[/quote]

Exactly, but with GSU or even Ga State in the picture, GSU and Ga State would begin to win most of those battles making it extremely difficult with 5 FBS teams in Alabama. At least with GSU in teh SB the talent would stay in the conference whereas if GSU went to a new conference it could hurt the SB overall by losing some of their talent pool.
[/quote]

Please use this so you won't develop tennis elbow patting yourself on the back ! Hope you don't seriously consider that GSU/Ga State would really have a big effect on recruiting in the Belt ? You give yourself too much credit and to little credit to Belt schools.

Exactly, but with GSU or even Ga State in the picture, GSU and Ga State would begin to win most of those battles making it extremely difficult with 5 FBS teams in Alabama. At least with GSU in teh SB the talent would stay in the conference whereas if GSU went to a new conference it could hurt the SB overall by losing some of their talent pool.
[/quote]

Please use this so you won't develop tennis elbow patting yourself on the back ! Hope you don't seriously consider that GSU/Ga State would really have a big effect on recruiting in the Belt ?

[/quote]

I know an eastern shift is not something N Texas would want so I understand your position. But having the best ratio of FBS signees to # of FBS schools is a good thing although you may disagree.

(08-14-2009 10:30 AM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  According to your theory, Troy would be able to out recruit La Monroe in Louisanna and La Monroe out recruit Troy in Alabama?

I'm not sure where you pulled that from, but no.....Troy and ULM (like other SBC schools) will continue to lose recruits to the big schools, and get the 1 or 2 gems in the rough that are overlooked.

Your thinking that GSU and Ga State would begin winning recruiting wars against Auburn and Alabama because you've moved to 1-A is ridiculous.

(08-14-2009 10:52 AM)Fanof49ASU Wrote:  

(08-14-2009 10:30 AM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  According to your theory, Troy would be able to out recruit La Monroe in Louisanna and La Monroe out recruit Troy in Alabama?

I'm not sure where you pulled that from, but no.....Troy and ULM (like other SBC schools) will continue to lose recruits to the big schools, and get the 1 or 2 gems in the rough that are overlooked.

Your thinking that GSU and Ga State would begin winning recruiting wars against Auburn and Alabama because you've moved to 1-A is ridiculous.

We won't win against Auburn and Alabama but once established as an FBS team they will win the majority of battles against Troy and MTSU and teams from the CUSA coming long distances.

From what I understand, Troy is beginning to have some recruiting battles with Auburn. And if GSU were to become an established FBS team and they can offer a prospect from GA immediate playing time they will win some battles between teams like Clemson.

Recruiting is such a small tiny element in the mix and if Georgia Southern would do so great at recruiting Georgia that it hurts Troy, MT, and USA you just made the argument for three no votes in a league where you are going to need for no more than three to oppose your membership.

As a friend once said of getting a title promotion without any more money... if I can spend it or eat it, I don't want it.

The only compelling argument that has been put forth is monetary. The possibility that coming in reduces overall transportation costs. I suspect that savings does not equal splitting money more ways nor does it offset potential lost basketball money if it becomes harder to secure good NCAA berths that open the door to generating additional revenue.

SMU has tradition, so they've got nice trophies and banners and old photos look through after getting kicked to the curb. BYU has won a national championship. Can you watch their games on ABC/NBC/CBS/Fox/ESPN? Do they have a guaranteed spot in the BCS by winning their league?

Tradition means zip. Success in FCS doesn't mean a whole lot.

I see no new TV deal, no new bowl deal, no indication it means an extra at-large to the NCAA Tournament every six years, so what is it that is to cause us to want to add you?

(08-14-2009 10:56 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  I see no new TV deal, no new bowl deal, no indication it means an extra at-large to the NCAA Tournament every six years, so what is it that is to cause us to want to add you?

Let me ask you this. Do you think GSU has more to potentially offer than any of the current SB teams? Our problem is that we have had terrible leadership that didn't make the move years ago. I would think it is reasonable that if GSU had entered the SB at the same time as Troy, the teams would be very similar today.

(08-14-2009 11:19 AM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  

(08-14-2009 10:56 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  I see no new TV deal, no new bowl deal, no indication it means an extra at-large to the NCAA Tournament every six years, so what is it that is to cause us to want to add you?

Let me ask you this. Do you think GSU has more to potentially offer than any of the current SB teams? Our problem is that we have had terrible leadership that didn't make the move years ago. I would think it is reasonable that if GSU had entered the SB at the same time as Troy, the teams would be very similar today.

Laughable. No GSU doesn't have more or actually as much potential than any Belt team. You're starting to get a little ridiculous now. Time to move on. This thread is starting to get tiresome even though the board is slow waitin for football to begin.

(08-14-2009 11:29 AM)MeanGreen61 Wrote:  

(08-14-2009 11:19 AM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  

(08-14-2009 10:56 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  I see no new TV deal, no new bowl deal, no indication it means an extra at-large to the NCAA Tournament every six years, so what is it that is to cause us to want to add you?

Let me ask you this. Do you think GSU has more to potentially offer than any of the current SB teams? Our problem is that we have had terrible leadership that didn't make the move years ago. I would think it is reasonable that if GSU had entered the SB at the same time as Troy, the teams would be very similar today.

Laughable. No GSU doesn't have more or actually as much potential than any Belt team. You're starting to get a little ridiculous now. Time to move on. This thread is starting to get tiresome even though the board is slow waitin for football to begin.
No

I understand your strong resistance against an Eastern expansion give you are an N Texas fan but and APP St and GSU package deal would be an excellent combination that would renew and create great rivalries, expand into two of the largest states in the South, and with the great recruiting advantage add great teams on the field. Hopefully N Texas can improve on the field and help the SB.

Ga State and Ga Southern may be a great package deal as well.

[/quote]

Let me ask you this. Do you think GSU has more to potentially offer than any of the current SB teams? Our problem is that we have had terrible leadership that didn't make the move years ago. I would think it is reasonable that if GSU had entered the SB at the same time as Troy, the teams would be very similar today.
[/quote]

I do not think that GSU has more potential as any current SB teams. The problem as you have pointed out, was with your leadership, which has hurt you potential as a IA member. If yall had made the move at the right time, things might be different. If you snooze you loose.

I am not trying to offend, but you cannont recruit someone into a conference on potential alone (see UAB in CUSA). You need some numbers to back you up.

That being said GSU has a great reputation in IAA...whipped TROY and put us out of the playoffs while we were undefeated and ranked #1. Same can be said for AppSt.'s rep in IAA. However TROY had to join IA as an Indy and prove ourselves for membership before we were admitted to the SBC (the best thing to happen to TROY as a IA school...this includes the wins that we have racked up).

My personal oppinion would be for the SBC to hold off on expansion alltogether. Wait for the BCS boys to make their move on some of the non-BCS conferences and use a solid front to negotiate a reginal division of members forming around SE and TX models, but incorporating 4 new IA members (USA will already be IA, the 2 TX schools and AppSt./GSU). Other things to consider would be swapping UTEP back to the WAC, Moving LATECH back east, what/if the MWC picks up and if they get BCS inclusion, what to do with non-football members, etc., etc. etc.

(08-14-2009 11:36 AM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  

(08-14-2009 11:29 AM)MeanGreen61 Wrote:  

(08-14-2009 11:19 AM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  

(08-14-2009 10:56 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  I see no new TV deal, no new bowl deal, no indication it means an extra at-large to the NCAA Tournament every six years, so what is it that is to cause us to want to add you?

Let me ask you this. Do you think GSU has more to potentially offer than any of the current SB teams? Our problem is that we have had terrible leadership that didn't make the move years ago. I would think it is reasonable that if GSU had entered the SB at the same time as Troy, the teams would be very similar today.

Laughable. No GSU doesn't have more or actually as much potential than any Belt team. You're starting to get a little ridiculous now. Time to move on. This thread is starting to get tiresome even though the board is slow waitin for football to begin.
No

I understand your strong resistance against an Eastern expansion give you are an N Texas fan but and APP St and GSU package deal would be an excellent combination that would renew and create great rivalries, expand into two of the largest states in the South, and with the great recruiting advantage add great teams on the field. Hopefully N Texas can improve on the field and help the SB.

Ga State and Ga Southern may be a great package deal as well.

Last post on this subject....... you are entitiled to your opinion but IMHO the Belt doesn't need Ga Southern and/or App state. As Arkstfan said you have nothing of true substance to offer. As for North Texas we will do fine thank you....... Have a nice day !

(08-14-2009 10:30 AM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  UGA doesn't beat BAMA for players in Alabama and BAMA doesn't beat UGA for players in GA.

Are you serious? The top state schools don't lose top in state talent to surrounding states?

In 2008 UGA signed Marlon Brown, nation's #2 WR from Memphis, TN. Aaron Murray, nation's #3 QB out of Tampa, FL. In 2007 they signed the nation's #2 WR, AJ Green out of South Carolina. A few years back they signed a kid named Matthew Stafford out of Texas.

You ever heard of a kid from Georgia named Eric Berry? You don't think UGA would have loved to have had him?

Most teams have the majority of their roster made up of instate talent, however, there's plenty of taking top talent from across state lines that goes on everywhere.

Weak sauce trying to deflect real business oriented questions by blaming location.

Yeah GSU is the only school to have suffered leadership issues.

Arkansas State once had an AD and president so hell bent to balance the budget they dumped a home game against Texas Tech, sold a home game against then #10 Colorado State back to CSU, and dumped a home game against Wyoming in order to get more road money games.

We had two AD's that encouraged coaches to not award all their scholarships and use the savings for the extras they needed for their programs, that got so bad that for a couple years we were trudging off to play three money games a year with fewer scholarship players than App had when they faced Michigan.

I'm sure most everyone here can regale you with stories of leadership debacles. That's one of the problems as a transition school, you cannot always afford to hire good people.

But back to the matter at hand, the questions you won't answer.

Can you bring us more TV exposure? You know that answer is no.
Can you bring us a bowl game? That answer is no and that's where USA has you, by all accounts the GMAC organizers have said they intend to bring the Sun Belt into the game when USA joins.
Will you help us get at-large bids and better seeds in the NCAA Basketball Tournament? The answer appears to be no.

Look at rosters around the Sun Belt most of the schools recruit Georgia hard as it is. I don't see adding a Georgia school improving that. As I said before, you actually argue against yourself on that point.

I don't look down on Georgia Southern nor Appalachain State, I've got more respect for the programs than many in your own states have.

End of the day, intercollegiate athletics is a business and I've yet to see the business case made for expansion. That has nothing to do with me living on the western edge of the league. You could be another three hours further away and I'd advocate for you if it made business sense.

(08-14-2009 12:05 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(08-14-2009 10:30 AM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  UGA doesn't beat BAMA for players in Alabama and BAMA doesn't beat UGA for players in GA.

Are you serious? The top state schools don't lose top in state talent to surrounding states?

In 2008 UGA signed Marlon Brown, nation's #2 WR from Memphis, TN. Aaron Murray, nation's #3 QB out of Tampa, FL. In 2007 they signed the nation's #2 WR, AJ Green out of South Carolina. A few years back they signed a kid named Matthew Stafford out of Texas.

You ever heard of a kid from Georgia named Eric Berry? You don't think UGA would have loved to have had him?

Most teams have the majority of their roster made up of instate talent, however, there's plenty of taking top talent from across state lines that goes on everywhere.

Those are exceptions. For the most part the top talent stays in state which is why most of UGA's roster is people from GA, Bama from Alabama etc. Tennessee usually gets the best players in Tenn but have to recruit nationally as well because Tennessee is not a hot bed for recruiting. I just don't agree that players just randomly go to schools in different states. The data clearly shows that they are much more likely to stay in their home state. Like everything in life there are exceptions and 100% of top talent do not stay in their home state, but the number is probably 65-70% so there is a clear advantage to being the one or two home teams versus competing against 20 other schools to grab an athlete from another state.

(08-14-2009 09:56 AM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  

(08-14-2009 09:51 AM)JoeJag Wrote:  It is entertaining to read and discuss this thread, but that's all that it is, entertaining. IN reality the SBC will not invite either ASU or GSU into the league. What is real is that USA IS coming in, so get ready for it. Sure, we haven't even played a game yet, and we will take our lumps, bumps, and thumps, but will get better and better and will eventually compete in football with the other current SBC schools. Good luck to the FCS schools in their football futures.

Indeed, South Alabama is the worst thing that could happen to Troy, yet one of the better things for the sunbelt if mobile gets on board like it has with Jag Basketball. Hope to see good things, Joe.

South Alabama will not affect Troy in a negative way. Troy will continue to be successful recruiting with or without USA. The competition between the schools can only be healthy. The rivalry is a natural. Troy fans will flock to Mobile and the South Alabama fans would flood Troy during once this series gets started. I honestly believe it will be one of the best rivalries in the conference. I've always liked Troy. I have had many family members attend the school. Troy is an established program and South is just an upstart and will grow it's program until we are on an equal with other SBC schools. The school is serious about football. Personally, I'm looking forward to playing all the Sun Belt teams on the gridiron, but especially Troy.

One additional point.

The USA situation doesn't compare.

South Alabama is a full member of the conference and is now adding football. League bylaws require that once they gain full FBS membership that they come into the league for football.

USA made its case for membership before it added football and they've been a rather successful member, most recently earning an at-large NCAA berth in 2008.

There will never be a vote to determine if USA should be a member of the league in football because that decision was made once they elected to add football and pursue FBS membership as an existing full member.

(08-14-2009 08:14 AM)SidSouth Wrote:  

(08-14-2009 02:51 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I'm actually not in favor of expanding. I've said it before, but if it were up to me, USA wouldn't be moving up, nothing against USA, but when we were at 120 in FBS I was all for staying there and having 10 conferences with 12 teams. Personally even with USA moving up, I'm still in favor of the 10 conferences of 12 teams, just give Notre Dame the option of falling in line and joining a conference if they take it great and then USA will be the nations only independent, sorry Jags. If Notre Dame balks, which IMO they would, the Jags take that conference spot and then Notre Dame is the nation's only independent.

All that taken into account, if the current Sun Belt stays intact and expansion is in the future, both schools would definitely be near the top of the shortlist. Personally I don't see the Sun Belt going out of our way to expand anytime soon. If App State, Ga Southern, Texas State, UTSA, UCA, UNO, UALR, or whoever come to us and we decide they'd be a good addition, than we'll take them, however, I think there is an overwhelming sense that the conference landscape is about to change again, it may be a big change, Big East going to 12 football members causing massive filter down, or it might be a small change i.e. Big East going to 9, Big 10 going to 12...etc. which would cause less filter down. I think the better idea for the Sun Belt is to see what happens in the next few years and if the major shakeup happens re-evaluate afterward. I've also gone on record as saying that if the Big East were to go to 12 by raiding C-USA that we need to have invitations ready for the better remaining programs, rather than let them raid us. If the Big East goes to 12, I think there's a very good chance that at least one of the four new members comes from the Sun Belt but just not to ruffle any feathers or start the arguments of who the Big East would take from the Sun Belt, let's just assume that they take Memphis, ECU, UCF and take Temple back. At that point I would definitely rather have Southern Miss and Houston rather than any combination of current FCS schools.

______________________________
It's pretty evident that some of you aren't aware of some pending conference realignments in the works due to the fact that increasing travel costs and other economical pressures are dictating.

I understand that there are those in the SBC who frankly do not want USA in the conference for various reasons and I can understand some that thinking to a degree, but you may as well get used to the idea as it IS going to happen. South brings a larger stadium to the conference with future plans of expansion plus other positives such as a nice on-campus facility. The university has the resources and is committed to going "big time" in the world of college football.

There are some strong opinions in the Mobile/south Alabama area that USA would be better suited to wait and see what plays out with conference realignments before jumping into a conference and the thinking is that South may be better suited in C-USA a with natural rivals in USM, UAB, Tulane, Memphis, etc. That is an option that is on the minds of some very influential supporters. Who knows what the future will bring?

Did you even read what I wrote? I didn't say that I don't want USA in the conference, or that I want to try and keep them out. All I said was that if it were up to me we would have never gone above 120 FBS teams. It has nothing to do with the University of South Alabama and everything to do with team number 121.

(08-14-2009 09:38 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(08-14-2009 08:59 AM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  As we all know, the money is in the BCS and anything outside of that is scraps....although important scraps for the SB.

As the BCS continues to be challenged and the standards to compete in a BCS bowl are more inclusive, the SB will need to earn respect on the field in order to ever be considered. Right now the SB isn't close to that and adding USA only hurts the reputation in terms of football. The SB needs to win on the field so people will think twice about calling them the the Sun Belch/Sun Burn. I think the SB is a good conference with potential down the road and GSU and App St can help on the field and add a tremendous intense rivalry.

The biggest thing the SB needs is great football teams on the field that regularly upset teams from the SEC, ACC and Big 12. GSU and APP St can bring that to the table down the road. The only team in the SB that has turned heads on the field for the most part and consistenly is Troy. Everyone else is mostly potential and some probably don't even have that.

Having a big market team that fills 12k in their stadium and no one in the city is watching doesn't help much. There really aren't a lot of big city teams that are great.

I'm sorry but you aren't realistic. Even last year questions were raised as to Utah's worthiness based on their schedule and they beat two BCS teams in regular season and beat good TCU and BYU teams.

Who doesn't have potential in the league?
Arkansas State? We beat Texas A&M last year and got beat at Texas the year before on a call that the Big XII director of officals lated admitted they blew. Past I-AA runner-up.

FAU? Been FBS less than 5 years and has two bowl wins.

FIU? Their worst team sent more guys to the NFL than anyone in the league and many BCS schools. They had bad coaching and they are getting over it.

Louisiana-Lafayette? Second largest school in Louisiana, Arkansas, and Mississippi. Good fan base and sits in the middle of a recruiting rich area.

Louisiana-Monroe? Past I-AA champion, in a fertile recruiting area and beat Bama two years ago.

Middle Tennessee? Three game win streak over Vandy, beat Maryland last year and flat blew a win over Virginia the year before.

North Texas? Located in one of the top three recruiting states, four bowl appearances and three BCS wins since moving up.

Western Kentuck? Past I-AA champion.

You think rural with good crowds is better than urban with bad crowds? Then why did the Motor City Bowl and ESPN look at the merits of three Sun Belt teams with identical records (FAU, ASU, ULL) who had split amongst themselves and select the one with arguably the least impressive non-conference wins and the smallest crowds (FAU).

Well stated ArkStFan! I have no doubt that both GSU or App.St have good programs, but I don't see many SBC Institutions wanting to divide the revenue pie any further at this point. The travel cost alone is a non-starter for most presidents.

If we're going to add two new schools, I vote for Full Sail in Orlando and the Savannah College of Art and Design.

I'm drooling over the potential. All they have to do is start athletic programs.

Hey, it is something interesting to talk about before college football kicks off and it sure has been a busy thread so far . . .

We had a thread on expansion recently that as I recall leaned toward adding Texas State and Missouri State should the SBC decide to add teams at some future date. So is it . . .

GSU/Appie > Texas State/Missouri State

or

GSU/Appie < Texas State/Missouri State

It's kinda funny to read this rabid, anti-expansion/anti-little guy vitriol from the some of the members of the SUN BELT. It kinda reminds me of BCS supporters against a playoff system.

Guys, we're the SUN BELT. Let's not get too big for our britches here....