I don't get what you are talking about in "building a camel."

I will say that if you build a facility that can only be used 30 times a year, you are building a "white elephant."

Just as long as the predominant colors inside this mythical joint venture arena is blue and gold and not maroon and gold.

Tiger, just because you draw around 6,000 for your home games doesn't mean that's the only people who cared about football at ETSU. The bottom line is if you produce a consistent winner people will come, and ETSU didn't do that in football, due in large part, at least the last few years to under funding the program. People talk about the great years under Coach Bell and Coach Cavan. But in 7 seasons Coach Bell had just 2 winning seasons, and in 5 seasons Coach Cavan had just 2 winning season, one of them being just a game over .500. I submit that as in any other sport, if you put a consistent winner on the field, people will come. And while there is are a great number of people in this area that to my frustration are indifferent to ETSU having football or not, just because you could care less, doesn't mean you should sell short the fact that there are a large number of people who would like football back at ETSU. If you don't want it fine, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but don't assume that just because it's how you feel, that everyone else should feel the same way.

No Fan! You're wrong!

Only 60,000 people care about the Steelers, too!

(10-21-2009 06:58 AM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  I don't get what you are talking about in "building a camel."

I will say that if you build a facility that can only be used 30 times a year, you are building a "white elephant."

I was referring to an earlier post:

(10-03-2009 07:55 PM)NorthEastTennesseeTiger Wrote:  

(10-03-2009 11:19 AM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  

(10-02-2009 02:28 PM)NorthEastTennesseeTiger Wrote:  

(10-01-2009 03:11 PM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  

(09-30-2009 09:08 PM)NorthEastTennesseeTiger Wrote:  Have you ever attended a regular season college basketball game in a real arena?

You're kidding- right?

No I'm not, I'm drawing a conclusion based on your comments that ETSU basketball game viewing is OK in the dome. Holding basketball games in the dome is embarasing, I was embarased to take someone to games who actually had been to a real arena. Basketball games in the dome BLOW period.

Well, let's see here-

There's Appalachian State, there's Radford, there's three different Pitt facilities (Civic/Mellon Arena, Fitzgerald Field House, Pederson Events Center), there's Duquesne, there's Robert Morris, and for that matter I've even seen the Bucs play at Freedom Hall (against Lees-McRae in '96).

For various other events, I've also been to Marshall, Tennessee (both old and new facilities), Madison Square Garden, and a host of others that I won't rattle my brain trying to remember right now.

I've also seen pro basketball played at both Richfield and the Gund Arena.

The Pederson Events Center is the reason why Pitt has had a basketball resurgence. It has been hailed as one of the nicest basketball facilities in America.

Prior to its construction, Pitt played at the Fitzgerald Field House.

And folks, Memorial Center is and was a nicer facility than the Fitzgerald Field House ever was.

You really don't know my background, do you?

No, and why does that matter.

I will say you may, have been in more basketball arenas than I? Not wanting to change the topic, because it isn't relevant to this discussion. But, ..... I would bet that unless you work football for ESPN, I have been in more football stadiums than most anyone in East TN.

(10-01-2009 03:11 PM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  I am not embarassed by Memorial Center.

I AM embarassed that I have long heard people say "I'd rather ETSU play in Brooks Gym." Like any recruit would want to play in THAT place!

I AM embarassed by the high school mentality of the area that will say Viking Hall is this spectacular facility but Memorial Center was not prior to its semi-destruction by the administration. Viking Hall has a STAGE AT ONE END for crying out loud! It's Daniel Boone with more seats!

You have to ask yourself why when you hear people say, "I'd rather ETSU play in Brooks Gym", or why people look at Viking Hall positively, that you don't see why they don't like the dome.

I almost would rather see a game it Brooks Gym, I almost would rather see a game in DB's Gym, at least you feel like you are in the same county.

The dome is like the old joke regarding a horse designed by a committe is a camel. I've always thought of it like that. Sure you want a horse for the horse race, but if you don't have anything else you could use a camel. Sure the dome has four legs, can run and one can ride it, but it will never win a horse race. The dome is a camel, we need a horse.

(10-21-2009 02:04 PM)Just A Fan Wrote:  Tiger, just because you draw around 6,000 for your home games doesn't mean that's the only people who cared about football at ETSU. The bottom line is if you produce a consistent winner people will come, and ETSU didn't do that in football, due in large part, at least the last few years to under funding the program. People talk about the great years under Coach Bell and Coach Cavan. But in 7 seasons Coach Bell had just 2 winning seasons, and in 5 seasons Coach Cavan had just 2 winning season, one of them being just a game over .500. I submit that as in any other sport, if you put a consistent winner on the field, people will come. And while there is are a great number of people in this area that to my frustration are indifferent to ETSU having football or not, just because you could care less, doesn't mean you should sell short the fact that there are a large number of people who would like football back at ETSU. If you don't want it fine, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but don't assume that just because it's how you feel, that everyone else should feel the same way.

But you see that is the rub......I don't think ETSU will EVER (in my lifetime) be able to draw enough attendance to fund a team that will ever win. It will always have low attendance, be underfunded and drain all the other available athletic dollars. Now if the basketball program was generating an excess amount of dollars (couple of mil), then you may be able to prop the football program up for maybe 10 years to build a following....maybe. Outside of Bill Gates giving the University a call and donating about 2 million a year for at least 10 years ETSU football will never be able to pull enough fans in the area away from UT football. I'm not even sure that would do it. Having an underfunded, underattended, losing football team is just going to pretty much eliminate the basketball program from being sucessful enough to prop up football anytime soon.

Fans in seats alone will never fund a football program regardless of size at ETSU. The money has to come from someplace else whether it be private donations, cooperate donations, student athletics fee's. And if done right, all sports at ETSU can be fully funded. The problem is Dr. Stanton who has proven to be able to raise money for any project he gets behind, won't go out and push for athletic donations, and there is a hands off list for those who's job is is to raise money to support the athletic teams, scholarships for athletes, and advertising on the network.

(10-22-2009 01:47 PM)Just A Fan Wrote:  Fans in seats alone will never fund a football program regardless of size at ETSU. The money has to come from someplace else whether it be private donations, cooperate donations, student athletics fee's. And if done right, all sports at ETSU can be fully funded. The problem is Dr. Stanton who has proven to be able to raise money for any project he gets behind, won't go out and push for athletic donations, and there is a hands off list for those who's job is is to raise money to support the athletic teams, scholarships for athletes, and advertising on the network.

We agree that seats alone will never fund football. So lets talk private donations, where is it going to come from? Eastman, doubtful that you will ever get any significant amount from them. King Pharm? On a huge scale what else is there? You have some boss hogs around, but I doubt you will get enough long term to do it. One million was the previous loss. I think you would need at least 2 million to properly fund it. The one million loss level was an underfunded level, and will never produce anything. People and companies do not donate to something that doesn't have comunity exposure and 6,000 seats 5 times a year isn't it.

I know you will probably throw out the Pharm school as an example of funding something. That isn't a good example, local pharmacy's are desperate for pharmacists. They are paying thru the nose for them right now. Some Pharms are almost making what primary care docs are now. I hold that when/if salaries start to drop the Pharm school will start having funding issues.

You want six thousand seats? Okay! While we are at it....let's change our name back to ETSC! Right on! Right on!

If we are only gonna build a 6,000 seat place, there is no reason to build a new arena. That's what we have right now.

We agree that seats alone will never fund football. So lets talk private donations, where is it going to come from? Eastman, doubtful that you will ever get any significant amount from them. King Pharm? On a huge scale what else is there? You have some boss hogs around, but I doubt you will get enough long term to do it. One million was the previous loss. I think you would need at least 2 million to properly fund it. The one million loss level was an underfunded level, and will never produce anything. Peopl. e and companies do not donate to something that doesn't have comunity exposure and 6,000 seats 5 times a year isn't it.

I know you will probably throw out the Pharm school as an example of funding something. That isn't a good example, local pharmacy's are desperate for pharmacists. They are paying thru the nose for them right now. Some Pharms are almost making what primary care docs are now. I hold that when/if salaries start to drop the Pharm school will start having funding issues.
[/quote]

You assume funding in the community for athletics isn't available. I submit that there has never been a legitimate effort to promote it and raise money. When ETSU was playing football in the So Con fund raising and promoting of the athletic programs was at least 10 years behind their peer institutions. That's why all athletics were underfunded, and why football was losing money. And that was before the current administration was in power. You say it can't be done, I say it's never been done the right way, and if it is, it can and will be successful. Saying it can't be done so why try isn't what this program needs. Positive thinking and forward thinking will not only give us a chance of returning football to ETSU but help in the growth and support of all the sports on campus!

I plan on winning the lottery so once I do, I'll donate some money

(10-21-2009 11:05 PM)NorthEastTennesseeTiger Wrote:  

(10-21-2009 02:04 PM)Just A Fan Wrote:  Tiger, just because you draw around 6,000 for your home games doesn't mean that's the only people who cared about football at ETSU. The bottom line is if you produce a consistent winner people will come, and ETSU didn't do that in football, due in large part, at least the last few years to under funding the program. People talk about the great years under Coach Bell and Coach Cavan. But in 7 seasons Coach Bell had just 2 winning seasons, and in 5 seasons Coach Cavan had just 2 winning season, one of them being just a game over .500. I submit that as in any other sport, if you put a consistent winner on the field, people will come. And while there is are a great number of people in this area that to my frustration are indifferent to ETSU having football or not, just because you could care less, doesn't mean you should sell short the fact that there are a large number of people who would like football back at ETSU. If you don't want it fine, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but don't assume that just because it's how you feel, that everyone else should feel the same way.

But you see that is the rub......I don't think ETSU will EVER (in my lifetime) be able to draw enough attendance to fund a team that will ever win. It will always have low attendance, be underfunded and drain all the other available athletic dollars. Now if the basketball program was generating an excess amount of dollars (couple of mil), then you may be able to prop the football program up for maybe 10 years to build a following....maybe. Outside of Bill Gates giving the University a call and donating about 2 million a year for at least 10 years ETSU football will never be able to pull enough fans in the area away from UT football. I'm not even sure that would do it. Having an underfunded, underattended, losing football team is just going to pretty much eliminate the basketball program from being sucessful enough to prop up football anytime soon.

Here's why, contrary to popular belief, I am a cockeyed optimist.

I did grow up with Chuck Tanner, you know.

I actually think ETSU CAN draw that kind of fan support. And I know the area can draw that for real concerts, if for no other reason than you can attract people from all over the region if you have a good enough show.

It has to be done in a different way than currently done. Here's what you have to do-

A- You have to assert yourself as "THE HOMETOWN TEAM!" In order to do this, you literally have to identify UT as a rival and identify them as KNOXVILLE and yourself as TRICITIES.

I actually think this can be done in the current media environment because what you would do would be tick off the local talk show hosts. But their promotion of ETSU is currently minimal and, heck, if David Mullins was a competent AD he wouldn't go on the Morning Monster and talk about how he was listening to the Tennessee football game.

Can you imagine the AD of any other university talk about how he was trying to pick up another, local college's broadcast to listen to the game as a fan? Especially when that other college is often a common opponent of ETSU?

Anyway, can you imagine the whining WXSM, let alone Scott Gray, would do if ETSU did my promotion of presenting a piece of UT apparel to an ETSU game and getting a new ETSU hat, shirt, etc.

Negative PR? Perhaps, but what it would do is create a buzz and get people to think. I'm a believer that all publicity for a sports franchise is positive publicity, so a stunt like this will make waves.

B- As I have always said, what else is there to do around here but watch ETSU basketball?

C- A larger arena will attract a larger conference. A larger conference will attract more fans.

(10-23-2009 08:36 AM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  [quote='NorthEastTennesseeTiger' pid='4738742' dateline='1256184342']
[quote='Just A Fan' pid='4737132' dateline='1256151871']
Here's what you have to do-

A- You have to assert yourself as "THE HOMETOWN TEAM!" In order to do this, you literally have to identify UT as a rival and identify them as KNOXVILLE and yourself as TRICITIES.

I actually think this can be done in the current media environment because what you would do would be tick off the local talk show hosts. But their promotion of ETSU is currently minimal and, heck, if David Mullins was a competent AD he wouldn't go on the Morning Monster and talk about how he was listening to the Tennessee football game.

Can you imagine the AD of any other university talk about how he was trying to pick up another, local college's broadcast to listen to the game as a fan? Especially when that other college is often a common opponent of ETSU?

Anyway, can you imagine the whining WXSM, let alone Scott Gray, would do if ETSU did my promotion of presenting a piece of UT apparel to an ETSU game and getting a new ETSU hat, shirt, etc.

Negative PR? Perhaps, but what it would do is create a buzz and get people to think. I'm a believer that all publicity for a sports franchise is positive publicity, so a stunt like this will make waves.

I like this idea.

Well, so do they.

But if they want to use it, they'd better compensate me.

I'm sick of promoting the movement to bring back football, saving Ed DeChellis' reputation, and through it all constantly promoting ETSU sports and giving them the publicity they deserve and not only not being appriciated, but having people lie in attempts to destroy me.

(10-23-2009 08:36 AM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  

(10-21-2009 11:05 PM)NorthEastTennesseeTiger Wrote:  

(10-21-2009 02:04 PM)Just A Fan Wrote:  Tiger, just because you draw around 6,000 for your home games doesn't mean that's the only people who cared about football at ETSU. The bottom line is if you produce a consistent winner people will come, and ETSU didn't do that in football, due in large part, at least the last few years to under funding the program. People talk about the great years under Coach Bell and Coach Cavan. But in 7 seasons Coach Bell had just 2 winning seasons, and in 5 seasons Coach Cavan had just 2 winning season, one of them being just a game over .500. I submit that as in any other sport, if you put a consistent winner on the field, people will come. And while there is are a great number of people in this area that to my frustration are indifferent to ETSU having football or not, just because you could care less, doesn't mean you should sell short the fact that there are a large number of people who would like football back at ETSU. If you don't want it fine, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but don't assume that just because it's how you feel, that everyone else should feel the same way.

But you see that is the rub......I don't think ETSU will EVER (in my lifetime) be able to draw enough attendance to fund a team that will ever win. It will always have low attendance, be underfunded and drain all the other available athletic dollars. Now if the basketball program was generating an excess amount of dollars (couple of mil), then you may be able to prop the football program up for maybe 10 years to build a following....maybe. Outside of Bill Gates giving the University a call and donating about 2 million a year for at least 10 years ETSU football will never be able to pull enough fans in the area away from UT football. I'm not even sure that would do it. Having an underfunded, underattended, losing football team is just going to pretty much eliminate the basketball program from being sucessful enough to prop up football anytime soon.

Here's why, contrary to popular belief, I am a cockeyed optimist.

Pitt, I agree absolutely. 15-20 years ago VaTech was a nobody from the stand point of athletics. In order to become a somebody, administrators and alumni have to decide that is what they want and pursue it.

Right on! Right on!

(10-23-2009 12:56 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  

(10-23-2009 08:36 AM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  

(10-21-2009 11:05 PM)NorthEastTennesseeTiger Wrote:  

(10-21-2009 02:04 PM)Just A Fan Wrote:  Tiger, just because you draw around 6,000 for your home games doesn't mean that's the only people who cared about football at ETSU. The bottom line is if you produce a consistent winner people will come, and ETSU didn't do that in football, due in large part, at least the last few years to under funding the program. People talk about the great years under Coach Bell and Coach Cavan. But in 7 seasons Coach Bell had just 2 winning seasons, and in 5 seasons Coach Cavan had just 2 winning season, one of them being just a game over .500. I submit that as in any other sport, if you put a consistent winner on the field, people will come. And while there is are a great number of people in this area that to my frustration are indifferent to ETSU having football or not, just because you could care less, doesn't mean you should sell short the fact that there are a large number of people who would like football back at ETSU. If you don't want it fine, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but don't assume that just because it's how you feel, that everyone else should feel the same way.

But you see that is the rub......I don't think ETSU will EVER (in my lifetime) be able to draw enough attendance to fund a team that will ever win. It will always have low attendance, be underfunded and drain all the other available athletic dollars. Now if the basketball program was generating an excess amount of dollars (couple of mil), then you may be able to prop the football program up for maybe 10 years to build a following....maybe. Outside of Bill Gates giving the University a call and donating about 2 million a year for at least 10 years ETSU football will never be able to pull enough fans in the area away from UT football. I'm not even sure that would do it. Having an underfunded, underattended, losing football team is just going to pretty much eliminate the basketball program from being sucessful enough to prop up football anytime soon.

Here's why, contrary to popular belief, I am a cockeyed optimist.

Pitt, I agree absolutely. 15-20 years ago VaTech was a nobody from the stand point of athletics. In order to become a somebody, administrators and alumni have to decide that is what they want and pursue it.

VaTech always had money and facilities. The first time I went there in the early 80s I was shocked at how nice their campus was.

Couple of other things-

A- Glad to see Matt Wiljelm in that video. He's the sort of face the movement needs. Only knock would be that he's an ex-football player, which could lead the lay person to believe the cause is only the plaything of those with self-interests.

B- Though it's common for news reporters to take stories like these, I would have loved to have seen a sports reporter give that report. It wasn't a bad report, mind you, but the message was for sports fans. In my opinion this was a sports story and should be reported with sports so the target audience is hit.

C- Woulda been nice to see someone from ETSU comment on this event. Either to make them look like sour pusses or to get them on the record saying they aren't opposed to the return of the sport.

Then again, for all I know the people at WJHL tried and ETSU didn't comment.

I think we need former football players leading this Pitt. Matt is a very respected person within the ETSU community, so I think it's great to have him at the forefront. It would be nice if we could get Gerald Sensabaugh or Cecil Moore in this fight as well. And what about Todd Wells?