Yep.

(03-08-2010 04:18 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  We're apparently on top of this football thing for now; so lets get BB on track. Basketball programs turn around fast with the right coach.

Let it play out. Still too early to completely cut and run. You want to cut a guy loose when he has had one single four year player go through the system.

(03-08-2010 04:30 PM)subflea Wrote:  

(03-08-2010 04:18 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  We're apparently on top of this football thing for now; so lets get BB on track. Basketball programs turn around fast with the right coach.

Let it play out. Still too early to completely cut and run. You want to cut a guy loose when he has had one single four year player go through the system.

That's been my line as well. When I think about it, that makes sense. But my confidence in Cronin wanes more and more every time I watch this team play.

(03-08-2010 04:21 PM)Eastside_J Wrote:  

(03-08-2010 12:06 PM)subflea Wrote:  

(03-08-2010 11:16 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  UC hoops history would look a lot brighter if you could just delete that part of it.

It's too bad that MT doesn't appreciate that; perhaps he will before we hit the 11-year mark.

Or the current head coach could succeed, showing that MT knew what he was doing.

Sub,

X2 -I agree with your position and view throughout this thread

It gets tiring doesn't it?

No doubt.

(03-08-2010 03:36 PM)subflea Wrote:  When was Cox's DUI? I believe it was several years before most even knew who he was. I don't think he was directly mentoring college students at the time either.

It predated Huggins DUI and was one of the reasons Zimph didn't pull the trigger earlier...legal ramifications from what I heard. My sources indicated that Cox is still a heavy drinker, so it lasted at least through his tenure on the BOT. While Cox may not have been mentoring college students, he was certainly making decisions that affected the entire student body...in fact, he was probably in a position of greater responsibility than a MBB coach.

(03-08-2010 03:36 PM)subflea Wrote:  Chris Henry and Pac Man Jones were model citizens while they were at WVU too. It may have more to do with the school keeping things swept under the rug.

Or the school may have the jack to pay for more officials serving in a disciplinary function...neither of us will ever know since we don't serve on the staff of the WVU AD.

(03-08-2010 03:36 PM)subflea Wrote:  So are you saying that players getting in trouble over and over again is OK, as long as we are winning and people are coming through the turnstile?

This is really the gristle of the whole argument--my stance is that it's OK as long as they develop into productive citizens over time. Those in your camp feel that it's more important to filter out the potential for bad behavior at the door instead of taking the risk to change the lives of kids from disadvantaged backgrounds so that they have the opportunity to become productive citizens. If a school takes the risk with these kids, great reward potentially lies ahead...however, off-the-court incidents could occur if you take that approach.

Personally, I enjoyed watching Bob take a kid off the streets of Kenosha to become an NBA luminary. Other coaches would have let him fester on the streets.

But I guess that's a matter for personal taste.

So...if you want a completely clean program--you can certainly do that easily--just take Rhodes Scholars alone and talk about your grad rate and high standards. In that fashion, you can avoid the hard work of turning around lives on the downward spiral and tell people how well-behaved your student athletes are.

I know that's what Nance wanted to do...not just with MBB, but with the whole University.

I guess that's why you are in her camp.

I just think that taking the easy road leaves a lot of lives out in the cold.

(03-08-2010 03:36 PM)subflea Wrote:  When was Cox's DUI? I believe it was several years before most even knew who he was. I don't think he was directly mentoring college students at the time either.

It predated Huggins DUI and was one of the reasons Zimph didn't pull the trigger earlier...legal ramifications from what I heard. While Cox may not have been mentoring college students, he was certainly making decisions that affected the entire student body...in fact, he was probably in a position of greater responsibility than a MBB coach.

(03-08-2010 03:36 PM)subflea Wrote:  Chris Henry and Pac Man Jones were model citizens while they were at WVU too. It may have more to do with the school keeping things swept under the rug.

Or the school may have the jack to pay for more officials serving in a disciplinary function...neither of us will ever know since we don't serve on the staff of the WVU AD.

(03-08-2010 03:36 PM)subflea Wrote:  So are you saying that players getting in trouble over and over again is OK, as long as we are winning and people are coming through the turnstile?

This is really the gristle of the whole argument--my stance is that it's OK as long as they develop into productive citizens over time. Those in your camp feel that it's more important to filter out the potential for bad behavior at the door instead of taking the risk to change the lives of kids from disadvantaged backgrounds so that they have the opportunity to become productive citizens. With that risk comes great reward...however, the potential for off-the-court incidents does increase if you take that approach.

Personally, I enjoyed watching Bob take a kid off the streets of Kenosha to become an NBA luminary. Other coaches would have let him fester on the streets.

But I guess that's a matter for personal taste.

So...if you want a completely clean program--you can certainly do that easily--just take Rhodes Scholars alone and talk about your grad rate and high standards. In that fashion, you can avoid the hard work of turning around lives on the downward spiral and tell people how well-behaved your student athletes are.

I know that's what Nance wanted to do...not just with MBB, but with the whole University.

I guess that's why you are in her camp.

I just think that taking the easy road leaves a lot of lives out in the cold.

(03-08-2010 03:36 PM)subflea Wrote:  When was Cox's DUI? I believe it was several years before most even knew who he was. I don't think he was directly mentoring college students at the time either.

It predated Huggins DUI and was one of the reasons Zimph didn't pull the trigger earlier...legal ramifications from what I heard. While Cox may not have been mentoring college students, he was certainly making decisions that affected the entire student body...in fact, he was probably in a position of greater responsibility than a MBB coach.

(03-08-2010 03:36 PM)subflea Wrote:  Chris Henry and Pac Man Jones were model citizens while they were at WVU too. It may have more to do with the school keeping things swept under the rug.

Or the school may have the jack to pay for more officials serving in a disciplinary function...neither of us will ever know since we don't serve on the staff of the WVU AD.

(03-08-2010 03:36 PM)subflea Wrote:  So are you saying that players getting in trouble over and over again is OK, as long as we are winning and people are coming through the turnstile?

This is really the gristle of the whole argument--my stance is that it's OK as long as they develop into productive citizens over time. Those in your camp feel that it's more important to filter out the potential for bad behavior at the door instead of taking the risk to change the lives of kids from disadvantaged backgrounds so that they have the opportunity to become productive citizens. With that risk comes great reward...however, the potential for off-the-court incidents does increase if you take that approach.

Personally, I enjoyed watching Bob take a kid off the streets of Kenosha to become an NBA luminary. Other coaches would have let him fester on the streets.

But I guess that's a matter for personal taste.

So...if you want a completely clean program--you can certainly do that easily--just take Rhodes Scholars alone and talk about your grad rate and high standards. In that fashion, you can avoid the hard work of turning around lives on the downward spiral and tell people how well-behaved your student athletes are.

I know that's what Nance wanted to do...not just with MBB, but with the whole University.

I guess that's why you are in her camp.

I just think that taking the easy road leaves a lot of lives out in the cold.

You felt so strongly you posted it 3 times?

(03-08-2010 09:59 PM)subflea Wrote:  You felt so strongly you posted it 3 times?

I get this spinning wheel that doesn't indicate the post went through...it's strange...it's like the "Post Reply" button hangs on my machine.

Anyone else experiencing this?

I'm using Firefox out of OSX (PowerPC).

You really have no idea why Huggins was fired, do you?

I am/was a Bob Huggins fan when he was the coach of the UC Bearcats basketball team. I admired his methods.

When Bob was fired, I lost all respect for the man. He was let go for a very good reason that I have given my word that I wouldn't divulge. So, I won't. It was not for the DUI, although that is a convenient excuse and keeps most barking dogs off the scent.

I am real tired of reading/hearing all these love songs to 5 years past. Can't you people understand that he is gone and he is not coming back? And neither are Andy Kennedy and Frank Martin. Stop deluding yourselves and come live in the present sh!tty world of UC basketball. it ain't much, but it is damn sure all we have for now.

I never thought that was the reason he was fired. It was an excuse. I never bought the "image" argument leveled against the players either.

I've heard it was adultery with Jeff Wyler's mistress....well...we've seen worse than that from Pitino--he's still at UL.. And if that was the case, why was Wyler allowed to hang around the BOT?

I don't think he bought players..if he had...we'd have heard more from the NCAA than we already have.

I don't think he killed anyone...

I don't think he dealt drugs..

I don't think he skimmed $$ from the University..

And I don't think there was a gambling scandal...that would be too hard to keep quiet..

So...if it was adultery, it's the BOT's call..
But if it's fidelity issues that pull the chain...why isn't Cronin gone? He just got a divorce. Can't be a solid domestic situation there either.

But I still saw no effort to work with Bob on any of this after Z took over

It wasn't just Zimpher, Steger wasn't much of a fan either. Huggins has always had issues with administrative types. He has had some issues with some of those above him at WVU as well.

It also wasn't just one thing that got Huggs forced out, it was a combination of things.

Converle, why are you doing this? Honestly. Its 2010. World is reportedly ending in just 2 years. Do you really want to spend them rehashing your material from several years ago?