(04-17-2009 08:19 AM)TopCoog Wrote:  Obama is a squirl that should not be respected by anyone. After 43 presidents we finally managed to put an unqualified toad in office.

Yeh...being Obama is in office for less than 100 days

James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Franklin Pierce, William Henry Harrison, Warren G. Harding, Millard Fillmore and George W. Bush was SOOOOOO much better

(04-16-2009 09:12 PM)CalallenStang Wrote:  How many stages are there in this nation that Obama could have chosen to give his speech from? If he felt that the setting offered by the stage at Georgetown were inappropriate, why didn't he go and give his speech somewhere else?

Don't ask a private religious university to secularize itself...if you don't like it, there are plenty of other choices of venues.

If he wanted to give a speech at a D.C. area university, just look at the choices: GWU, George Mason, U of Maryland, Howard, Galludet, etc. etc. etc.

Gentlemen, we have a winner.
+1

(04-17-2009 08:19 AM)TopCoog Wrote:  Obama is a squirl that should not be respected by anyone. After 43 presidents we finally managed to put an unqualified toad in office.

Why do you hate America? I'm down with Obama and think he's doing a fine job. I don't agree with everything and I'm not going to but he has done some things since being in office that I'm satisfied with. At the end of his term, I'll reevaluate and decide then whether he has made the right decisions but I gotta tell you... The way the GOP is running business these days, there's no way I can associate with them. Talk about some hateful, bitter people. Maybe they'll stir up a candidate I like but it's doubtful.

Doesn't change the fact we (well, y'all) DID put an unqualified toad in office. Sure enough, we'll evaluate him on his body of work after his 4 years are up.

(04-17-2009 08:32 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(04-16-2009 09:12 PM)CalallenStang Wrote:  How many stages are there in this nation that Obama could have chosen to give his speech from? If he felt that the setting offered by the stage at Georgetown were inappropriate, why didn't he go and give his speech somewhere else?

Don't ask a private religious university to secularize itself...if you don't like it, there are plenty of other choices of venues.

If he wanted to give a speech at a D.C. area university, just look at the choices: GWU, George Mason, U of Maryland, Howard, Galludet, etc. etc. etc.

Gentlemen, we have a winner.
+1

Yep, Obama was in charge of setting up the stage.

(04-17-2009 08:32 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(04-16-2009 09:12 PM)CalallenStang Wrote:  How many stages are there in this nation that Obama could have chosen to give his speech from? If he felt that the setting offered by the stage at Georgetown were inappropriate, why didn't he go and give his speech somewhere else?

Don't ask a private religious university to secularize itself...if you don't like it, there are plenty of other choices of venues.

If he wanted to give a speech at a D.C. area university, just look at the choices: GWU, George Mason, U of Maryland, Howard, Galludet, etc. etc. etc.

Gentlemen, we have a winner.
+1

All Georgetown had to do was to say, NO and the speech would had been moved somewherelse.
Im a christian but I do know that many other americans are not and dont expect my elected officials to have to be or display christian images. Politics and Religion do not mix, we have seen too many politicans wrap themselves around religion while in reality being some of the biggest scumbags around.
As for Obama, he has been in office for 100 days and the right wingers are going berserk on any of his moves even small idiotic ones such as this one. Yet for the past 8 years all we heard from the same group was that Liberals are thin skinned and had a knee jerk reaction about anything Bush did. Well it looks to me that the anti-Obama crying and end of the world scenario has started pretty early for most republicans.
If ANY governor of a state had said anything about seceding while Bush was in office, they would had been labeled traitors to this country and would had been the headlines of Fox News and every conservative radio host would had been asking for his head.

How dare Obama try to appeal to the wider audience of America. The thought is horrendous!

(04-17-2009 08:27 AM)PGPirate Wrote:  

(04-17-2009 08:19 AM)TopCoog Wrote:  Obama is a squirl that should not be respected by anyone. After 43 presidents we finally managed to put an unqualified toad in office.

Yeh...being Obama is in office for less than 100 days

James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Franklin Pierce, William Henry Harrison, Warren G. Harding, Millard Fillmore and George W. Bush was SOOOOOO much better

Pirate, You could literally pull someone off the street at random and get more talent than this guy has. The guy got into harvard through an affirmative action program. Hell, they will not even release his college records. We cannot afford these silly utopian dreamers who could mess up a wet dream. This is what happens when you have a Republican form of government where half the population is raised on rap music and American Idol.

(04-17-2009 06:28 AM)Eagle in the gym Wrote:  

(04-17-2009 12:28 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  

(04-17-2009 12:02 AM)shyminer Wrote:  any country without GOD in it, is in trouble.

If you guys are going to bring god on this site, I am gonna have to hit you with some honest truth. IF there is a god, and that is a mega IF, then we likely have zero understanding of this higher power.

Not only that but any religion that humans have grasped onto is based on hope/wishful thinking. Meaning even if there is a god any religion we have is likely way off base.

The USA is the only 1st world country left where religion plays a major role. Saying that, even the USA is becoming more agnostic/aetheist as time goes on and people get more educated (according to recent polls). The only places where religion is expanding are 3rd world countries where literacy tends to be low.

Because religion/christianity is a stabilizer, assist with charitable efforts, and is overall a good thing in the community does not mean it =truth.

I suggest some of you study the universe, space, beyond, Stephen Hawking, and listen to Dust in the Wind and realize what insignificant genetic mutations we are in the grand scheme of life, space, time, and the vastness of it all.

I remember hearing an insane stat on The Universe on the history channel. The closest star that you can see in the sky if you took the fast transport to get there (a space shuttle going 20,000mph) and went at a constant rate.

It would take approximately 10,000 years to get there. Thats prepyramid fellas. What does that mean? It means we are likely insignificant and were are a bermuda like outlier even within the Milky Way.

An honest truth is that the Bible has had zero of it's truths dispelled - despite scholars trying since Moby Dick was a minnow. The top minds like Einstein couldn't find their way home in the dark, either, so that doesn't mean I want to drive around lost to appear like "I'm with them." Sad.

So you believe in the bible literally? Are you aware almost ever highly educated biblical scholar/theologian now views the Old Testament as almost entirely symbolic. I'm not referring to your podunck pastor which represents most of red state america and went to some hole in the wall bible college if it all.

The onus is not on people to disprove the bible, it's on people to prove the bible. Historically, I think the new testament is a fairly accurate historical record in some spots. However the miracles....

What language do you think the bible was first written in, without googling?

(04-17-2009 09:33 AM)TopCoog Wrote:  

(04-17-2009 08:27 AM)PGPirate Wrote:  

(04-17-2009 08:19 AM)TopCoog Wrote:  Obama is a squirl that should not be respected by anyone. After 43 presidents we finally managed to put an unqualified toad in office.

Yeh...being Obama is in office for less than 100 days

James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Franklin Pierce, William Henry Harrison, Warren G. Harding, Millard Fillmore and George W. Bush was SOOOOOO much better

Pirate, You could literally pull someone off the street at random and get more talent than this guy has. The guy got into harvard through an affirmative action program. Hell, they will not even release his college records. We cannot afford these silly utopian dreamers who could mess up a wet dream. This is what happens when you have a Republican form of government where half the population is raised on rap music and American Idol.

LOL. and we all know that Bush got into Yale because of his high academic achievements.

BRAIN WASHED IDIOTS. What ever is going on with America right now is what Bush left you. He needs to be under investigation. He left us with Iraq. A longer war than Vietman. He left us with problems that I do not feel can be corrected in 4 years. Taxes now are ones he put in place. Some of you need to be praying Obama has some success.

oasispirate Wrote:The onus is not on people to disprove the bible, it's on people to prove the bible.

People do not have to prove their beliefs to others. Neither side has to "prove" anything (not that either one can really be proven or disproven beyond a shadow of a doubt). People are free to believe whatever they want. If Christians are wrong...oh well, everyone's just worm food, and that's the end of it. If Atheists are wrong, however, well, they have a slightly bigger down side.

Your conversion method of "Look at these peoples' fancy degrees. They believe it, so you should too. If you don't, you're a stupid redneck" is no less off-putting than the so-called "Bible thumpers" chasing after you screaming "You're going to hell!" You might want to change your delivery if you want to gain any traction.

I don't understand why the hardcore evolutionists are so hell-bent (no pun intended) on convincing Christians that they are wrong. Do you think the world would be a better place if you could rid it of religions that generally (not including the extremists that exist in EVERY religion) encourages people to have high morals and help out others in need?

pinetownpirate Wrote:BRAIN WASHED IDIOTS. What ever is going on with America right now is what Bush left you. He needs to be under investigation. He left us with Iraq. A longer war than Vietman. He left us with problems that I do not feel can be corrected in 4 years. Taxes now are ones he put in place. Some of you need to be praying Obama has some success.

SCHIP and cap and trade are Bush's doings? That's news to me.

Bush had 8 years. Proof is in the the pudding. Worst President ever.

(04-17-2009 09:48 AM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

oasispirate Wrote:The onus is not on people to disprove the bible, it's on people to prove the bible.

People do not have to prove their beliefs to others. Neither side has to "prove" anything (not that either one can really be proven or disproven beyond a shadow of a doubt). People are free to believe whatever they want. If Christians are wrong...oh well, everyone's just worm food, and that's the end of it. If Atheists are wrong, however, well, they have a slightly bigger down side.

Your conversion method of "Look at these peoples' fancy degrees. They believe it, so you should too. If you don't, you're a stupid redneck" is no less off-putting than the so-called "Bible thumpers" chasing after you screaming "You're going to hell!" You might want to change your delivery if you want to gain any traction.

I don't understand why the hardcore evolutionists are so hell-bent (no pun intended) on convincing Christians that they are wrong. Do you think the world would be a better place if you could rid it of religions that generally (not including the extremists that exist in EVERY religion) encourages people to have high morals and help out others in need?

On the contrary, I think there are some very well educated christians out there. However the problem is Christianity tends to be represented by the literalist in this country. People think that every word of the bible is true yet have very limited knowledge on the history or orgins of the bible.

Why do people get to pick and choose when they agree/disagree scientific theory. It's basically like......hmmmm if it doesn't encroach on my religious philosophies then I agree with it, if it does I am dead set against it no matter how baseless.

Again I think Christians are an overwhelming force of good in this country. That said, they vote and keep us entirely to focused on BS 3rd and lower tier issues that are slowing the advancement of this country.

Abortion
Gay Marriage
Stem Cell research
etc

As if Christians don't use scare tactics themselves. You just told me that there is a high likelihood I'm going to hell. Thats the oldest in the book for conversion. Christians are constantly judging and telling others they are wrong.

In fact, most aetheist/agnostics cannot even express their views in this country without being looked down upon, especially in the south or midwest.

(04-17-2009 09:41 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  

(04-17-2009 09:33 AM)TopCoog Wrote:  

(04-17-2009 08:27 AM)PGPirate Wrote:  

(04-17-2009 08:19 AM)TopCoog Wrote:  Obama is a squirl that should not be respected by anyone. After 43 presidents we finally managed to put an unqualified toad in office.

Yeh...being Obama is in office for less than 100 days

James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Franklin Pierce, William Henry Harrison, Warren G. Harding, Millard Fillmore and George W. Bush was SOOOOOO much better

Pirate, You could literally pull someone off the street at random and get more talent than this guy has. The guy got into harvard through an affirmative action program. Hell, they will not even release his college records. We cannot afford these silly utopian dreamers who could mess up a wet dream. This is what happens when you have a Republican form of government where half the population is raised on rap music and American Idol.

LOL. and we all know that Bush got into Yale because of his high academic achievements.

On the contrary, Bush released his records and transcripts. You might remember in 2004 the Bush and Kerry records were both released and ole dumb Bush actually had a higher GPA than Kerry.
Obama in Europe: "I do not speak Austrian." This guy is an intellectual nit wit.

oasispirate Wrote:You just told me that there is a high likelihood I'm going to hell.

Uhhh, no I didn't. What are you talking about?

I said IF Christians turned out to be right and Atheists are wrong, there is a bigger downside for Atheists than if the opposite is true. Then I said that both sides' methods of trying to convert the other are repelling. I didn't say anything about you.

(04-17-2009 10:10 AM)TopCoog Wrote:  

(04-17-2009 09:41 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  

(04-17-2009 09:33 AM)TopCoog Wrote:  

(04-17-2009 08:27 AM)PGPirate Wrote:  

(04-17-2009 08:19 AM)TopCoog Wrote:  Obama is a squirl that should not be respected by anyone. After 43 presidents we finally managed to put an unqualified toad in office.

Yeh...being Obama is in office for less than 100 days

James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Franklin Pierce, William Henry Harrison, Warren G. Harding, Millard Fillmore and George W. Bush was SOOOOOO much better

Pirate, You could literally pull someone off the street at random and get more talent than this guy has. The guy got into harvard through an affirmative action program. Hell, they will not even release his college records. We cannot afford these silly utopian dreamers who could mess up a wet dream. This is what happens when you have a Republican form of government where half the population is raised on rap music and American Idol.

LOL. and we all know that Bush got into Yale because of his high academic achievements.

On the contrary, Bush released his records and transcripts. You might remember in 2004 the Bush and Kerry records were both released and ole dumb Bush actually had a higher GPA than Kerry.
Obama in Europe: "I do not speak Austrian." This guy is an intellectual nit wit.

(04-17-2009 10:13 AM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  

oasispirate Wrote:You just told me that there is a high likelihood I'm going to hell.

Uhhh, no I didn't. What are you talking about?

I said IF Christians turned out to be right and Atheists are wrong, there is a bigger downside for Atheists than if the opposite is true. Then I said that both sides' methods of trying to convert the other are repelling. I didn't say anything about you.

Which is essentially the you're going to hell "Pachals Wager" argument. I'm not trying to convert anyone. Like I said one of the major issues I have is that Christians tend to know very little about their faith yet will absolutely fight tooth and nail for it.

Very few Christians even know the first bible was written in Greek, the certain books of the bible were arbitrarly tossed out, what top theologians interpretations of the bible are (again most tend to accept their local poorly educated pastors literal version), or that bible was written many years after Jesus' death.

The onus of truth is absolutely on any religion. If I say there is a fire breathing monster that lives in the great lakes it is on me to provide proof for that claim.

BTW it's absolutely ridiculous to say if you believe in something then you're going to heaven, if you don't then you're going to hell. For starters you cannot force yourself to believe anything. You either buy it or you don't. I have a hard time believing any just god would need such belief to validate him/herself or want to close the door on the cynics.

(04-17-2009 10:24 AM)oasispirate Wrote:  

(04-17-2009 10:13 AM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  [quote=oasispirate]You just told me that there is a high likelihood I'm going to hell.

Uhhh, no I didn't. What are you talking about?

I said IF Christians turned out to be right and Atheists are wrong, there is a bigger downside for Atheists than if the opposite is true. Then I said that both sides' methods of trying to convert the other are repelling. I didn't say anything about you.
[/quot


Which is essentially the you're going to hell "Pachals Wager" argument. I'm not trying to convert anyone. Like I said one of the major issues I have is that Christians tend to know very little about their faith yet will absolutely fight tooth and nail for it.

Very few Christians even know the first bible was written in Greek, the certain books of the bible were arbitrarly tossed out, what top theologians interpretations of the bible are (again most tend to accept their local poorly educated pastors literal version), or that bible was written many years after Jesus' death.

The onus of truth is absolutely on any religion. If I say there is a fire breathing monster that lives in the great lakes it is on me to provide proof for that claim.

BTW it's absolutely ridiculous to say if you believe in something then you're going to heaven, if you don't then you're going to hell. For starters you cannot force yourself to believe anything. You either buy it or you don't. I have a hard time believing any just god would need such belief to validate him/herself or want to close the door on the cynics.

So you are are saying that god has some secular progressive vie of the world?