Everyone may not agree with Elgin's opinions or whether he is bashing Coach Patton or not. From my perspective, I don't agree with his views regarding the basketball situation and how/why Coach Patton did what he did to start building the program or the simplistic views of how winning should automatically follow. It's much more complicated than what I am finding in the arguments. But, I'll read his opinions. I will say that if he went to Dekalb on Friday, Athens Ohio on Saturday, and Dekalb again on Sunday - then it is hard to argue that he is at least a big Huskie fan, if not a Coach Patton fan! How many others on this board made all 3 games this weekend? Maybe a few other fans like that but I'd be surprised if many. Impressive at least on that account.
And, I welcome intelligent discussions as well. Some threads tend to shy away from that. Unfortunately my footbll knowledge is probably more limited than many others and I don't know all the NIU football details to contribute, so I don't. But, I'm up for intelligent discussions on hoops any day! The comment “ALL GOOD COACHES WIN with the players they inherit" however is not a good one. I've been in situations where I took over school programs where there was no way we were going to win right away. We worked hard and tried to compete and get better. But, it took a few years to build the program and develop the younger players before we were really competitive and winning. And.... We did win... eventually.

man do times look SOOOO bright for our basketball team!

(11-23-2009 07:20 PM)Coach Storm Wrote:  Everyone may not agree with Elgin's opinions or whether he is bashing Coach Patton or not. From my perspective, I don't agree with his views regarding the basketball situation and how/why Coach Patton did what he did to start building the program or the simplistic views of how winning should automatically follow. It's much more complicated than what I am finding in the arguments. But, I'll read his opinions. I will say that if he went to Dekalb on Friday, Athens Ohio on Saturday, and Dekalb again on Sunday - then it is hard to argue that he is at least a big Huskie fan, if not a Coach Patton fan! How many others on this board made all 3 games this weekend? Maybe a few other fans like that but I'd be surprised if many. Impressive at least on that account.
And, I welcome intelligent discussions as well. Some threads tend to shy away from that. Unfortunately my footbll knowledge is probably more limited than many others and I don't know all the NIU football details to contribute, so I don't. But, I'm up for intelligent discussions on hoops any day! The comment “ALL GOOD COACHES WIN with the players they inherit" however is not a good one. I've been in situations where I took over school programs where there was no way we were going to win right away. We worked hard and tried to compete and get better. But, it took a few years to build the program and develop the younger players before we were really competitive and winning. And.... We did win... eventually.

Coach, what is your assessment on where Tyler stands within the program right now? Frankly I'm surprised that such a well-hyped kid has yet to have much of an impact, particularly in light of all the ugliness we have seen on the court so far this season. Thanks for the insight.

Saturday's loss was disappointing, but I am in shock that so many people here have gone from NIU going in the right direction to the wrong direction based on one game. NIU was ending a 4 game busy stretch, and I think we all forget just how young this team really is. If you have abandoned this team based on one dud, I certainly do not want you handling my stock portfolio (if I had one).

(11-23-2009 07:55 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  Saturday's loss was disappointing, but I am in shock that so many people here have gone from NIU going in the right direction to the wrong direction based on one game. NIU was ending a 4 game busy stretch, and I think we all forget just how young this team really is. If you have abandoned this team based on one dud, I certainly do not want you handling my stock portfolio (if I had one).

who said we are heading in the wrong direction? i think almost every comment would fall into the "damn we're not nearly as good as we thought we were", not, "holy crap our program is getting worse"

(11-23-2009 03:03 PM)cyberdawg Wrote:  How can a team stomp the snot outta SEMO last year in MO. and turn around and stink up the Convo as if it was a turkey/pig farm slaughterhouse?

There can be no deeper rock bottom, or can there?

You don't pay much attention at times, do you?
SEMO had 11 new players and only thre that ssaw any time vs NIU last year are on that team - and all of them were non-factors last year.

This year and last year are two different animals.

Let me see if I understand this discussion on bashing of coaches..…

I have never said anything negative about Coach Patton, his players or team… But, when I post, NIU made Coach Patton the highest paid MAC BB Coach when he took over the program and his two year record is 16-42 and finished last in the division. Do you think this is what President Peters expected? This IS BASHING………

When 84 states “Jerry Kill has done a miserable job, why would his performance not be bashed?” This is NOT BASHING……Interesting

This discussion is an excellent example of two coaches taking over a program and their philosophy regarding the players they inherited….The reason why good new coaches do not gut their roster of inherited players is that they can’t afford the three years of a poor record on their resume. A good example of this is when Coach Novak took over in 1996 he like Patton got rid of many players. His record for the first three years was 3-30. If you take a look at all the coaches that took over a program from a fired or resigned coach when Coach Kill and Coach Patton was hired, you will see that most (in Patton's case) had a better record than the former coach and many won with the players they inherited. Statistics show that the odds of turning around a program faster are far greater with inherited players instead of gutting the team.....

I think if you look at the coaching results from the Administration point of view, they are probably very satisfied with Coach Kill and are praying that Coach Patton wins 15 games this year……

As a long time BB and FB season ticket holder I sincerely hope Coach Patton does turn around this Program. Coach Kill already has…..


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whether or not both basketball and football finish off with strong seasons.....they are both programs headed in the right way and should be very good in the MAC in upcoming years.

Cheers to you Elgin. That is impressive and I wish we had more like you on this board and in the stands.

Elgin, if those players were worth a damn then yes, you keep them around. Patton had guys like Zach Pancrantz around. What is the point of keep those guys around? He could go .500 instead of what he did? Who cares? There's no point in that. You can either play out the string with that trash and win a few games here and there, or you can start over completely so you can be successful in the long run. I'll take that strategy any day of the week.

I was looking back at the posts from Elgin (where he often and consistently has nothing positive to say about the Patton regime, but I came across this gem from none other then myself, seemed appropiate for the current MaddDawgz insanity).

I apparently had the exact same thing to say about Mike DiNunno to MaddDawgz then as I do now..

Post from 3/9/09

Quote:MD you are such an idiot, it's unreal. Just because people say a negative thing about someone or NIU does not mean they dislike NIU or have something against them or think Mike DiNunno is a bad basketball player. The kid had a lot of bad games, made a lot mistakes, turned the ball over too much, didn't make enough free throws and could have played a lot better this year. At the same time I believe he's a very good basketball player and will only get better.

For some reason you find it hard to understand that people can think positively about something and also see the negatives.

I'd even go so far as to say the only reason half the people here say anything negative about a guy like Mike DiNunno or NIU in general, is because you go so overboard with your NIU homer loving that people have to correct you because it's ridiculous. Just because a guy like Cybes can see we need to improve, or someone like NIJ can see the limitations of Mike DiNunno does not mean they dislike NIU or DiNunno. If you would not make such ridiculous claims all the time about NIU, the MAC and guys like Mike DiNunno, no one here would have to bring you back down to earth with reality which you take as NIU bashing. It's your red and black goggles that you never take off that is disliked by the majority of us, not Mike DiNunno or NIU.

Apparently not much has changed in 6 months for Mike DiNunno or MaddDawgz. MaddDawgz, if you could ever learn that people can enjoy something but also point out the negatives, you'd be a lot better off. People here don't hope any players at NIU fail. No one here dislikes Me'Co Brown, we just think Chad Spann is better at football. No one here dislikes Mike DiNunno, we just can't stand your incessant one sided hype. You are the problem, and people like you, who so blindly support something that they can't see the negatives, not a good kid like Mike DiNunno. We wouldn't spend so much time on this board, or at games, or on season tickets, or drive back to DeKalb all the time if we didn't support NIU and the players.

Just because something is good, does not mean it can't be better, and just because you support something doesn't mean you can't point out it's flaws.

Your inability to see anything for what it is, but only as either the best thing ever, or the worst thing ever makes your opinion completely useless. Some guys are just good, or just average. Mike DiNunno is a combo guard with good potential, nothing more right now. A guy who works very hard, is quick and can get very hot at the three point line, but makes a ton of mistakes at this point in his playing career. No one gives a damn about him being over-confident. They just want him to take better shots and make better passes and play under control.

Elgin, did you really think pankrantz and paradise could win in the MAC? do you not see the style of basketball patton is getting these kids to play? could zach possibly pressure the ball and get out and run on offense? who do you think he "ran off" that could have helped NIU win two years ago?????

It is obvious 84, by your continued bashing of Coach Kill and the FB Program that you do not think Coach Kill is doing a good job….. He only took over a 2-10 program turned it around to 7-4 and most likely will be in a bowl for the second straight year……On the other hand you appear to be very satisfied with Coach Patton’s two year record of 16-42…..This is your opinion……

It seems that your major disappointment with FB is the rushing game. If you look at the rushing stats this year verses lat year you will see there a great improvement. Last year our top rusher was Harnish (QB) with about 550 yards. This year Brown and Spann (RBs) combined for over 1500 yards. NIU has total of 2300 yards rushing compared to 1150 for our opponents….

You and others bring up a good point about DiNunno and the point guard position. I thought our number one recruiting priority last year should have been to recruit a PG. I think we should have gone after D.J. Cooper, Sun Times Player of the year and PG from Seton Academy. Ohio came into our back yard and recruited him and Cooper is now doing a good job at Ohio. Instead, we recruited Tony Nixon also from Seton. I think Nixon has the potential of being a good player for us but does little to help our PG problem. Our top recruit for next year is a power forward from Tennessee. It is obvious that Coach Patton is satisfied with our current players at the PG position…..This is his decision…..

Athletic Message Boards are the medium for disagreeing with coach’s philosophies, decisions and with others that post their opinions on various subjects……

Do you have the right to say quote “Jerry Kill has done a miserable job, why would his performance not be bashed?” and continue to bash DiNunno …….Absolutely…..

Do I have the right to disagree and point out those that continue to bash NIU Coaches, Programs and Players…..Absolutely……

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(11-24-2009 02:44 PM)ELGIN HUSKIE Wrote:  It is obvious 84, by your continued bashing of Coach Kill and the FB Program that you do not think Coach Kill is doing a good job….. He only took over a 2-10 program turned it around to 7-4 and most likely will be in a bowl for the second straight year……On the other hand you appear to be very satisfied with Coach Patton’s two year record of 16-42…..This is your opinion……

It seems that your major disappointment with FB is the rushing game. If you look at the rushing stats this year verses lat year you will see there a great improvement. Last year our top rusher was Harnish (QB) with about 550 yards. This year Brown and Spann (RBs) combined for over 1500 yards. NIU has total of 2300 yards rushing compared to 1150 for our opponents….

You make some of the most elementary, and just dumb, arguments ever. Kill took a program that was injury plagued the year before and went 6-7 with Novak's recruits. He also made countless terrible coaching decisions in the process. This year we will likely finish 7-6 or 8-5, and have arguably left wins on the field. I'd suggest that you take a look at the clock management, personnel, and play calling decisions that are part of the coaching job and tell me how Kill has done in those categories.

Using the total rushing stat to justify the running back situation is just ridiculous. If Spann had received the bulk of the carries, we may have 3000 yards rushing and more importantly, another 2 wins. Keep in mind there is a recurring theme of NIU losing when Me'co is getting 3x as many carries as Spann. Obviously this is all hypothetical but the point is that Spann is the better RB and Kill has some sort of fascination with Me'co, even while Me'co wasn't 100%.

Like I said before, if Patton doesn't lower DiNunno's playing time to ~15 minutes or so, I'll have some problems with him as well. Until then, at least the program has shown progress and potential from the Judson era.

Cagy, in the past I thought you had some good posts on BB Analysis. I am disappointed to see you haven’t done any lately…..

I know we have had this discussion several times in the past about Pancratz and the players that Coach Patton inherited and got rid of……It is a little difficult to try to analyze two years later what should have, could have or did not happen with players and a team….

This discussion was about the coaching philosophy of a new coach regarding the players they inherit. When Coach Patton was hired over Billy Taylor, it was mainly because of his IBM type presentation on the NIU individual players and program. As a long time successful head coach, I think Coach Patton knew exactly about what he was getting into and what his plan would be. Coach Patton took over in April 2007 and nine players that he inherited were gone within the first year. Was this in his presentation? I don't think so. Whether he would have won more game with those players, or not, we will never know……I thought there was no class in the taking away scholarships from fifth year seniors Jarvis Nichols (Glenbard North) and Zach Pancratz (Schaumburg). Pancratz was the leading returning scorer, three point shooter and both players would have given the team senior leadership and experience, something the team lacked…. I believe the Pancratz scholarship was given to a 5”5” 135 lb. guard. If I was the father of a player that was being recruited by college and I found out that the head coach took scholarships from two fifth year seniors that performed well for the team and forced them to transfer to another school to play and get their degree? I would not send him there. I am sure that Suburban HS Coaches have a similar feeling as we have not had one recruit from the suburbs in three full recruiting classes. Except for Nichols and Pancratz, I have no problem with the decisions that Coach Patton made reguarding the players. This was his decision but the 16-42 record is the result. There is nothing we can do about this or the record......It is over…..

I think the overall talent of the team is the best we have seen since Judson won the MAC West (Outright) in 2005-06. I believe that Coach Patton’s biggest challenge will be to get all the players to play as a team and I hope he can turn around the program......


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