Just tell me Which of our enemies had medical doctors present to make sure that life was protected. Having Drs there could just about prove that it was NOT torture. You see there was no need for a doctor when Daniel Pear'ls head was separated from his body.

(05-15-2009 10:02 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Just tell me Which of our enemies had medical doctors present to make sure that life was protected. Having Drs there could just about prove that it was NOT torture. You see there was no need for a doctor when Daniel Pear'ls head was separated from his body.

Good point. Another point would be that our enemies seem to torture everyone they get their hands on while, of the thousands captured in Afghanistan, only a modest number who were thought to have life saving info are vacationing at Gitmo right now.

If Pelosi resigns, can we get back the $30 million she had earmarked for the Salt Marsh Harvest Mouse?

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SHHHHH'T !!!!!!

I say we Capture then off the Battlefield, Bring them over here First Class, GIVE them Free of Charge one of the Hollywood Mansions that have been foreclosed on (I mean Obamagog is CEO of all Financial Institutions now and can order this done), give them a Government Salary of at least $1 Million per year with the car(s) of their wishes filling the huge garages, and pamper the piss out of them.

I am sure that if they know of any bad old mean plots to kill THOUSANDS of Infidels, they will tell us all about it because WE ARE OBAMA FLOWERS and ARE SO SWEEEEEEEEEET and NICE !!!!!!!

Who needs Water Boarding when you can do the SAME DAMN THANG WITH A JACUZZI and 70 Virgins ?????

Right ROB's ????

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(05-15-2009 10:02 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Just tell me Which of our enemies had medical doctors present to make sure that life was protected. Having Drs there could just about prove that it was NOT torture. You see there was no need for a doctor when Daniel Pear'ls head was separated from his body.

Is this a serious response? I'll remind you that in the 60's, we (as a country and including many doctors) believed that the electric chair and firing squads did not constitute torture. Today, we feel differently. To make a statement implying that ALL DOCTORS would agree that our version of waterboarding was torture is a fabrication. You can't even state for a fact that a MAJORITY of doctors would believe it to be torture. Logically, I believe that may be true... but you can't prove it. LOGIC tells you that there are doctors who wouldn't. Besides, the AMA does not run this country. Congress does.

CONGRESS decided what constitutes torture... not Bush, not Rumsfeld and not Cheney... and not you or me. It was allowed... it was done... and not one single person died from it.

I can also pretty well guarantee that medical personnel WERE nearby because unlike other countries, we account for our prisoners. Had WE decapitated someone, there would have been a doctor present just like there was years ago when we did... so I guess it wasn't really torture then, because a doctor was there??

Your personal beliefs on the subject aren't really the point. I'm not questioning your beliefs... and you don't need to waste breath trying to convince people that waterboarding is bad. At the time it was done, it was an allowed practice. The fact that you have always thought it to be bad, and Pelosi has now changed her mind about it don't change the laws in effect at the time... Following the law... even if it does not suit YOUR sensibility is not a crime... and yelling louder about it or having enough people change their mind about it to agree with your position doesn't make it a crime either... NOR does it make you right and them wrong. It simply means the mood of the country has changed.

Ham, so where do we differ. Try rereading.

Doctors today are not from the Joseph Mangle school of medicine. They were in the interrogation room with a CLEAR DEFINITION of what was acceptable, and I can guarantee that if the Dr. indicated that there was any chance of permanent harm or death, that interrogation would be over. Waterboarding is NOT torture. IMO. I'm sure that the doctors in the interrogation rooms, job had nothing to do with defining TORTURE. Doctors live by clear cut rules and definitions. They were there to prevent loss of life, and harm. I may not trust the Spooks in the room, but I do have confidence in the Doctors being there. They did what they were supposed to do. That's why I say that if life is being protected, and no permanent harm was caused, It's not torture, and I believe more than half the people in this country agree with that. We are at War, FGS, and intelligence is VERY NECESSARY FOR US TO WIN . Even more uncomfortable interrogation methods are used every day in this country by police, that what ObamaMessiah is calling for terrorists.

Congress does not run the country, remember the part "Of the people, by the people, for the people." And the people will decide in 2010, 2012.

Peolsi is now in a corner. If in fact she was lied to by the CIA in the high level meetings, it constitutes a crime, and those people who conducted the meetings are guilty.

She had created a conundrum that she may not be able to emerge from.

(05-18-2009 05:18 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Peolsi is now in a corner. If in fact she was lied to by the CIA in the high level meetings, it constitutes a crime, and those people who conducted the meetings are guilty.

She had created a conundrum that she may not be able to emerge from.

Sum, she said the CIA lies to congress "all the time." If this is even remotely true then why is the Speaker, just a few heart beats removed from the Oval Office, letting the crime go uninvestigated and unpunished? Obama opened a huge can of democrat worms when he started this ****.

She has no choice except to resign. but the dems should not worry, they have plenty of other fools to replace her.

This will gain more and more legs as it becomes more and more obvious that the economic "stimulus" is doing nothing to stimulate the economy.
Nixon got into more trouble over Watergate than Clinton did over Monicagate because the economy sucked under Nixon while it did relatively well under Clinton.
If folks are doing well, they don't care about Washington games. If not, they look for someone to take the rap.

While I certainly don't disagree with most of your response... Sum, and obviously misread you... forgive that I don't always put a face to a user and sometimes respond to one post because it ises certain words while thinking of another.

Having said that... I don't think a) it is generally accepted that a doctor was there during the torture which just creates an arguing point for the other side... argue the details rather than the substance... they were certainly cared for by doctors.... we have the records... or B) that he (the doctor) wouldn't consider it torture by his own standards...again creating a detail to argue... MY Point is that congress and the courts DO determine was is allowed and not allowed. And they allowed it. Arguing about what it is or is not is immaterial. It was allowed... it was done...

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I tell you guys all the time that I think for my self and then watch to see which news agencies and pundits are thinking Like Me.

Well I was right on the money with my prediction that Panetta is going to cut Pelosi off at the knees and do it in a most vulgar way.

Most of the news outlets are pretty much saying as much and are backing Panetta on this one.

And I have to say that this is pretty refreshing from an administration that has been one to splay people wide open from crotch to throat to save face.

I hope Panetta puts that old shriveled up bag to bed for good and we never have to see her leather face or hear that fingernails on a chalkboard voice again.

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If Pelosi gets investigated for decisions she did not make, let's throw the Bush administration in jail for the decisions they did make.

I would sacrifice one Democrat for the sake of jailing war criminals.

(05-19-2009 01:56 AM)RockyMtnRamfan Wrote:  If Pelosi gets investigated for decisions she did not make, let's throw the Bush administration in jail for the decisions they did make.

I would sacrifice one Democrat for the sake of jailing war criminals.

Hopefully, one day your brain will grow and fill your skull capacity.

(05-19-2009 01:56 AM)RockyMtnRamfan Wrote:  If Pelosi gets investigated for decisions she did not make, let's throw the Bush administration in jail for the decisions they did make.

I would sacrifice one Democrat for the sake of jailing war criminals.

Fact is - no one will be going to jail and nothing will happen to Pelosi. Trying to drag the republicans to trial would open up a whole can of worms for too many powerful democrats as well.......that won't happen.

The MSM will try as best they can to let this Pelosi stuff die on the vine, they like here liberal politics too much. A repub in the same position as Pelosi would continue to get pounded and crucified. The only way Pelosi gets hammered would be if the Obama camp would decide they're better off without her - then they would quietly put the word out to let her have it.

(05-19-2009 01:56 AM)RockyMtnRamfan Wrote:  If Pelosi gets investigated for decisions she did not make, let's throw the Bush administration in jail for the decisions they did make.

I would sacrifice one Democrat for the sake of jailing war criminals.

GEEZE US you are a blithering idiot du jour !!!!!!

Why do you think this woman is in such a frightened tizzy over this ???

This goofy assed old bat was one of the Leading Members of the very Committee that was to Over See the handling of Captured Combatants and WAS Briefed all the time on the operations and updated on how interrogations and info gathering were going.

You know, just that unimportant bunch called "The House Intelligence Committee".

SHE IS one of the ADMINISTRATION you speak of half-twit and SHE IS criminally liable just as those bad old Meanies in the Bush Bunch you try to speak of are.

And she is SO STUPID, that she has frekkin ACCUSED the CIA of Lying to Congress !!!!! A FELONY that carries severe consequences for all who are found to be Complicit ....

Pelosi just took on Leon Panetta and that is like sticking your hand in a Rattle Snakes Nest ....

We can see that being a Fine Arts Major has nothing to do with any Real World Learning does it ???

What a waste of a college education when so many out there really want one that matters, like becoming a Medical Doctor and such.

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btw, RockyMtnRamfan: What Union or special interest group are you in?

(05-19-2009 01:56 AM)RockyMtnRamfan Wrote:  I would sacrifice one Democrat for the sake of jailing war criminals.

Sacrifice? Tick, you would punish an innocent person for the perceived guilt of others yet you wouldn't "sacrifice" your deeply held civil rights so we couldn't listen in on the phone calls of terrorists. I now know you have no loyalty or scruples at all. Your friends must love you.

(05-19-2009 04:15 PM)GGniner Wrote:  

I'd be really interested to hear one of those body language experts comment on this performance by Pelosi. My gut tells me that everything about this says she's lying through her teeth, but I'm no expert. Has anyone seen or heard an expert address this?

(05-19-2009 04:37 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(05-19-2009 01:56 AM)RockyMtnRamfan Wrote:  I would sacrifice one Democrat for the sake of jailing war criminals.

Sacrifice? Tick, you would punish an innocent person for the perceived guilt of others yet you wouldn't "sacrifice" your deeply held civil rights so we couldn't listen in on the phone calls of terrorists. I now know you have no loyalty or scruples at all. Your friends must love you.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin, 1775