(09-17-2009 03:58 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  

(09-17-2009 12:14 PM)buckybuck Wrote:  took all of about two minutes to find this on the ETSU foundation website. The Foundation is audited by outside entities annually and has rigorous reporting requirements.

"East Tennessee State University received $13.2 million in private annual giving during 2007-2008 from alumni and friends. This includes $8.4 million contributed to the ETSU Foundation, which includes $2 million in planned gifts and $4.8 million from private gifts and contracts by the university faculty and staff. Thanks to our alumni, friends, public-private partnerships, and our faculty and staff, who continue to enrich the “Margin of Excellence,” ETSU is able to benefit our students and the people of our region through quality teaching, research, and service.


The value of the university’s and Foundation’s 386 endowments, including the Chairs of Excellence, decreased from $77.3 million to $75 million for a total decrease of $2.3 million. This is a decrease of over 2 percent in the value of endowments for the year. These endowments have increased $37.7 million in the past five years. This is a 64.9 percent increase in endowments within this five-year period. The Foundation’s endowments, including the Chairs of Excellence, decreased from $77.2 million to $75 million for a total decrease of $2.2 million, resulting in a decrease of 3 percent for 2007-2008. This is a 77 percent increase in the Foundation’s endowments within this five-year period. These endowments support the Foundation’s and the University’s fundraising mission to support scholarships and educational enhancements for our students, faculty and staff."

ETSU seems to be doing just fine on the giving front without football. Judging from enrollment figures we seem to be doing just fine on the enrollment front without football. I'm not seeing any good reason to bring it back.

Doing fine? By Tennesse standards maybe.

UVa-Wise is approximately 1/7th the size of ETSU, and has been in existance for only half as long. The Wise endowment is $40 million, the ETSU endowment is only $73 million (depending on the source).

Let's common size those numbers. The Wise endowment is $20,000 per current student, the ETSU endowment is $4,866 per current student.

I'd call that somewhat alarming.

And football would have increased this endowment by??

If ETSU were a private company, the heads of it would be at the graybar with the heads of Enron, MCI Worldcom and Bernie Madoff, or atleast they'd be in that cellblock.

31- Generally you don't invest in a company that's going out of business.

I am, however, happy to hear that it raised $100,000. We were told the sport raised $129,000 for the last five years.

So, I can only wonder why during those five years, there wasn't a public "WE ONLY RAISED $X! If you want to have a football program around here, we need to raise more money."

As it was, there was one announcement in 1998 and not much else.

It also calls into question ETSU athletic fundraising processes when a golf team can raise more or gets more than a sport that can draw a fan base.

(09-18-2009 09:16 AM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  31- Generally you don't invest in a company that's going out of business.

I am, however, happy to hear that it raised $100,000. We were told the sport raised $129,000 for the last five years.

So, I can only wonder why during those five years, there wasn't a public "WE ONLY RAISED $X! If you want to have a football program around here, we need to raise more money."

As it was, there was one announcement in 1998 and not much else.

It also calls into question ETSU athletic fundraising processes when a golf team can raise more or gets more than a sport that can draw a fan base.

It never drew a fan base, at least not one remotely close to paying for it's cost.

Neither do ANY OTHER SPORTS AT ETSU!!!!!

There are only about 20-30 athletic programs in the entire country that make money in the NCAA.

So if you really want to argue the point, the only way ETSU athletics ever WILL make money is if they make a bold try to improve in the likes of my fantasy scenario of ETSU football playing at BMS.

The arguements given by the administration simply don't wash.

It is funny that during those last years of football I never heard anyone associated with the University ask specifically for football or set up a fund for football. I am an alumnus and buy season tickets, donate and get all the updates imaginable and I was never ever asked to donate money for football. It is just like it is now as the current leaders will not in any way allow fund raising for football. Very strange people.

Not strange people, complete dumbasses. We've argued back and forth and back and forth on the topics of football and intercollegiate spending/fundraising, and the bottom line is the schools that have football and recognize what it brings to the table both on and off the field make sure that they are successful. Plus, the arguments don't hold water when so many different schools are adding programs, other schools that have dropped are considering adding it back, and non-scholarship programs are putting in scholarships. I mean seriously, the tell tale sign should have been when FREAKING CAMPBELL started football and decided to move to the Big South.
One last thing, if under your philosophy that we should drop sports that aren't drawing fans, then you should forget ALL WOMEN'S SPORTS at ETSU, baseball, commie kickball, and track. We'd be playing men's basketball, that's it.

(09-18-2009 07:03 AM)buckybuck Wrote:  

(09-17-2009 03:58 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  

(09-17-2009 12:14 PM)buckybuck Wrote:  took all of about two minutes to find this on the ETSU foundation website. The Foundation is audited by outside entities annually and has rigorous reporting requirements.

"East Tennessee State University received $13.2 million in private annual giving during 2007-2008 from alumni and friends. This includes $8.4 million contributed to the ETSU Foundation, which includes $2 million in planned gifts and $4.8 million from private gifts and contracts by the university faculty and staff. Thanks to our alumni, friends, public-private partnerships, and our faculty and staff, who continue to enrich the “Margin of Excellence,” ETSU is able to benefit our students and the people of our region through quality teaching, research, and service.


The value of the university’s and Foundation’s 386 endowments, including the Chairs of Excellence, decreased from $77.3 million to $75 million for a total decrease of $2.3 million. This is a decrease of over 2 percent in the value of endowments for the year. These endowments have increased $37.7 million in the past five years. This is a 64.9 percent increase in endowments within this five-year period. The Foundation’s endowments, including the Chairs of Excellence, decreased from $77.2 million to $75 million for a total decrease of $2.2 million, resulting in a decrease of 3 percent for 2007-2008. This is a 77 percent increase in the Foundation’s endowments within this five-year period. These endowments support the Foundation’s and the University’s fundraising mission to support scholarships and educational enhancements for our students, faculty and staff."

ETSU seems to be doing just fine on the giving front without football. Judging from enrollment figures we seem to be doing just fine on the enrollment front without football. I'm not seeing any good reason to bring it back.

Doing fine? By Tennesse standards maybe.

UVa-Wise is approximately 1/7th the size of ETSU, and has been in existance for only half as long. The Wise endowment is $40 million, the ETSU endowment is only $73 million (depending on the source).

Let's common size those numbers. The Wise endowment is $20,000 per current student, the ETSU endowment is $4,866 per current student.

I'd call that somewhat alarming.

And football would have increased this endowment by??

The number is unknown and unknowable.

(09-18-2009 05:39 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  

(09-18-2009 07:03 AM)buckybuck Wrote:  

(09-17-2009 03:58 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  

(09-17-2009 12:14 PM)buckybuck Wrote:  took all of about two minutes to find this on the ETSU foundation website. The Foundation is audited by outside entities annually and has rigorous reporting requirements.

"East Tennessee State University received $13.2 million in private annual giving during 2007-2008 from alumni and friends. This includes $8.4 million contributed to the ETSU Foundation, which includes $2 million in planned gifts and $4.8 million from private gifts and contracts by the university faculty and staff. Thanks to our alumni, friends, public-private partnerships, and our faculty and staff, who continue to enrich the “Margin of Excellence,” ETSU is able to benefit our students and the people of our region through quality teaching, research, and service.


The value of the university’s and Foundation’s 386 endowments, including the Chairs of Excellence, decreased from $77.3 million to $75 million for a total decrease of $2.3 million. This is a decrease of over 2 percent in the value of endowments for the year. These endowments have increased $37.7 million in the past five years. This is a 64.9 percent increase in endowments within this five-year period. The Foundation’s endowments, including the Chairs of Excellence, decreased from $77.2 million to $75 million for a total decrease of $2.2 million, resulting in a decrease of 3 percent for 2007-2008. This is a 77 percent increase in the Foundation’s endowments within this five-year period. These endowments support the Foundation’s and the University’s fundraising mission to support scholarships and educational enhancements for our students, faculty and staff."

ETSU seems to be doing just fine on the giving front without football. Judging from enrollment figures we seem to be doing just fine on the enrollment front without football. I'm not seeing any good reason to bring it back.

Doing fine? By Tennesse standards maybe.

UVa-Wise is approximately 1/7th the size of ETSU, and has been in existance for only half as long. The Wise endowment is $40 million, the ETSU endowment is only $73 million (depending on the source).

Let's common size those numbers. The Wise endowment is $20,000 per current student, the ETSU endowment is $4,866 per current student.

I'd call that somewhat alarming.

And football would have increased this endowment by??

The number is unknown and unknowable.

I would argue that it would reduce the endowment, because since the program was a money pit, it would take money away not add to. Maybe that is why the endowment is so low, having to prop up football for so long and all.

(09-18-2009 05:40 AM)KingsportBucsFan31 Wrote:  By the way in football's last year - donations that were sport specific totaled 100,000 to football. Women's volleyball the same year brought in 300,000

Just an interesting fact.

Are you telling me that people actually donated $300,000 to women's volleyball at ETSU???? Are you joking? That is absolutely absurd and I refuse to believe it until you have some facts. Show me where you got it and I will gladly shut up. Until then, stop the high-school B-S'ing game, it's getting ridiculous.

I very rarely post, but after reading all this over the last few days, I'd like to make a few points:

1. Those of you who feel that we should not bring back football because it won't make money are not being realistic. Only a very few collegiate programs actally make money. The reasons for bringing back football were actually best expressed by none other than our esteemed atheletic director in the appeal he wrote that was referenced on this board about a month ago. I believe it can still be accessed via etsubucs.com. All of his points regarding alumni participation and pride, ties between the university and the tri-cities community, name recognition on a broader scale, etc. were right on target. Unfortunately, while he could "talk the talk", he didn't "walk the walk".
2. The administration's taking the football vote to the current students was either naive or disingenuous. As noted on this board on numerous occaisions, college football at any level is not, and has never been primarily for current students. If you don't agree, when you turn the UT/UF game on in a few minutes, watch and see how many current students are filling up the box seats and sitting on the 50 yard line. If they are lucky enough to get in, you'll find them stuffed in the corner seats of the end zones. By the same token however, I do not think the burden for paying for football should rest on the backs of curerent students. I've also read on this board where there are those that think it is proper to have soccer, golf, volleyball, etc. instead of a football program. While I am all for those sports if they can find funding, the problem with those sports at the expense of football is that you still have the financial drain but don't get the benefits of widespread alumni pride, name recognition etc. That's a "lose/lose" situation.
3. I have also read on this board that football cannot be viable here because of UT. I can't buy that argument. I and many others on this board could name you dozens of schools located even closer to the "big state university" who are operating viable programs. A quick example that comes to mind is East Carolina which is located closer to two major state universities than we are to UT. Also, Wake Forrest has a much smaller student body than ETSU and has a viable program at the major college level, even though they are surrounded by three major universities. My point here, is that it is not about logistics...it is all about leadership, planning, and marketing; which leads me to my final point:
4. I have read on this board that the people of this area do not care about and will not support ETSU atheletics. In the 30 years I have been keeping up with ETSU, while there have periodically been some "stars" at various positions in the administration, I have yet to see a focused plan with accountabilities in the atheletics department, fully supported by the president. As somone else mentioned on the board, I also have only been asked one time (in an at least somewhat personal way) to give money to ETSU atheletics; and I gave all I could (which I promptly demanded back when football was voted down by the students). While I admire the efforts of the BFF, they or any other organization will not be able to bring back football without the visible, active support of the university administration. While ETSU has some advantages for funding that many other schools do not have (such as a large local alumni presence and medical school graduates) that could be very beneficial if properly marketed, no one (including myself) is going to give hard earned money to something not fully supported by the university administration. That is not being uncaring or apathetic (in spite of the accusations on this board), its simply being realistic. Bottom line is this...when we get a president like they have over at App State, we'll have a good football program. Until then, football is dead in the water.

Thanks 1.80. Hope is still very much alive. Could not have said it better myself.

Well said, $1.80!!!

(09-14-2009 07:54 PM)NorthEastTennesseeTiger Wrote:  Crack, is bad for you, really, put the pipe down.

ETSU Football will always be a money pit. I think U of Memphis loses two mil a year on football and they draw 30K a game. ETSU was losing one mil a year before they dropped football, that tells you the football program at ETSU was on bread and water, before it was dropped.

Why would anyone want to have a program that will always be sub-standard and be a drain on everything.

Given the money realities, I could care less if ETSU ever has a football team. Focus on basketball, where we could actually have a chance at building something special.

You're not connecting the dots, football and the success of basketball are TIED TOGETHER.

We're not going to be building anything special in basketball while sitting in the A-Sun conference. We are in the A-SUN for one reason and one reason only, no football. The lack of respect for the A-SUN was reflected in the fact that while going 23-11 we received a 16 seed in the NCAA tourney. I promise you if we would have gone 23-11 in the So Con we would not have been a 16 seed and who knows what would have happened in the tourney. Do you realize that there are regular season games in the So Con that have and do get televised? And I`m not talking about on CSS.

We are NEVER going to build anything special basketball wise while languishing in the bog that is the A-SUN. Gardner Webb and every other school that actually wants to move forward athletically is running away from this conference like the plague.

And it isn't just Men's B-Ball being affected, Women's B-Ball, track, volleyball, and yes even Tennis all took a hit when we left the So Con. You can pat ETSU on the back if you want to for dominating almost every sport in this conference, or you can see the situation for what it is. We moved from the varsity down to the JV and are dominating, that's no reason to be celebrating or self-congratulating.

Congraduations!

ETSU is the smartest kid in the special ed class

Oh boy!

(09-21-2009 01:49 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  

(09-14-2009 07:54 PM)NorthEastTennesseeTiger Wrote:  Crack, is bad for you, really, put the pipe down.

ETSU Football will always be a money pit. I think U of Memphis loses two mil a year on football and they draw 30K a game. ETSU was losing one mil a year before they dropped football, that tells you the football program at ETSU was on bread and water, before it was dropped.

Why would anyone want to have a program that will always be sub-standard and be a drain on everything.

Given the money realities, I could care less if ETSU ever has a football team. Focus on basketball, where we could actually have a chance at building something special.

You're not connecting the dots, football and the success of basketball are TIED TOGETHER.

We're not going to be building anything special in basketball while sitting in the A-Sun conference. We are in the A-SUN for one reason and one reason only, no football. The lack of respect for the A-SUN was reflected in the fact that while going 23-11 we received a 16 seed in the NCAA tourney. I promise you if we would have gone 23-11 in the So Con we would not have been a 16 seed and who knows what would have happened in the tourney. Do you realize that there are regular season games in the So Con that have and do get televised? And I`m not talking about on CSS.

We are NEVER going to build anything special basketball wise while languishing in the bog that is the A-SUN. Gardner Webb and every other school that actually wants to move forward athletically is running away from this conference like the plague.

And it isn't just Men's B-Ball being affected, Women's B-Ball, track, volleyball, and yes even Tennis all took a hit when we left the So Con. You can pat ETSU on the back if you want to for dominating almost every sport in this conference, or you can see the situation for what it is. We moved from the varsity down to the JV and are dominating, that's no reason to be celebrating or self-congratulating.

Congraduations!

ETSU is the smartest kid in the special ed class

Oh boy!

I disagree, ETSU football is/was a money pit. Never had the money or fan support to be sucessful. I point to history as proof, it is not speculation, it never has received the support to survive much less thrive.

I hate repeating my self, but hey, if it didn't take the first time.

Conference affiliations are based on football, not on basketball, that is true. But I would argue that if a school is in a bad conference, in basketball at least they can schedule a killer non-conference schedule. So in basketball, I think if you can't get in to a BCS conference (for the money), then it doesn't matter what conference you are in, at least to a point.

I would argue that historically, Gonzaga, Depaul, Marquette, Seton Hall, Xavier, etc. have done OK without football. I think most of these schools are bigger and better funded than ETSU (don't know just a guess).

If ETSU were to reinstate football, would we be able to get back into the Southern Conference? Yes, but to most people in the area the Southern conference is still the special ed class when it comes to football. After all the Southern Conference isn't the SEC.

Would this increase attendance for all sports? Yes

Would homecoming be much better? Yes

Would ETSU football be competitive? No, not enough funding to run a first rate program, due to lack of fan support.

Would an ETSU football program drain resources from other athletics such as basketball? Yes, if the basketball program does well can't keep coach due to funding.

Would ETSU football be able to come close to break-even? No, history has proved that, no one will come even when the team is sucessful.

How much will a football program drain either/both academics or other athletic programs. At least 1 million, probably much more.

Will the state of Tennessee (with their history of funding TBR schools) provide the 1-3 million in YEARLY cash expenditures so ETSU can have a team? No, the state only pays 65%(?) of the bill for academics, what makes you think they care about ETSU football.

Is it worth the 1-3 million dollar drain on other athletic programs (basketball) and/or academics so that 6,000 fans in the tri-cites who don't attend UT football games on Saturday have somewhere to go? The answer is No for me

If someone has the money, by all means, have a team. I may even attend some of the games. But I don't want to hear any complaining when after one or two years, no one comes to the games. I don't want to hear any complaining when the football team is bad and we can't keep a basketball coach. I don't want to hear anyone complain when academic majors have to be eliminated or reduced. Because history has shown this is what will happen!

(09-21-2009 04:23 PM)NorthEastTennesseeTiger Wrote:  I don't want to hear anyone complain when academic majors have to be eliminated or reduced. Because history has shown this is what will happen!

I know of no ETSU majors that were discontinued because of football.
Can you elaborate?
Thanks

(09-21-2009 04:23 PM)NorthEastTennesseeTiger Wrote:  

(09-21-2009 01:49 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  

(09-14-2009 07:54 PM)NorthEastTennesseeTiger Wrote:  Crack, is bad for you, really, put the pipe down.

ETSU Football will always be a money pit. I think U of Memphis loses two mil a year on football and they draw 30K a game. ETSU was losing one mil a year before they dropped football, that tells you the football program at ETSU was on bread and water, before it was dropped.

Why would anyone want to have a program that will always be sub-standard and be a drain on everything.

Given the money realities, I could care less if ETSU ever has a football team. Focus on basketball, where we could actually have a chance at building something special.

You're not connecting the dots, football and the success of basketball are TIED TOGETHER.

We're not going to be building anything special in basketball while sitting in the A-Sun conference. We are in the A-SUN for one reason and one reason only, no football. The lack of respect for the A-SUN was reflected in the fact that while going 23-11 we received a 16 seed in the NCAA tourney. I promise you if we would have gone 23-11 in the So Con we would not have been a 16 seed and who knows what would have happened in the tourney. Do you realize that there are regular season games in the So Con that have and do get televised? And I`m not talking about on CSS.

We are NEVER going to build anything special basketball wise while languishing in the bog that is the A-SUN. Gardner Webb and every other school that actually wants to move forward athletically is running away from this conference like the plague.

And it isn't just Men's B-Ball being affected, Women's B-Ball, track, volleyball, and yes even Tennis all took a hit when we left the So Con. You can pat ETSU on the back if you want to for dominating almost every sport in this conference, or you can see the situation for what it is. We moved from the varsity down to the JV and are dominating, that's no reason to be celebrating or self-congratulating.

Congraduations!

ETSU is the smartest kid in the special ed class

Oh boy!

I disagree, ETSU football is/was a money pit. Never had the money or fan support to be sucessful. I point to history as proof, it is not speculation, it never has received the support to survive much less thrive.

I hate repeating my self, but hey, if it didn't take the first time.

Conference affiliations are based on football, not on basketball, that is true. But I would argue that if a school is in a bad conference, in basketball at least they can schedule a killer non-conference schedule. So in basketball, I think if you can't get in to a BCS conference (for the money), then it doesn't matter what conference you are in, at least to a point.

I would argue that historically, Gonzaga, Depaul, Marquette, Seton Hall, Xavier, etc. have done OK without football. I think most of these schools are bigger and better funded than ETSU (don't know just a guess).

If ETSU were to reinstate football, would we be able to get back into the Southern Conference? Yes, but to most people in the area the Southern conference is still the special ed class when it comes to football. After all the Southern Conference isn't the SEC.

Would this increase attendance for all sports? Yes

Would homecoming be much better? Yes

Would ETSU football be competitive? No, not enough funding to run a first rate program, due to lack of fan support.

Would an ETSU football program drain resources from other athletics such as basketball? Yes, if the basketball program does well can't keep coach due to funding.

Would ETSU football be able to come close to break-even? No, history has proved that, no one will come even when the team is sucessful.

How much will a football program drain either/both academics or other athletic programs. At least 1 million, probably much more.

Will the state of Tennessee (with their history of funding TBR schools) provide the 1-3 million in YEARLY cash expenditures so ETSU can have a team? No, the state only pays 65%(?) of the bill for academics, what makes you think they care about ETSU football.

Is it worth the 1-3 million dollar drain on other athletic programs (basketball) and/or academics so that 6,000 fans in the tri-cites who don't attend UT football games on Saturday have somewhere to go? The answer is No for me

If someone has the money, by all means, have a team. I may even attend some of the games. But I don't want to hear any complaining when after one or two years, no one comes to the games. I don't want to hear any complaining when the football team is bad and we can't keep a basketball coach. I don't want to hear anyone complain when academic majors have to be eliminated or reduced. Because history has shown this is what will happen!

Michigan paid Appalachian State $400,000 to come up for a game.

How's that for a money drain?

Sorry but you couldn't be more wrong, just because you aren't in a BCS conference doesn't mean you are in a bad conference. If ETSU had had the proper vision, leadership, and will we could be in Conference USA by now. Peer programs who were in the So Con with us have moved on well ahead of ETSU. Getting back to a conference like the So Con is step #1, and most people in this area would give up a lot to be back in the So Con.

Also, fan support and the product on the field are tied together. If you cut the number of scholarships you can't expect to put out a good product on the field. If you do a piss poor job of marketing and advertising the program you can't expect to put out a good product on the field. If you won't pay your coaches at a competitive rate with peer schools you can't expect to put out a good product on the field.

Without a good product on the field you won't get fan support. Without a good gameday atmosphere you won't get fan support(this goes for football and b-ball). Without good facilities you won't get fan support.

And I don't want to hear how our proximity to Tennessee hurt us, Carson Newman is 30mins from the UT campus and they pack their place out every week. But guess what, they have a good product on the field, they have a great gameday atmosphere, and they have great facilities.

BTW, if ETSU football was such a drain on the other sports then why in the hell haven't we seen a spike since the football program was dropped? Why doesn't ETSU have the most well funded B-Ball program in the conference? Doesn't doesn't ETSU have the best facilities in the conference? Why doesn't ETSU have the highest paid coaches in the conference? Why in the hell am I hearing Murry Bartow talk about a limited recruiting and travel budget?

Sorry but I`m calling BS

Oh and

UTC netted $800,000 for two games against Oklahoma and Florida St

Deleware St will be paid $400,000 to play Michigan this season.

Northern Iowa was paid $400,000 to play Iowa

Should I continue?

Whoops, just saw that UTC will be paid another $400,000 to play Alabama this year.

And Western Kentucky was paid $700,000 to play you know who earlier this year. A genuine 1AA like we are trying to return to pays a lot of the programs off every year by playing a 1A game. Sometimes two games. If I understand correctly this is how most 1AA teams help to fund their programs. The 1AA schools get the exposure of playing at the big boys places and enjoy a huge pay day. This is why every other state university in Tennessee has a football team. Not exactly rocket science.