(04-12-2010 12:03 PM)jh Wrote: (04-12-2010 11:12 AM)Brookes Owl Wrote: What green energy (or industry, for that matter) ISN'T subsidized? I'm working on landfill gas-to-energy right now and we can't do it without subsidies from the power company. We've also looked at solar (landfills have lots of open space) but the numbers still don't work because we're non profit so we have to farm it out. That's right - it only works if you get the tax breaks!
We've got people clamoring for a green-based economy but I'd like someone to give me just a couple of examples of green industries that produce a non-subsidized ROI. I really would like to know if there are some out there.
It appears that the organic foods industry is profitable & doesn't get any more subsidies than regular farmers. Which, of course, is part of the problem. Try finding an industry that isn't subsidized. Oil & nuclear are both subsidized, heck even coal is subsidized.
Yes, this is why it is improper to call what we have capitalism.
More than anything it is corporatism, arguably closer to fascism with its corporate state than any of the other main lines of economic thinking (capitalism, socialism, communism). And with what's happened with the banks and car companies, under both Shrub and Obama, we are getting closer to fascism all the time.
If the subsidies attributable to oil (mostly placed there under democrat presidents, FWIW) and coal (also mostly arisng under democrats, to placate their UMW constituency) were removed, alternatives would be much more competitive. That's why a carbon tax or cap-and-trade doesn't really bother me that much--
as long as they are offset by tax relief elsewhere, in order to be revenue-neutral or nearly so. Otherwise, they would stifle the economy too much, and unfortunately this administration and congress seem to be approaching this from the "otherwise" direction.
Pure supply-and-demand doesn't really work best for oil or coal because of the subsidies and the externalities (pollution, war in Mideast, etc.). Get those things adequately priced in the system, and supply-and-demand would take care of the problem quite nicely, thank you. Way more nicely than any governement program or bureaucrat.