfortably "hang out" with in the various meetings and get togethers that university presidents have. That isn't likely to be southern, distant tier 4 university presidents.

Just when I thought I had seen it all.......03-lmfao

There you have it, folks.....expansion will be based on, among other things, how well the University Presidents get along so as to not ruin the atmosphere at the annual Big East picnic......

I'm hanging on the edge of my seat to see what our resident "insider" comes up with next......03-idea


If you don't think politics will play a part in this then you must be too young to remember the last expansion round i.e., see ACC/Virginia Tech.

Uhhh......there was no mention of "politics" in the poster's thread - unless you are equating "politics" with "hanging out" - and I didn't.....

...as for age, I'd bet I'm close to being old enough to be your father......so nice try.
04-20-2010 09:30 AM
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CardinalJim Online
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Post: #92
RE: Teams BE may look at
The Big East can not and will not use some fabricated subjective Tier system to determine who to invite to join the conference. If that were the case might as well become a true eastern conference and invite the entire Ivy League. Jurich and the other Big East reps may use academic profiles to evaluate potential expansion candidates but it will be a small part of a big puzzle.
CJ
04-20-2010 09:34 AM
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WVUeer Offline
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Post: #93
RE: Teams BE may look at
buckaineer Wrote:MU basketball this year beat ECU 100-49.

Wow, thats downright embarrasing for any team to get beat that bad regardless of who you are.
04-20-2010 09:36 AM
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Capital Pirate Offline
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RE: Teams BE may look at
(04-20-2010 09:36 AM)WVUeer Wrote:  
buckaineer Wrote:MU basketball this year beat ECU 100-49.

Wow, thats downright embarrasing for any team to get beat that bad regardless of who you are.

Absolutely.....it was pathetic......of note, though, is the fact that after that humiliation, a few games later we beat UCF at UCF......so it is all relative, I suppose...
(This post was last modified: 04-20-2010 09:41 AM by Capital Pirate.)
04-20-2010 09:39 AM
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LUVECU Offline
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Post: #95
RE: Teams BE may look at
Yeah, we suck in basketball. Too bad Marshall's coach left for UCF. Hey, that also MIGHT be a pretty good sign that UCF will get an invite.
04-20-2010 09:41 AM
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MichaelSavage Offline
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Post: #96
RE: Teams BE may look at
(04-20-2010 09:41 AM)LUVECU Wrote:  Yeah, we suck in basketball. Too bad Marshall's coach left for UCF. Hey, that also MIGHT be a pretty good sign that UCF will get an invite.

It would certainly explain what at the time looked like a lateral move.
04-20-2010 09:48 AM
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Post: #97
RE: Teams BE may look at
(04-20-2010 08:36 AM)Chappy Wrote:  
(04-20-2010 08:25 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  
(04-20-2010 08:17 AM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  I'll stand by my list, and you stand by yours. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. We'll know soon enough. But if Tulsa, Tulane, Army, Buffalo, Marshall, Ohio, or any of those other crazy ideas end up in the conference, then we may as well pack it in now.

This phenomenon of academics dictating sports associations is just as stupid as allowing sports associations to dictate academics. Can you imagine Harvard and Stanford declining to collaborate on the cure for cancer because they are in different conferences? The entire concept is idiotic. The one has nothing to do with the other.

And if ECU or Memphis end up in it, the same will be true, say goodbye to BCS and what was the BE falls off the college football map.

Your notion that an academic 'reputation' grade (and I'll remind you that the president of the University of Florida gave the exact same grade to both East Carolina and West Virginia) is more important than ticket sales in regards to receiving an automatic bid to a big time bowl game is ludicrous.

FWIW, the president of the University of Florida also gave UF a higher score than Harvard.

I also find it amusing that West Virginia, Lousiville, Cincinnati, and South Florida (the four that will surely remain) are all Tier 3 schools and we're discussing the academic merits (with a WVU fan leading the charge) of potential members.
04-20-2010 10:09 AM
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Pervis_Griffith Offline
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RE: Teams BE may look at
(04-20-2010 10:09 AM)99Tiger Wrote:  
(04-20-2010 08:36 AM)Chappy Wrote:  
(04-20-2010 08:25 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  
(04-20-2010 08:17 AM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  I'll stand by my list, and you stand by yours. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. We'll know soon enough. But if Tulsa, Tulane, Army, Buffalo, Marshall, Ohio, or any of those other crazy ideas end up in the conference, then we may as well pack it in now.

This phenomenon of academics dictating sports associations is just as stupid as allowing sports associations to dictate academics. Can you imagine Harvard and Stanford declining to collaborate on the cure for cancer because they are in different conferences? The entire concept is idiotic. The one has nothing to do with the other.

And if ECU or Memphis end up in it, the same will be true, say goodbye to BCS and what was the BE falls off the college football map.

Your notion that an academic 'reputation' grade (and I'll remind you that the president of the University of Florida gave the exact same grade to both East Carolina and West Virginia) is more important than ticket sales in regards to receiving an automatic bid to a big time bowl game is ludicrous.

FWIW, the president of the University of Florida also gave UF a higher score than Harvard.

I also find it amusing that West Virginia, Lousiville, Cincinnati, and South Florida (the four that will surely remain) are all Tier 3 schools and we're discussing the academic merits (with a WVU fan leading the charge) of potential members.



Agreed.

Big East invitations will go out with ZERO attention paid to "Tier" status.

This is about salvaging football.

Who brings BCS credibility? --- TCU
Who brings rabid fanbase that travels? -- ECU
Who has football tradition, solid natl perception? -- Navy
Can anyone else get close to helping these 3 areas? -- UCF, Memphis, Houston

Its a small list.

Beggars can't be choosers.
04-20-2010 10:24 AM
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Pervis_Griffith Offline
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RE: Teams BE may look at
(04-20-2010 09:12 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  
(04-20-2010 09:04 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  I am sorry but Marshall is not in the top 5 or 7 candidates here. I'd rather get Nova and/or Gtown in on a ramp up plan for football and other sports vs Marshall. Does Marshall do anything else besides football?

UCF/ECU/Memphis/Temple/TCU/Houston/Nova and Gtown ramp up

You like ECU but not Marshall? Marshall basketball is eons better than ECU bb for one. MU basketball this year beat ECU 100-49. Football wise they are very similar although I would say Marshall is better known nationally because of their winning in the 90's, multiple NFL stars and yes the tragedy that befell them. Marshall has higher academics and is in a larger DMA.


ECU beats Marshall where it counts. Butts in the seats and travel to bowl games.

It's not about basketball. It's not about Matthew McConaughy movies. It's not about DMA's.
04-20-2010 10:26 AM
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Chappy Offline
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RE: Teams BE may look at
(04-20-2010 10:26 AM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  It's not about Matthew McConaughy movies.


LOL...
04-20-2010 10:36 AM
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