Isn't 2011 the when moratorium for membership reclassification expires?

My guess is the NCAA will come out with new standards for DI membership (I'm predicting a split of DI into two classifications a la football), and schools who had already made the jump would be grandfathered in like the others mentioned. That may be the saving grace.

The most recent precedent is the Mid-Continent (now Summit) who lost their bid at least one year, maybe twice in the mid-90's.

You're right...I had forgot that Jacksonville got a buy in the tournament. I wasn't thinking.

I know there's a lot of talk about travel partners on these boards whenever there's an expansion thread, but I do want to bring it up here.

With Campbell gone, the A-Sun has pretty decent travel partner pairs:

Belmont/Lipscomb
Kennesaw/Mercer
ETSU/USC-Upstate
Stetson/FGCU
UNF/JU

So if it is determined that you need the additional member, take UTPA, then match them with Houston Baptist. Then go to a pure Thurs/Sat travel partner schedule.

That's at least one possibility anyway. I guess the other possibility is to take UTPA with the understanding that this isn't their permanent home and that it's just a symbiotic relationship that needs to end as soon as possible.

(05-19-2009 03:15 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  I know there's a lot of talk about travel partners on these boards whenever there's an expansion thread, but I do want to bring it up here.

With Campbell gone, the A-Sun has pretty decent travel partner pairs:

Belmont/Lipscomb
Kennesaw/Mercer
ETSU/USC-Upstate
Stetson/FGCU
UNF/JU

So if it is determined that you need the additional member, take UTPA, then match them with Houston Baptist. Then go to a pure Thurs/Sat travel partner schedule.

That's at least one possibility anyway. I guess the other possibility is to take UTPA with the understanding that this isn't their permanent home and that it's just a symbiotic relationship that needs to end as soon as possible.

The conference is still too spread out in my opinion. If you add a team from Texas what in the world are they doing. It is a long way from Jacksonville Florida to Texas for another team in your conference. This is ridiculous. It just makes travel costs worst especially for all of the other sports that don't pay their own way anyway.

(05-19-2009 04:20 PM)camelfan Wrote:  

(05-19-2009 03:15 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  I know there's a lot of talk about travel partners on these boards whenever there's an expansion thread, but I do want to bring it up here.

With Campbell gone, the A-Sun has pretty decent travel partner pairs:

Belmont/Lipscomb
Kennesaw/Mercer
ETSU/USC-Upstate
Stetson/FGCU
UNF/JU

So if it is determined that you need the additional member, take UTPA, then match them with Houston Baptist. Then go to a pure Thurs/Sat travel partner schedule.

That's at least one possibility anyway. I guess the other possibility is to take UTPA with the understanding that this isn't their permanent home and that it's just a symbiotic relationship that needs to end as soon as possible.

The conference is still too spread out in my opinion. If you add a team from Texas what in the world are they doing. It is a long way from Jacksonville Florida to Texas for another team in your conference. This is ridiculous. It just makes travel costs worst especially for all of the other sports that don't pay their own way anyway.

Texas A&M-Corpus Christi might be an attractive school to add with Pan Am.

Corpus Christi is an up and coming school...

(05-19-2009 04:25 PM)squirrelystew Wrote:  Texas A&M-Corpus Christi might be an attractive school to add with Pan Am.

A&M-Corpus Christi was accepted into the Southland a couple of years ago. UTPA, Chicago State, and Savannah State are the only independents out there that are core members. Centenary, N Orleans and Denver have issues with their conferences.

Centenary probably would love to leave the Summit as practically every school except Oral Roberts is a plane trip. Only problem is Centenary's APR, which, if continued, could force Centenary out of DI.

By mileage, Centenary/Shreveport is actually closer to Johnson City than Fort Myers/Naples/FGCU.

(05-19-2009 06:18 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-19-2009 04:25 PM)squirrelystew Wrote:  Texas A&M-Corpus Christi might be an attractive school to add with Pan Am.

A&M-Corpus Christi was accepted into the Southland a couple of years ago. UTPA, Chicago State, and Savannah State are the only independents out there that are core members. Centenary, N Orleans and Denver have issues with their conferences.

Centenary probably would love to leave the Summit as practically every school except Oral Roberts is a plane trip. Only problem is Centenary's APR, which, if continued, could force Centenary out of DI.

By mileage, Centenary/Shreveport is actually closer to Johnson City than Fort Myers/Naples/FGCU.

Wow, I didn't realize Savannah State had been in D-1 that long. But you're right, they do qualify as a core member. That'd seem to be the easiest gig to give Savannah State a home as they continue to try to join the MEAC.

(05-19-2009 11:23 AM)camelfan Wrote:  I think that Longwood makes the best sense as they are in VA and the Big South is in VA, NC and SC. Longwood is also scheduled or has been scheduled by many of the teams in the past. I think the A-Sun has a problem. The teams are too spread out and they are going to have to spread even further out to get another team to qualify for automatic bid to NCAA's. If they don't do this quick then some teams may be forced to leave the A-Sun. I think the Big South will wait and not ask Longwood to join until it sees if an A-Sun member like ETSU is interested in jumping ship as ETSU would be a better addition that Longwood. THe Big South may eventually settle on Longwood but it will be a couple years before that happens in my opinion.

The A-Sun better getting busy getting another core member.

I think the Big South should go ahead and add Longwood. There is no one else to get unless they go after some of the HBCU schools. It is my understanding that the MEAC is now more interested in Savannah State, North Carolina Central, and Winston-Salem State and that they will probably take all three to go to 14 members. Otherwise it would have made more sense for the Big South to add the two HBCU programs in North Carolina, instead, and move to 12.

BIG SOUTH AFTER CAMPBELL JOINS AND IF LONGWOOD JOINS (12)
Liberty / Longwood
VMI / Radford
Campbell / High Point
Gardner-Webb / UNC Asheville
Presbyterian / Winthrop
Coastal Carolina / Charleston Southern

Members with football are listed in blue while those without football are listed in red. Campbell is listed in orange due to their playing non-scholarship football in the Pioneer League. I think the best ratio for a mixed group is 9/3, which is what the Southern Conference has, but the Big South would be a long way from that with 6/1/5 unless some current members, such as Winthrop or High Point, decide to add the sport as they have been rumored to be considering.

(05-19-2009 09:13 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(05-19-2009 06:18 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-19-2009 04:25 PM)squirrelystew Wrote:  

(05-19-2009 04:20 PM)camelfan Wrote:  

(05-19-2009 03:15 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  I know there's a lot of talk about travel partners on these boards whenever there's an expansion thread, but I do want to bring it up here.

With Campbell gone, the A-Sun has pretty decent travel partner pairs:

Belmont/Lipscomb
Kennesaw/Mercer
ETSU/USC-Upstate
Stetson/FGCU
UNF/JU

So if it is determined that you need the additional member, take UTPA, then match them with Houston Baptist. Then go to a pure Thurs/Sat travel partner schedule.

That's at least one possibility anyway. I guess the other possibility is to take UTPA with the understanding that this isn't their permanent home and that it's just a symbiotic relationship that needs to end as soon as possible.

The conference is still too spread out in my opinion. If you add a team from Texas what in the world are they doing. It is a long way from Jacksonville Florida to Texas for another team in your conference. This is ridiculous. It just makes travel costs worst especially for all of the other sports that don't pay their own way anyway.

Texas A&M-Corpus Christi might be an attractive school to add with Pan Am.

A&M-Corpus Christi was accepted into the Southland a couple of years ago. UTPA, Chicago State, and Savannah State are the only independents out there that are core members. Centenary, N Orleans and Denver have issues with their conferences.

Centenary probably would love to leave the Summit as practically every school except Oral Roberts is a plane trip. Only problem is Centenary's APR, which, if continued, could force Centenary out of DI.

By mileage, Centenary/Shreveport is actually closer to Johnson City than Fort Myers/Naples/FGCU.

Wow, I didn't realize Savannah State had been in D-1 that long. But you're right, they do qualify as a core member. That'd seem to be the easiest gig to give Savannah State a home as they continue to try to join the MEAC.

It might be easier to get the UTPA/HBU duo since the Great West will be all but dead as soon as South Dakota and, presumably, North Dakota depart for the Summit League in a couple of years. That would leave only the two Texas schools, Utah Valley, Chicago State, and NJIT in the league. Denver could wind up there as a last resort if they have no other choice but then the GWC would be relying on new schools to join up after the NCAA lifts the moratorium.

ATLANTIC SUN BY GEOGRAPHY AFTER CAMPBELL GOES AWAY (10)
Belmont / Lipscomb
East Tennessee / USC Upstate
Kennesaw State / Mercer
North Florida / Jacksonville
Stetson / Florida Gulf Coast

NJIT will probably end up in the NEC eventually after some of the smaller conferences in the East shuffle a couple of members around and create an opening. I actually do not see an opening for anybody to take another A-Sun program right now unless the OVC wants a non-football member as their #12. Beyond that, a lot would have to happen elsewhere, and I have a feeling the OVC will wait for North Alabama or let Jacksonville State try to jump toward FBS.

Hopefully if Denver leaves the Sun Belt, we would get a look. And I cant wait to see the crowds we would get for Houston Baptist.

(05-20-2009 01:40 PM)ETSUfan1 Wrote:  Hopefully if Denver leaves the Sun Belt, we would get a look. And I cant wait to see the crowds we would get for Houston Baptist.

The Sun Belt is no longer taking non-football members - it's a football driven league now, not basketball.

Denver doenst play football.

(05-20-2009 10:14 PM)ETSUfan1 Wrote:  Denver doenst play football.

Correct, but the Sun Belt is trying to find Denver a new home and isn't going to replace them when they leave unless it's with a football playing member. This is especially considering the Sun Belt has 13 members at present, so if Denver left, it would get them down to a more reasonable number - 10 football members & 2 non-football members (UALR, who will never leave & UNO, who might drop Div 1 sports). Even if UNO and Denver both left, the Sun Belt has shown no indication of interest in adding a non-football school; any future expansion will be to help football.

(05-20-2009 10:14 PM)ETSUfan1 Wrote:  

(05-20-2009 06:15 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-20-2009 01:40 PM)ETSUfan1 Wrote:  Hopefully if Denver leaves the Sun Belt, we would get a look. And I cant wait to see the crowds we would get for Houston Baptist.

The Sun Belt is no longer taking non-football members - it's a football driven league now, not basketball.

Denver doenst play football.

Not playing football is one of the main reasons Denver has to leave the Sun Belt Conference in a couple of years. That will get the Sun Belt down to 12 members, 10 of which have football, while the other two have been playing in that league for years.

Only if New Orleans drops athletics, or leaves Division I, will the Sun Belt then be in the market for new schools. Even if that happens, though, they would either push UALR to go elsewhere or else add a non-football school to rebalance the West Division.

You guys are only talking about spreading out the A-Sun even further. The A-Sun teams do not bring in enought money to continue traveling even futher and further away for conference games. I think this is one of the main reasons Campbell is getting out.

I thought when the ACC expanded and took on the teams that it did that they were too spread out but atleast they had the money to do this and it did add major markets to the conference which in the long run has made good sense for the league.

When you start talking about adding teams from Texas and Denver to come and play in a conference with teams from Florida? That makes no sense to me. Why not add a team from California, Alaska, Hawaii and Updtate New York and just span the whole country. I don't think any of these moves are feasibile from a money standpoint.

(05-21-2009 11:46 AM)camelfan Wrote:  You guys are only talking about spreading out the A-Sun even further. The A-Sun teams do not bring in enought money to continue traveling even futher and further away for conference games. I think this is one of the main reasons Campbell is getting out.

I thought when the ACC expanded and took on the teams that it did that they were too spread out but atleast they had the money to do this and it did add major markets to the conference which in the long run has made good sense for the league.

When you start talking about adding teams from Texas and Denver to come and play in a conference with teams from Florida? That makes no sense to me. Why not add a team from California, Alaska, Hawaii and Updtate New York and just span the whole country. I don't think any of these moves are feasibile from a money standpoint.

Nobody is suggesting adding Denver to the A-Sun. Denver got brought upt by the ETSU guys that want out of the A-Sun as possibly being their ticket into the Sun Belt.

As to the Texas teams, potentially if you don't invite UTPA, you could lose your autobid which makes the conference worthless. So given a choice between travelling to Texas occassionally or not having an autobid for the men's basketball tourney (other tourneys are easier to qualify the autobids for), I think Texas is what everyone would choose.

Travel costs can also be reduced by going to the travel partner system so that when you go out to Florida or Texas you play 2 conf games rather than just 1 before heading back home.

(05-21-2009 11:56 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  As to the Texas teams, potentially if you don't invite UTPA, you could lose your autobid which makes the conference worthless. So given a choice between travelling to Texas occassionally or not having an autobid for the men's basketball tourney (other tourneys are easier to qualify the autobids for), I think Texas is what everyone would choose.

I think people are panicking unnecessarily. As stated above, I do not see any conference interested in any of the 10 remaining A-Sun members right now, so there is nothing to worry about. The OVC will eventually want a 12th school but I think they may wait for someone with football, such as North Alabama, to move up to Division I after the NCAA moratorium is lifted in 2011.

Even if the new commissioner of the OVC reverses course, and they go after ETSU for example, the A-Sun would still be in good shape. The two Texas schools are not going anywhere. If the A-Sun needs them in 2012, they will still be in the same predicament, and the A-Sun could just invite them at that time. No need to increase travel costs until it really becomes necessary.

Savannah State would be the only school we would take. Its the only one even close to the ASUN's (giant) geographic footprint.

(05-21-2009 01:33 PM)ETSUfan1 Wrote:  Savannah State would be the only school we would take. Its the only one even close to the ASUN's (giant) geographic footprint.

Apparently the MEAC is now looking at Savannah State with the idea of going to 14 members by adding Savannah State and NC Central. It would help tie FAMU and Bethune-Cookman into the conference geographically; I have heard of FAMU interest in the SWAC, but I don't see it.

Another possibility to consider is how serious the Sun Belt becomes about having all of its members play football. Denver is on the way out the door but obviously would not be a good fit for the A-Sun. New Orleans and Arkansas-Little Rock, however, could work to some extent. Even if New Orleans drops to Division II, or gives up on athletics entirely, the A-Sun might still try for a package of Arkansas-Little Rock and Centenary as those two are even closer together. Denver could then take Centenary's spot in the Summit League.

ATLANTIC SUN IF SUCH A MOVE BECAME NECESSARY (12)
Centenary / Arkansas-Little Rock
Belmont / Lipscomb
East Tennessee / USC Upstate
Kennesaw State / Mercer
North Florida / Jacksonville
Stetson / Florida Gulf Coast

SUN BELT IF SUCH A DEAL WAS TO BE PUT TOGETHER (10)
North Texas / Arkansas State
Louisiana-Lafayette / Louisiana-Monroe
Western Kentucky / Middle Tennessee
Troy / South Alabama
Florida Atlantic / Florida International

SUMMIT IF SUCH AN AGREEMENT GETS WORKED OUT (12)
Southern Utah / Denver (out of options)
North Dakota State / North Dakota (speculation)
South Dakota State / South Dakota (announced)
Oral Roberts / UMKC
Western Illinois / IUPUI
IPFW / Oakland

This would not necessarily be ideal for the A-Sun but it would take care of the core member problem, should the NCAA choose to enforce it, and is certainly a better option than going all the way to the Mexican border. Making out like a bandit in such a scenario would be the Sun Belt as they would have two spots freed up for the possibility of seeking 12 members and a football title game. The Summit would neither benefit nor suffer since their main problem is that Southern Utah really belongs in the Big Sky and has for many years.