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A10 should restart FCS football
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esayem Offline
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Post: #1
A10 should restart FCS football
Now that it looks like Charlotte will be in FCS for some time, I think the A10 should act and reestablish an FCS league. Charlotte, Richmond, UMass, and Rhode Island are the core. I believe Fordham could make the move. I would ask Villanova, New Hampshire, and Maine to join for football only. UNH and Maine could say yes to be closer to the other New England schools. Dayton and Duquesne would need to add scholarships, I believe.
04-03-2009 01:21 PM
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Ninerballin Offline
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Post: #2
RE: A10 should restart FCS football
(04-03-2009 01:21 PM)esayem Wrote:  Now that it looks like Charlotte will be in FCS for some time, I think the A10 should act and reestablish an FCS league. Charlotte, Richmond, UMass, and Rhode Island are the core. I believe Fordham could make the move. I would ask Villanova, New Hampshire, and Maine to join for football only. UNH and Maine could say yes to be closer to the other New England schools. Dayton and Duquesne would need to add scholarships, I believe.

First of all, I don't know where you are getting this "looks like we will be in the FCS for some time."

If you are getting it from the Observer article about the FSLs, the economy is in a bad state, and with NO MARKETING, NO STADIUM DRAWINGS, & NOTHING BUT FAITH, We've already sold 25% of the FSLs.

While that might not be as high as we would like, given the fact that the economy is due to improve and there are quite a few people waiting to jump in when they see something of concrete value (a stadium drawing, a head coach, etc.), we will succeed and not veer far off from our initial ambitions.
04-05-2009 08:07 PM
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49RFootballNow Offline
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Post: #3
RE: A10 should restart FCS football
(04-05-2009 08:07 PM)Ninerballin Wrote:  
(04-03-2009 01:21 PM)esayem Wrote:  Now that it looks like Charlotte will be in FCS for some time, I think the A10 should act and reestablish an FCS league. Charlotte, Richmond, UMass, and Rhode Island are the core. I believe Fordham could make the move. I would ask Villanova, New Hampshire, and Maine to join for football only. UNH and Maine could say yes to be closer to the other New England schools. Dayton and Duquesne would need to add scholarships, I believe.

First of all, I don't know where you are getting this "looks like we will be in the FCS for some time."

If you are getting it from the Observer article about the FSLs, the economy is in a bad state, and with NO MARKETING, NO STADIUM DRAWINGS, & NOTHING BUT FAITH, We've already sold 25% of the FSLs.

While that might not be as high as we would like, given the fact that the economy is due to improve and there are quite a few people waiting to jump in when they see something of concrete value (a stadium drawing, a head coach, etc.), we will succeed and not veer far off from our initial ambitions.

The interview was an incredibly stupid idea on CHP's part considering the Disturber's anti-UNC Charlotte bias history. Nothing needed to be nor should have been said at this point. All your points are valid. We have already raised more for Niner athletics in three months than any other time in our history and in THIS environment. That was the real story a real newspaper would have printed.
04-05-2009 11:11 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #4
RE: A10 should restart FCS football
Just a thought since the A10 looks like the 6/7th best hoops conference.

Another option is getting six or seven CAA schools to split and move up to FBS with you. Add UMass and Temple and you have a pretty solid league. Check out this thread:

http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=337974
04-07-2009 06:36 PM
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gosports1 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: A10 should restart FCS football
All sport A10 INCLUDING FB
Charlotte
Dayton
Duquesne
Delaware
Fordham
UMass
Marist
URI
Richmond
Temple(drops level)

PATRIOT FB
Bucknell
Colgate
Georgetown
Holy Cross
Lafayette
Lehigh
Villanova

Colonial FB
Butler
Hofstra
James Madison
Maine
Northeastern
UNH
Towson
Valpo
William $ Mary
04-08-2009 03:28 PM
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Krocker Krapp Offline
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Post: #6
RE: A10 should restart FCS football
The A-10 has schools playing at too many different levels of football to form a cohesive conference and nobody is going to leave the CAA to start a new A-10 when the CAA is practically dominating the FCS football scene right now.

CAA UNDER A POTENTIAL SCENARIO (9/12)
Fordham / Hofstra
Delaware / Towson
George Mason (non-football) / James Madison
VCU (non-football) / William & Mary
Old Dominion / UNC Wilmington (non-football)
Charlotte / Georgia State

This version of things would have Fordham leaving the Patriot League if they decide to vote against scholarships and switching places, so to speak, with Northeastern, which has budget concerns.

A-10 UNDER A POTENTIAL SCENARIO (13)
Boston U (non-football) / Hartford (non-football)
St. Bonaventure (non-football) / Duquesne (football in NEC)
Temple (football in MAC)
St. Joseph's (non-football) / LaSalle (non-football)
Drexel (non-football) / George Washington (non-football)
Richmond (football in AEC) / St. Louis (non-football)
Dayton (football in PFL) / Xavier (non-football)

Here the A-10 would sit tight at 13 for a year or two following a Fordham departure to see what happens with Temple and a FCS level all-sports affiliation as well as St. Louis, Dayton, and Xavier.

AEC UNDER A POTENTIAL SCENARIO (7/10)
Maine / New Hampshire
Vermont (non-football) / Massachusetts
Rhode Island / Central Connecticut
Albany / Stony Brook
Binghamton (non-football) / UMBC (non-football)

JOINING FOR FOOTBALL ONLY (2): Richmond and Villanova

All of the Northeast public FCS schools would be in one league under this example while the two private AEC schools, Boston U and Hartford, would switch places with Massachusetts and URI.

PL UNDER A POTENTIAL SCENARIO (7/10)
Northeastern / Holy Cross
Army (football in FBS) / Marist
Colgate / Bucknell
Lehigh / Lafayette
Navy (football in FBS) / American (non-football)

STAYING FOR FOOTBALL ONLY (1): Georgetown

Fordham leaving would be a wake-up call to the Patriot League that they have to, at the very least, add some more schools to stay relevant even if academic standards are slightly lower.

MAAC UNDER A POTENTIAL SCENARIO (10)
Fairfield (non-football) / Albany (non-football)
Iona (non-football) / Manhattan (non-football)
Canisius (non-football) / Niagara (non-football)
St. Peter's (non-football) / Rider (non-football)
Loyola (non-football) / Mount St. Mary's (non-football)

Marist going to the Patriot League, if they are serious about keeping football, would give the MAAC a chance to focus exclusively on basketball. Mount St. Mary's would give Loyola a local rival.

NEC UNDER A POTENTIAL SCENARIO (6/10)
Bryant / Quinnipiac (non-football)
Sacred Heart / Wagner
LIU-Brooklyn (non-football) / St. Francis of NY (non-football)
Monmouth / Fairleigh Dickinson (non-football)
St. Francis of PA / Robert Morris

STAYING FOR FOOTBALL ONLY (1): Duquesne

Losing both Central Connecticut and Mount St. Mary's would allow the NEC to consolidate its footprint and shrink its membership numbers to a simpler 10. NJIT is stuck in the Great West unless the A-10 needs a 14th school after all.
04-19-2009 02:35 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #7
RE: A10 should restart FCS football
We all know the A10's bread and butter is basketball. Well, seven CAA schools are in position to break away from the CAA and add Charlotte, UMass, and Temple and not lose an NCAA tourney auto-bid. This would hurt the A10's basketball image. Replacing them with Hartford, Boston U, etc. would not help.

Charlotte would have to be the 15th school admitted into the CAA football league, and as an upstart that doesn't look good. If Fordham adds scholarships, they would be in the same position.

Dominating the FCS as a conference is really not that big of a deal since most schools have a chance to make the playoffs through auto-bids anyway. Plus, many schools would still play eachother for OOC strength of schedule. It is certainly not as important as FBS conference membership with bowl tie-ins. If the CAA schools broke away with plans to be FBS, that would definitely be of interest to Charlotte, UMass, and Temple. In addition to the CAA schools with high football aspirations, a few non-football, large enrollment public schools could add to the hoops RPI.

An A10 football league with the scholarship members, plus a few local schools would bring some solidarity, but the A10 seems to be content being a private school basketball league. Do you think it's a coincidence that there are ten private schools?
(This post was last modified: 04-20-2009 12:43 PM by esayem.)
04-20-2009 12:41 PM
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Krocker Krapp Offline
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Post: #8
RE: A10 should restart FCS football
My projections clearly have the CAA breaking in half and the football-only members forming their own conference. Therefore there would be no 15th school admitted to the CAA for football. Follow along more carefully. Georgia State will give the CAA eight full members with football. From there it is easy to envision the CAA "trading" Drexel to a basketball conference for another football program. I am not saying it will actually happen but that it is easy to envision. This would give the CAA a 9/12 alignment just like the Southern Conference.

SO-CON UNDER CURRENT SCENARIO (9/12)
Chattanooga / Western Carolina
Appalachian State / UNC Greensboro (non-football)
Elon / Davidson (football in PFL)
Furman / Wofford
Citadel / Charleston (non-football)
Georgia Southern / Samford

CAA UNDER A POTENTIAL SCENARIO (9/12)
Northeastern {or Fordham} / Hofstra
Delaware / Towson
George Mason (non-football) / James Madison
VCU (non-football) / William & Mary
Old Dominion / UNC Wilmington (non-football)
Charlotte / Georgia State

FOOTBALL-ONLY SCHOOLS OUT OF CAA (6)
Maine (basketball in AEC) / New Hampshire (basketball in AEC)
Massachusetts (basketball in A-10) / Rhode Island (basketball in A-10)
Richmond (basketball in A-10) / Villanova (basketball in Big East)

AEC SCHOOLS WANT A FOOTBALL HOME (2)
Albany (football now in NEC) / Stony Brook (football now in Big South)

NEC SCHOOL WISHING TO MOVE HIGHER (1)
Central Connecticut (currently in NEC)

Charlotte would be stupid to say no if such an opportunity ever came about because this type of CAA would be in a good position to move up to FBS on its own one day and would not require the formation of a new conference and all the headaches that go along with it. As for the A-10, if schools like Fordham, Charlotte, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island left on their own, there would be no choice but to replace them with schools like Drexel, Boston U, Hartford, and NJIT. Those would be the only "candidates" knocking on the league's door.
04-20-2009 11:25 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #9
RE: A10 should restart FCS football
And I am saying if the CAA kicked out the football-only members, UMass, Rhode Island, and Richmond would NOT leave the A10. They would either start an A10 football league with Fordham and Charlotte as the core, or they would be football only members somewhere else. They would NOT leave the A10 for an all-sports membership to the CAA either. Only way any schools leave the A10 would be for a new FBS conference. Reason: A10 > CAA, or any "new" Yankee conference.

There aren't any headaches to forming a new league, it's actually quite simple. Seven members of the CAA split off and add a few other schools with FBS aspirations, including the castaway Temple. They can actually retain their auto-bid to the dance.
(This post was last modified: 04-21-2009 09:56 AM by esayem.)
04-21-2009 09:51 AM
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49RFootballNow Offline
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Post: #10
RE: A10 should restart FCS football
I have no problem with your revised CAA as a football conference but to paraphrase our Athletic Director "Charlotte will not be leaving the A10 till our football program reaches FBS level", and I can guarantee you she's not talking Sun Belt Conference level FBS either.

Where ever UMass, Geo. Washington, Richmond and Xavier are playing basketball will be where ALL of our other sports besides football will be played till CUSA or whatever is left of it by then comes a court'n.
04-21-2009 09:57 AM
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Krocker Krapp Offline
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Post: #11
RE: A10 should restart FCS football
The big problem with the composition of the A-10 is what happens if the Big East splits? Xavier, Dayton, and St. Louis would be gone in an instant if invited to join the Catholic basketball schools. Temple could be invited to join the Big East football schools or else go to the MAC for all sports. At that point the A-10 would be down to 10 members. Plus there is the Fordham issue as they look to join the scholarship football ranks. Never say never. Schools which want the status quo should be pushing the CAA to expand and then split into two different nine-team conferences for football. It is easier for the CAA to administer two different leagues than to start an entirely new conference.

CAA ORIGINAL FOOTBALL CONFERENCE (8)
Northeastern {or Fordham}
Hofstra
Delaware
Towson
James Madison
William & Mary
Old Dominion
Georgia State

STAYING FOR FOOTBALL ONLY (1): Villanova (basketball in Big East)
MEMBERS WITH NO FOOTBALL (4): Drexel, George Mason, VCU, and UNC Wilmington

CAA AFFILIATE FOOTBALL CONFERENCE (9)
Maine (basketball in AEC)
New Hampshire (basketball in AEC)
Massachusetts (basketball in A-10)
Rhode Island (basketball in A-10)
Fordham (basketball in A-10) {or Central Connecticut (basketball now in NEC)}
Albany (basketball in AEC)
Stony Brook (basketball in AEC)
Richmond (basketball in A-10)
UNC Charlotte (basketball in A-10)

This would give the CAA the best of both worlds. It would have an 8/4 arrangement with its original members and keep them all together for football while still controlling an affiliate football conference due to the inability of the A-10 and AEC to come up with an enticing deal that would facilitate a real split. Crossover scheduling, probably two games per year, would eliminate a major headache for all 18 schools. The outdated basketball-first mentality of schools in the Northeast has to be pushed aside. Only when more of these administrators realize that football considerations need to come first and basketball should follow will there be any significant moves made in the region for any sports.
04-25-2009 06:05 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #12
RE: A10 should restart FCS football
That's good thinking. It seems more balanced than a north/south conference alignment too. I think someone else would be picked up before CCSU if Northeastern drops, though.
04-27-2009 04:59 PM
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49RFootballNow Offline
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Post: #13
RE: A10 should restart FCS football
(04-25-2009 06:05 PM)Krocker Krapp Wrote:  CAA ORIGINAL FOOTBALL CONFERENCE (6)

Delaware
Towson
James Madison
William & Mary
Old Dominion
Georgia State

STAYING FOR FOOTBALL ONLY (3):
Villanova (basketball in Big East)
UNC Charlotte (basketball in A-10)
Richmond (basketball in A-10)
MEMBERS WITH NO FOOTBALL (2): George Mason, and VCU


CAA AFFILIATE FOOTBALL CONFERENCE (9)
Maine (basketball in AEC)
New Hampshire (basketball in AEC)
Massachusetts (basketball in A-10)
Rhode Island (basketball in A-10)
Fordham (basketball in A-10) {or Central Connecticut (basketball now in NEC)}
Albany (basketball in AEC)
Stony Brook (basketball in AEC)
Northeastern
Hofstra

MEMBERS WITH NO FOOTBALL (2): Drexel, and UNC Wilmington

FIXED!
(This post was last modified: 04-28-2009 06:28 PM by 49RFootballNow.)
04-28-2009 06:23 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #14
RE: A10 should restart FCS football
That helps travel overall, but all you would have is UMass and UNH in the northern conference. Richmond would help by adding another tough team with Charlotte as a travel partner. I guess I could go either way.
04-29-2009 09:52 AM
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49RFootballNow Offline
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Post: #15
RE: A10 should restart FCS football
(04-29-2009 09:52 AM)esayem Wrote:  That helps travel overall, but all you would have is UMass and UNH in the northern conference. Richmond would help by adding another tough team with Charlotte as a travel partner. I guess I could go either way.

Football simply requires more people to attend the games. Being in a football conference with UMass does nothing to fill a stadium, ODU or Georgia St. on the otherhand might bring 2,000 to 4,000 to Charlotte. As an FSL holder I know I'm more apt to go to the Georgia Dome or coastal Virginia for an away game than Massachusetts or New Hampshire. Plus with 65 players + coaches + staff travel costs add up.
04-29-2009 10:23 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #16
RE: A10 should restart FCS football
Yep, sounds good to me.
04-29-2009 03:06 PM
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LastMinuteman Offline
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Post: #17
RE: A10 should restart FCS football
UMass isn't interested in an America East-like football conference. If we were, it'd already exist, because the other New England schools and the SUNYs would follow us wherever we go. The status quo remains because UMass wants it that way.

When looking at the seemingly troubling size of the CAA Football conference, you have to keep in mind the differences between FCS and FBS. You need a "superconference" to get any media attention in FCS, let alone TV deals. Splitting the conference would take both halves below the threshold where they'd be attractive to TV even if they gave their broadcast rights away for free. Also, nobody cares about the unbalanced scheduling leading to a disputed conference champion, because we have a playoff system. And with 62.5% of the at large bids going to the CAA, nobody cares that we only have 1 AQ. There are only 4 other FCS conferences that take football seriously, so the CAA is never going to be a 1 bid league, especially with the playoffs expanding from 16 to 20 in 2010. If the 20 team playoff system had been in existence these past two years, the CAA would have had 6 teams in the playoffs both times, meaning half the conference. There is simply no downside to this arrangement. Not even travel. If you took away our one long distance trip per season in the CAA, we'd just have to replace it with another long distance trip, because we already play everyone worth playing who is nearby. So I expect the 14 member conference to hold together. A 15th member would have to barge its way in to cause a breakup, which means one of the non-football schools in the CAA would need to add football, because anyone else would be subject to a 75% approval vote of all CAA Football members (not just full CAA members).

Finally, I have to repeat what I've said elsewhere, which is that the A10 is a hopeless platform for a football conference. It simply cannot work. The 8 Catholic members (excluding Fordham) + George Washington will not allow it. They spend all their money on men's basketball basketball and put everything else on a shoestring budget. To them, football is the Great Satan, the biggest threat to their athletic relevance. There will be no A10 football. There will certainly be no A10 in FBS. It is a doomed conference, just waiting for the Big East to split and the guillotine to drop. Those of us who have serious ambitions (UMass, Temple, Charlotte and maybe URI) need to find a way out. No seeds planted here will grow.
(This post was last modified: 04-30-2009 12:24 PM by LastMinuteman.)
04-30-2009 12:22 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #18
RE: A10 should restart FCS football
Delaware, Old Dominion, Georgia State, James Madison, VCU, and George Mason + UMass, Temple, Charlotte, and Rhode Island = FBS conference that wouldn't have to wait for an auto-bid to the dance. Last Minuteman, get on the horn with your AD! 04-wine

At least seven schools that are fully-fledged members of Division I check
At least seven "core" members that have been in Division I for at least eight years check
At least six "core" members that have been in the league for five years check (the first six listed)

I am sure if this happened a few schools would be dying to move into the football conference as affiliates. Although with my boy Buzz back at Appalachian State maybe they get full membership. The league would obviously have to wait a few years to get into top speed, but a few schools could play as FBS independents while waiting.

If this did happen, I would be interested in seeing if Fordham or Hofstra came up with the dough, I know they got it, to become a legit FBS school. :spongebob:
04-30-2009 02:53 PM
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49RFootballNow Offline
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Post: #19
RE: A10 should restart FCS football
(04-30-2009 12:22 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  UMass isn't interested in an America East-like football conference. If we were, it'd already exist, because the other New England schools and the SUNYs would follow us wherever we go. The status quo remains because UMass wants it that way.

When looking at the seemingly troubling size of the CAA Football conference, you have to keep in mind the differences between FCS and FBS. You need a "superconference" to get any media attention in FCS, let alone TV deals. Splitting the conference would take both halves below the threshold where they'd be attractive to TV even if they gave their broadcast rights away for free. Also, nobody cares about the unbalanced scheduling leading to a disputed conference champion, because we have a playoff system. And with 62.5% of the at large bids going to the CAA, nobody cares that we only have 1 AQ. There are only 4 other FCS conferences that take football seriously, so the CAA is never going to be a 1 bid league, especially with the playoffs expanding from 16 to 20 in 2010. If the 20 team playoff system had been in existence these past two years, the CAA would have had 6 teams in the playoffs both times, meaning half the conference. There is simply no downside to this arrangement. Not even travel. If you took away our one long distance trip per season in the CAA, we'd just have to replace it with another long distance trip, because we already play everyone worth playing who is nearby. So I expect the 14 member conference to hold together. A 15th member would have to barge its way in to cause a breakup, which means one of the non-football schools in the CAA would need to add football, because anyone else would be subject to a 75% approval vote of all CAA Football members (not just full CAA members).

Finally, I have to repeat what I've said elsewhere, which is that the A10 is a hopeless platform for a football conference. It simply cannot work. The 8 Catholic members (excluding Fordham) + George Washington will not allow it. They spend all their money on men's basketball basketball and put everything else on a shoestring budget. To them, football is the Great Satan, the biggest threat to their athletic relevance. There will be no A10 football. There will certainly be no A10 in FBS. It is a doomed conference, just waiting for the Big East to split and the guillotine to drop. Those of us who have serious ambitions (UMass, Temple, Charlotte and maybe URI) need to find a way out. No seeds planted here will grow.

Good points I had not considered. What does the CAA TV Contract look like? I am very curious how my Niners will get on TV at FCS level. I am quite concerned, given the size of the CAA and statements against the Niners by the Big South Commissioner, that we will have to go Independent in FCS. That doesn't worry me if we can stick to our stated goal of FBS as soon as possible but if thats past 6 years in FCS then Independent starts to worry me. Would love to play in the CAA but with it being 14 already.............

As for basketball and the BE split, I think such a split is more than a decade away. The new ESPN contract is lucrative and if they split, any new contract for either side, basketball wise, would be less attractive.
04-30-2009 02:53 PM
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LastMinuteman Offline
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Post: #20
RE: A10 should restart FCS football
Speaking strictly as to conference television packages, the totals for the major FCS conferences were:

CAA: 21 conference games televised on the Comcast Networks
Southland: 9 games total on various regional stations
SoCon: 8 games on SportSouth
MVC: 5 games on FSN Midwest
Big Sky: 0 games

Those numbers are strictly for in-conference games, and exclude independent deals between the universities and local stations, which is how the Big Sky handles all of their games because Montana wants total control over its broadcast rights. I would expect independent deals to be a challenge for Charlotte though, given that they are in a pro sports market with popular FBS teams as well. Ask Temple what it was like trying to get on TV in Philadelphia when they were independent. And that's a FBS program.

Anyway, with the exception of the CAA's and maybe the SoCon's deal, the conferences eat the production costs of their broadcasts, so for most it ends up being a money loser for the sake of exposure. Hence the small number of games. The CAA has never issued a statement about the dollar value of their deal, but I've overheard the UMass AD say that they do make some revenue from it but not much. We're probably talking 5 digit figures. But at least it's money coming in instead of money going out. I mean be honest, how many FCS games does the casual fan watch per year? Even the National Championship game draws ratings similar to bottom tier Bowl games. It's just really difficult to sell FCS games. That's a big part of why the CAA isn't in a hurry to reduce its market spread by splitting up. It might even justify expanding to 16 at some point, though I personally think an 8 game conference schedule in a 16 member conference looks really bad. That's a NFL-like ratio.
(This post was last modified: 04-30-2009 05:48 PM by LastMinuteman.)
04-30-2009 05:47 PM
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