(03-02-2010 09:32 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  What would make you think that those three schools would be brought in immediately-if those three were brought in then football would be weakened dramatically and the BCS bid is unlikely to be AQ anymore.

Good point... let's instead go with Penn State, Maryland and Virginia Tech!! I'm sure they'll be more than eager to sign on.

(03-02-2010 09:29 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(03-02-2010 09:13 AM)SO#1 Wrote:  Why, are they still insisting on listing Notre Dame?
Or Pittsburgh, when Penn State has the region covers.

I've said before that none of us really knows the value of any of the teams mentioned. Pitt's research dollars are much higher than the others and I'd suspect trying to get their hands on that money would have alot to do with it. None of us really even knows what the BTN is getting in PA or what kind of viewership Pitt gets nationally. Just speculation on these boards and elsewhere that they wouldn't bring enough value. Obviously they bring more than people think or they wouldn't still be so high on the list.

CIC existed to help their members, not the other way around. And Notre Dame, repeatedly turn down every invitation out there, publicly not in secret.

(03-02-2010 09:36 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(03-02-2010 09:32 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  What would make you think that those three schools would be brought in immediately-if those three were brought in then football would be weakened dramatically and the BCS bid is unlikely to be AQ anymore.

Good point... let's instead go with Penn State, Maryland and Virginia Tech!! I'm sure they'll be more than eager to sign on.

there are other teams the BE can try and get just as the Big Ten is trying to get ND with 0 chance of it happening. You don't start at the bottom.

(03-02-2010 09:40 AM)SO#1 Wrote:  

(03-02-2010 09:29 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(03-02-2010 09:13 AM)SO#1 Wrote:  Why, are they still insisting on listing Notre Dame?
Or Pittsburgh, when Penn State has the region covers.

I've said before that none of us really knows the value of any of the teams mentioned. Pitt's research dollars are much higher than the others and I'd suspect trying to get their hands on that money would have alot to do with it. None of us really even knows what the BTN is getting in PA or what kind of viewership Pitt gets nationally. Just speculation on these boards and elsewhere that they wouldn't bring enough value. Obviously they bring more than people think or they wouldn't still be so high on the list.

CIC existed to help their members, not the other way around. And Notre Dame, repeatedly turn down every invitation out there, publicly not in secret.

? Not following what you are trying to get across here

(03-02-2010 09:40 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(03-02-2010 09:36 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(03-02-2010 09:32 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  What would make you think that those three schools would be brought in immediately-if those three were brought in then football would be weakened dramatically and the BCS bid is unlikely to be AQ anymore.

Good point... let's instead go with Penn State, Maryland and Virginia Tech!! I'm sure they'll be more than eager to sign on.

there are other teams the BE can try and get just as the Big Ten is trying to get ND with 0 chance of it happening. You don't start at the bottom.

True. Just like last time, you send a representative to gauge Notre Dame & Penn State's interest. After that is immediately rebuffed, it's the C-USA route just like last time.

(03-02-2010 09:40 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(03-02-2010 09:36 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(03-02-2010 09:32 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  What would make you think that those three schools would be brought in immediately-if those three were brought in then football would be weakened dramatically and the BCS bid is unlikely to be AQ anymore.

Good point... let's instead go with Penn State, Maryland and Virginia Tech!! I'm sure they'll be more than eager to sign on.

there are other teams the BE can try and get just as the Big Ten is trying to get ND with 0 chance of it happening. You don't start at the bottom.

No, actually there aren't. Look at CUSA east, the MAC, the Sun Belt and perhaps a couple 1-AA schools and start-ups that could be candidates in 5 to 7 years. That's it: the pool of candidates. The BE can't lure anybody beyond that even WITH SU, Pitt and Rutgers. Trying to do so without them would be an exercise in futility and probably public embarrassment.

"inelegance"- would be dropped by GG or any college president explaining why 11 teams is hard to deal with instead of just saying it creates a lot of problems schedule wise...see the 3 way tie about to happen in big 10 hoops and numerous conf title ties on the football side. I think the big 10 is going to 12 and cap it there for awhile, not sure if the conf football title game will be in chicago or indy but i'd go with chicago for football and indy for hoops. As for which team x get the 12 spot, i'd put the 5 the big 10 reviewed as the clear favorites with maryland and uconn being the sleeper picks. Out of those top 5, nd is clearly choice 1 and will get the chance to get picked if they want with pitt being the least likely choice but still possible. The middle 3 of missouri, rutgers, and cuse are pretty much subjective to which is best... maybe if cuse wins the hoop title that might give them an edge but being a smallish, compared to the other big 10 members, private school hurts.

(03-02-2010 08:20 AM)mlb Wrote:  If 3 BE football teams are poached, then the Big East football conference MUST go national. That means Boise State, TCU, Utah, and BYU are all candidates for expansion (football only, most likely). That would be the only hope to keep the BCS label.

No need to go this route, go back several years and neither TCU, Utah, nor Boise were considered 'big time' BCS busters; however, recently over the past 10 years, they have emerged due to a varity of circumstances. Giving the BCS label to schools like ECU and Memphis would probably help improve their football programs even more in terms of recruiting and getting better talent even more. It has helped Cincinnati and will more than likely work with adding those schools.

If 3 Big East schools go then the 5 remaining should add Temple and then form a 12 team conference with C-USA East.

(03-02-2010 09:47 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(03-02-2010 09:40 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(03-02-2010 09:36 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(03-02-2010 09:32 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  What would make you think that those three schools would be brought in immediately-if those three were brought in then football would be weakened dramatically and the BCS bid is unlikely to be AQ anymore.

Good point... let's instead go with Penn State, Maryland and Virginia Tech!! I'm sure they'll be more than eager to sign on.

there are other teams the BE can try and get just as the Big Ten is trying to get ND with 0 chance of it happening. You don't start at the bottom.

No, actually there aren't. Look at CUSA east, the MAC, the Sun Belt and perhaps a couple 1-AA schools and start-ups that could be candidates in 5 to 7 years. That's it: the pool of candidates. The BE can't lure anybody beyond that even WITH SU, Pitt and Rutgers. Trying to do so without them would be an exercise in futility and probably public embarrassment.

Ever heard of TCU or Navy? Either of those two is a better football choice than the ones you mentioned and that's without looking further into it.

These are exciting times for The Big East and college football fans. We are going to finally find out real fast if anyone in Providence has finally grown a set or if the leaders of The Big East are still "The ******* of BCS Football."
CJ

(03-02-2010 10:12 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  Ever heard of TCU or Navy? Either of those two is a better football choice than the ones you mentioned and that's without looking further into it.

Yeah, Navy has already passed on a chance at BE membership. I'm sure the absence of programs like SU, Pitt and Rutgers will make it much more likely they'd jump right in.

TCU might be a possibility - if they are available, which will be an open question. If they are interested in an Eastern/Southern league that has no guarantee of having an auto-bid. And if they bring anything to the league that we can't already get with a more sensible choice from a geographic/rivalry/travel standpoint, which is far from certain. TCU is not going to be the band-aid that saves the Big East's auto-bid. The MWC is still a non-AQ conference with TCU, BYU and Utah, and this is with TCU at the peak of their program's success. TCU will not be enough of a difference maker for the Big East, and they will likely have more attractive options in any event.

(03-02-2010 10:11 AM)MichaelSavage Wrote:  If 3 Big East schools go then the 5 remaining should add Temple and then form a 12 team conference with C-USA East.

I don't think they would go to 12 with the candidates available; more likely add Temple, Memphis and ECU immediately as all-sports members to maintain 8/16. Then the question becomes the long-term future of the league - I'd see additional movement and expansion down the road, with the BE keeping a close eye on start-ups that could be the next USF.

(03-02-2010 10:14 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  These are exciting times for The Big East and college football fans. We are going to finally find out real fast if anyone in Providence has finally grown a set or if the leaders of The Big East are still "The ******* of BCS Football."
CJ

what would you have the BE leadership do at this point? Nothing they could do would prevent anybody from leaving the BE if an invite is issued.

(03-02-2010 09:42 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(03-02-2010 09:40 AM)SO#1 Wrote:  

(03-02-2010 09:29 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(03-02-2010 09:13 AM)SO#1 Wrote:  Why, are they still insisting on listing Notre Dame?
Or Pittsburgh, when Penn State has the region covers.

I've said before that none of us really knows the value of any of the teams mentioned. Pitt's research dollars are much higher than the others and I'd suspect trying to get their hands on that money would have alot to do with it. None of us really even knows what the BTN is getting in PA or what kind of viewership Pitt gets nationally. Just speculation on these boards and elsewhere that they wouldn't bring enough value. Obviously they bring more than people think or they wouldn't still be so high on the list.

CIC existed to help their members, not the other way around. And Notre Dame, repeatedly turn down every invitation out there, publicly not in secret.

? Not following what you are trying to get across here

Your argument for why Pitt was listed “Pitt's research dollars are much higher than the others and I'd suspect trying to get their hands on that money would have a lot to do with it” When CIC is not thing more than community library, where members can access their pool of database that are share among member for better access research funds for themselves. BTN force residences of the region that their members are in to pay for accessing BTN programs. It got nothing to do with viewership Pitt gets nationally.

I don't think the question is whether or not the Big 10 takes a Big East team now or not, It's how many do they take?

If the answer is 1, no matter which 1 that is; then the BE will pick a team and keep on rolling in the current 8/8 format with its BCS autobid secure at least till the next contract. The BE will also be secure in the knowledge that the three BCS conferences that would take more teams from them, SEC, ACC, Big 10, will all be content with their 12 school formats for some time. Whether having all its neighbors at 12 puts pressure on the BE to go to 12 will be a matter for the BE alone to deal with.

But if the answer is 14, and the Big 10 comes for Pitt, Rutgers and Syracuse, or just two of those; then the flood gates are opened. The best case senario under those conditions is if the Big 10 was really being sincere when it said it didn't want to be underhanded like the ACC was, and goes to bat to get the other BCS conferences to honeymoon the BE during its recovery process. That's unlikely though at this point. That means that only 1 orignal BE football school (or 2) will be left in the BE football conference.

How does the BE work quickly enough to keep its Autobid? In this situation there are only two options. Split, go to 12 football schools and pray; or go to twelve and bring in 4 BB schools to form a super basketball conference with 24 teams. The import thing to remember is that the BE will only need to replace 3 football teams right away. It can then bring in a football and basketball school per year or every two years to get to a 24 team format. It will be unwieldy, but having a good protion of the east coast's basketball powers under one roof would make the BE, and its football, hard to leave out and ignore. If it doesn't workout, you have two ready made conferences and no animosity over a split later on.

My turn to weigh in. If the pool is SU, RU, Pitt, ND and Mizzou, then the B10 is only going to 12, i.e., I can't see the financial justification for the B10 going to 14 from this pool. The only possible impetus to go to 14 would to bring in UT and TAMU, with a 14th school to balance the boat.

Assuming the one school taken is a BE school, the burden to fill one spot should not be overwhelming. First, the conference would have seven schools remaining, so the core of the conference would be intact. Second, the best alternatives would not have been picked over by the B12. TCU or Memphis should both still be available, and either would be a reasonable choice to replace SU or RU, for instance.

This analysis also suggests that if the B10 did go to 14, it would only take a maximum of 1 BE school. TCU would likely be taken by the B12. Although Memphis would be on the list of potential B12 adds, it would probably still be available. UCF, Temple and others would definitely be available. Again, with only one spot to fill, adding one of these schools would not decimate the conference.

If you take out syracuse, rutgers, and uconn (maybe one to the big 10 and two to the acc or all 3 to the big 10?) i do wonder how the big east comes out...they could pop in 3 from temple, memphis, CF/Ecu and just move on like nothing happened-ha or maybe all 4 with st louis u and stick together as a 9/18 league. The hoops would still be solid. Or the big east could create 2 separate leagues with a 12 team football only league by taking over more cusa teams like houston and than maybe add tcu...i'm not sure if the football school's at that point would want to drop the catholic hoops and instead find a way to merger everybody in a bigger is better concept.

(03-02-2010 10:39 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  I don't think the question is whether or not the Big 10 takes a Big East team now or not, It's how many do they take?

If the answer is 1, no matter which 1 that is; then the BE will pick a team and keep on rolling in the current 8/8 format with its BCS autobid secure at least till the next contract. The BE will also be secure in the knowledge that the three BCS conferences that would take more teams from them, SEC, ACC, Big 10, will all be content with their 12 school formats for some time. Whether having all its neighbors at 12 puts pressure on the BE to go to 12 will be a matter for the BE alone to deal with.

But if the answer is 14, and the Big 10 comes for Pitt, Rutgers and Syracuse, or just two of those; then the flood gates are opened. The best case senario under those conditions is if the Big 10 was really being sincere when it said it didn't want to be underhanded like the ACC was, and goes to bat to get the other BCS conferences to honeymoon the BE during its recovery process. That's unlikely though at this point. That means that only 1 orignal BE football school (or 2) will be left in the BE football conference.

How does the BE work quickly enough to keep its Autobid? In this situation there are only two options. Split, go to 12 football schools and pray; or go to twelve and bring in 4 BB schools to form a super basketball conference with 24 teams. The import thing to remember is that the BE will only need to replace 3 football teams right away. It can then bring in a football and basketball school per year or every two years to get to a 24 team format. It will be unwieldy, but having a good protion of the east coast's basketball powers under one roof would make the BE, and its football, hard to leave out and ignore. If it doesn't workout, you have two ready made conferences and no animosity over a split later on.

Agreed - I suspect this is the way it will go down. If 3 are needed, they will plug in 3 right away out of necessity, and then see how things develop in the next few years.

(03-02-2010 10:39 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  I don't think the question is whether or not the Big 10 takes a Big East team now or not, It's how many do they take?

If the answer is 1, no matter which 1 that is; then the BE will pick a team and keep on rolling in the current 8/8 format with its BCS autobid secure at least till the next contract. The BE will also be secure in the knowledge that the three BCS conferences that would take more teams from them, SEC, ACC, Big 10, will all be content with their 12 school formats for some time. Whether having all its neighbors at 12 puts pressure on the BE to go to 12 will be a matter for the BE alone to deal with.

But if the answer is 14, and the Big 10 comes for Pitt, Rutgers and Syracuse, or just two of those; then the flood gates are opened. The best case senario under those conditions is if the Big 10 was really being sincere when it said it didn't want to be underhanded like the ACC was, and goes to bat to get the other BCS conferences to honeymoon the BE during its recovery process. That's unlikely though at this point. That means that only 1 orignal BE football school (or 2) will be left in the BE football conference.

How does the BE work quickly enough to keep its Autobid? In this situation there are only two options. Split, go to 12 football schools and pray; or go to twelve and bring in 4 BB schools to form a super basketball conference with 24 teams. The import thing to remember is that the BE will only need to replace 3 football teams right away. It can then bring in a football and basketball school per year or every two years to get to a 24 team format. It will be unwieldy, but having a good protion of the east coast's basketball powers under one roof would make the BE, and its football, hard to leave out and ignore. If it doesn't workout, you have two ready made conferences and no animosity over a split later on.

In my opinion, if we lose 2 teams a break up of of the Big East is inevitable. A "free for all" that would undoubtedly lead to other Big East football institutions looking for new homes. Whatever is left will head up a new 12 team all-sports eastern athletic conference.