I wanted to make Post No. 5000 something special.

It occurred to me as we were passing the accolades to Kevin Tiggs that there was something that truly bothered me about him.

It was that he was wearing No. 42, Tom Chilton's old number.

I'll admit Chilton was before my time and so while I fancy myself as a sports historian, I'm not that familiar with his accomplishments.

But I know this. A retired number is just that- it's retired. It is completely unethical to take it off the rafters because a JUCO player wants it.

When Barry Bonds signed with the San Francisco Giants in 1992, it was announced he would wear his godfather's number- the No. 24 of Willie Mays.

After all, he'd worn it in Pittsburgh (except for his rookie year when he wore 7) as a way to honor his godfather. The Say Hey Kid gave Bonds his approval; what better way for these two baseball legends to bond?

Except Giants fans revolted. The PR was just awful. YOU DON'T UNRETIRE A NUMBER!

Bonds- BARRY BONDS- who doesn't care at all what people think of him- quickly relented and said he'd wear No. 25 to honor his father instead.

With all due respect to Don Helman's report that Tiggs is a great guy who is always smiling, Tiggs has displayed less class and less appriciation for where he is at by wearing Chilton's number.

Joe Montana didn't demand the Chiefs unretire Len Dawson's No. 16 for him. No. 19 was good enough, and one wonders why an alternate number wasn't adequate for Tiggs.

But it seems to be a LONG pattern of the current administration not only saying everything is just great when they've taken a tumble- but to disassociate themselves with anything that happened prior to 2003 with the ETSU Bucs.

Examples-

A- Dropping football. Obviously.

B- Mullins saying "2007 was the greatest year in the history of ETSU sports."

C- The BFFF not being allowed to bring Mike Smith on campus.

D- Bartow's unfortunate “If you look at the history of our program, not many teams have been 7-3 after their first 10. Maybe five teams in 50 years" quote when there were 16 teams that had done it.

E- Tearing down a baseball field named after James Mooney and replacing it with a soccer stadium.

F- Wylsie Bishop continually saying ETSU had won a National Championship in rifle when they'd finished second during the talks about restoring football.

G- ETSU not contacting a former player or assistant coach for the press release on John Robert Bell when the great coach passed. Having Mullins give the quote was a supreme insult as he pushed his face where it clearly didn't belong.

Again, if ETSU goes to the play-in game, I can already hear it.

"Well, the 1989 Bucs would have been in the play-in game."

Which is a backhanded compliment if I have ever heard one!

I really do wonder about this stuff. Like Gold, I wonder why retired numbers aren't hung from the rafters. I wonder why there seems to be such a disconnect with the 1968 Sweet 16 team.

The 1989-92 Bucs are often spoken of, but the 1968 team isn't. You can say that's because it was 41 years ago; it is still like Packers fans having a disconnect to the Lombardi era.

Read between the lines and "Winning the Right Way" becomes WINNING OUR WAY.

Am I the only one who senses this? Who is outraged by it?

And are there any other examples posters can give of the current ETSU Brass not just seperating themselves from ETSU history, but downright insulting it?

Pitt,


This may be your most thought provoking post yet.

I agree with Gold. Pitt speaks the TRUTH.

You are right, Pitt.

Others have noticed it.

I think of ETSU as I would a friend who has died. I have fond memories ... and I miss it.

But the ETSU in existence today doesn't resemble the school I attended.

There's nothing to draw me back. People can get on you all they want about not attending the games now. But the truth is that it is too sad to attend an ETSU game. Too many good memories. Why ruin them with the experience that is ETSU today.

I've seen them on tv. I've seen the crowd. It reminds me of attending a game at a lower division school. Too sad. I'd rather remember the good times.

(03-04-2009 10:32 AM)kevster Wrote:  There's nothing to draw me back.

What is drawing you to this message board then? If you dislike ETSU so much, why do you come over here to follow what is going on?

(03-04-2009 10:32 AM)kevster Wrote:  People can get on you all they want about not attending the games now.

OK, I will...

I have heard this mentality voiced by several fans, and I just don't get it. To me, its the sporting equivalent of the No Child Left Behind Act.

Basically, if the grades/success of a school aren't up to par, they CUT funding. And we all know that cutting funding helps so much and does so much good.

The same scenario applies here. You aren't happy with the success/direction of the deparment and the (lack of) fan support, so you are not going to go either.

Sounds like a spoiled kid that isn't getting its way, so the kid pouts, throws a little tantrum, packs up his toys, and leaves.

The only thing you are succeeding in is creating one more empty seat in the Dome.

To me one of the worse things about the current situation at ETSU is the treatment of alumni.

Almost two years ago the administration allowed the "then" students to vote to determine the future of the university's football program. Now, two years later, many of those students have either dropped out or are gone. Yet their vote continues to haunt us. If we are going to go by student ballots, should we not hold a football vote at least every 2-4 years?

My family and I have made monetary donations to the university for over 30 years. Our total contributions are much, much more than a current student would pay in athletic fees over 4 years, but we had no say and continue to have no say in many things that happen at ETSU.

I continue to give to the university and always will but I now also give more to another university. I have many friends and neighbors who are state grads, but you would never know it. The easiest thing to do is look the other way and pull for another school as I now do in football season.

I don't know if the things reported about Coach Smith not being welcome are true. I hope they are not. I guess we will know more as the event approaches. I can't imagine any university not valuing it's alumni and being successful in the long run. A university should go "out of its way" to accommodate any alumni group, as the good ones do.

(03-04-2009 12:53 PM)ETSUfan1 Wrote:  

(03-04-2009 10:32 AM)kevster Wrote:  There's nothing to draw me back.

What is drawing you to this message board then? If you dislike ETSU so much, why do you come over here to follow what is going on?

Funny, I don't remember mentioning disliking the school. I believe I said I missed my school.

I still get asked to come to good ol' ETSU and teach for a day a couple of times a year. I do it, but feel no connection to it. It wasn't that way a few years back.

Things change. You should be at UT for a football or basketball game. I didn't even go to UT, though I teach there from time to time. The atmosphere around the alumni is exhilarating before and after an athletic event. It brings back great memories of days gone by for them.

What brings those memories to alumni of ETSU? 02 can spout off all he wants about how things now are comparable to the past. It's not comparable to the many years I spent attending and working at ETSU. There's not even a football team. How's that comparable?

I have as much right to express my views as anyone. When I teach at UT-Martin, Chattanooga or Middle Tennessee, I see their students excited about upcoming football and basketball games. Do you get that feel around ETSU?

That's why I'm here. I suspect others are here for the same reason.

ETSU will be here long after this administration is past. Things will change. I'm confident of that. I've even spoken to administration at ETSU and been told privately how much sports are missed on campus ... but no one dare say it publicly. It's a sad time for ETSU. It will get better. I've finally been around long enough to know that.

(03-04-2009 01:16 PM)EastTennesseeState Wrote:  If we are going to go by student ballots, should we not hold a football vote at least every 2-4 years?

Not only that, but then the question arises- if the students bring it back- will there be another vote four years later to see if the team should continue to exist?

The student vote was a bad idea all the way around.

It was a way for Paul Stanton to pass the buck so its not his fault anymore. I guess that helps him sleep better at night.

Plus, Fan1, who can resist talking to me and my infinite wisdom?

You wanted to be the MODERATOR of my domain, it meant so much to you to read what I had to say.

Now, on to staying at home.

I agree with it.

When football was dropped, ETSU tried to spin the "nobody cares" mindset by saying "basketball season tickets have not dropped at all!"

What they didn't say is they didn't gain, either. And after an NCAA Tournament season that's unthinkable.

But the point was that they were able to spin that fans supported the move because attendance didn't take a hit.

And you want us to keep going, blindly, and line the pockets of Mullins and Stanton?

I have always thought one of the reasons the Chicago Cubs never win is because to their fans, winning is secondary. It's all about a "beautiful day in the sun" and singing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" and embracing a loser.

Which they have done. So management does not need to produce a winner.

I'm a Pirates fan. The same thing there applies. With PNC Park, attendance is higher than ever. Fans go to the game for the atmosphere. If the Bucs win it's incidental. Ads promoting the team actually begin "It's all about the food [at the ballpark]!"

As opposed to the pennant race or putting a good team on the field, which was why fans went to the games prior to PNC Park.

The only way to force a change is to stay at home. It's not by sending the players emails (sorry 2002 and Gold. Nothing personal), it's not by trying to tell me the A-Sun is ranked only two spots behind the So Con in some rankings system or to try to equate the two leagues, it's not by saying how wonderful Fred Warren is, it's not by pretending the coach is significantly holding the program back and that his wife is virtuous by running of a cheerleader who worked as a waitress, it's not by attacking fans for not wanting to line the pockets of those who have betrayed him so he can be told by some guy in a sweater vest to sit down-

THE ONLY WAY TO FORCE CHANGE IS TO STAY AT HOME!

Please spare me that this somehow betrays the players. The players at ETSU have said they liked moving to the A-Sun because now they can miss more class. The players have shown no respect for the program they play for by wearing retired numbers.

I ask to those who say we should attend the games, should I also give money to the athletic department? I mean donations.

Should I give $1,000- $2,000- $10,000 to the athletic program to give to David Mullins and Paul Stanton to spend as they please?

No?

Then why should I give $10?

Why should I pay to say everything is fine when we know without a shadow of a doubt that is a lie?

(03-04-2009 07:21 PM)PittsburghBucs Wrote:  Plus, Fan1, who can resist talking to me and my infinite wisdom?

You wanted to be the MODERATOR of my domain, it meant so much to you to read what I had to say.

Now, on to staying at home.

I agree with it.

When football was dropped, ETSU tried to spin the "nobody cares" mindset by saying "basketball season tickets have not dropped at all!"

What they didn't say is they didn't gain, either. And after an NCAA Tournament season that's unthinkable.

But the point was that they were able to spin that fans supported the move because attendance didn't take a hit.

And you want us to keep going, blindly, and line the pockets of Mullins and Stanton?

I have always thought one of the reasons the Chicago Cubs never win is because to their fans, winning is secondary. It's all about a "beautiful day in the sun" and singing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" and embracing a loser.

Which they have done. So management does not need to produce a winner.

I'm a Pirates fan. The same thing there applies. With PNC Park, attendance is higher than ever. Fans go to the game for the atmosphere. If the Bucs win it's incidental. Ads promoting the team actually begin "It's all about the food [at the ballpark]!"

As opposed to the pennant race or putting a good team on the field, which was why fans went to the games prior to PNC Park.

The only way to force a change is to stay at home. It's not by sending the players emails (sorry 2002 and Gold. Nothing personal), it's not by trying to tell me the A-Sun is ranked only two spots behind the So Con in some rankings system or to try to equate the two leagues, it's not by saying how wonderful Fred Warren is, it's not by pretending the coach is significantly holding the program back and that his wife is virtuous by running of a cheerleader who worked as a waitress, it's not by attacking fans for not wanting to line the pockets of those who have betrayed him so he can be told by some guy in a sweater vest to sit down-

THE ONLY WAY TO FORCE CHANGE IS TO STAY AT HOME!

Please spare me that this somehow betrays the players. The players at ETSU have said they liked moving to the A-Sun because now they can miss more class. The players have shown no respect for the program they play for by wearing retired numbers.

I ask to those who say we should attend the games, should I also give money to the athletic department? I mean donations.

Should I give $1,000- $2,000- $10,000 to the athletic program to give to David Mullins and Paul Stanton to spend as they please?

No?

Then why should I give $10?

Why should I pay to say everything is fine when we know without a shadow of a doubt that is a lie?

Right...everyone staying home will really build the program. Geez where did they ever get this guy?

The question is where did they get the guy who cancelled football and put a tennis coach in charge of the entire athletic department?

Everyone staying home WILL rebuild the program.

Let us just say that after football was dropped, only 500 people a game went to see the Bucs men's basketball team.

Don't you think that would have sent a message?

But you'd rather eat the gruel that this administration gives you than hold out for a steak.

See new topic- "ISN'T IT TELLING" to continue this subject.

Your wrong Pitt. The ETSU administration would just accept it and we would go even father into the Division I cellar. You've got to remember who is running things over there.

Two thoughts-

First- while I'm sure the PR lines would continue, it would be harder to just continue to pull the wool over people's eyes. You would have more talk show discussion and the like.

The Pittsburgh Pirates once fired a very popular broadcaster, Bob Prince. It was a terrible PR move but they stuck with it, even as Prince got a job as the lead announcer at ABC, started doing all kinds of side gigs around town, tried to BUY THE PIRATES with Stan Musial (betcha didn't know that!), etc.

Finally they had to relent and bring him back. They just needed the bad blood to go away.

It would be very difficult in that situation for even a non-athletic member of the staff to want to keep Paul Stanton aboard through budget cuts if his highest profile budget cut was a failure not to just old ETSU football fans- but to the public at large.

Right now, I heard on the Morning Monster a few days ago that Bud and Bobby didn't even know why ETSU was IN the A-Sun and not the Southern. HELLO!

Five hundred in the stands, and people are saying "I'll tell you what killed that program- it was when they dropped football."

But here, and only in a bad sports town would this happen, they just say "it had to go" and leave it at that. They don't see the other side of the coin on the "basketball attendance is the same as before we dropped football!" statement of 2004- that it hasn't risen, either.

You couldn't give David Mullins a contract extension under these circumstances, that's for sure.

The other thing- we're all awaiting a new president who we hope will be athletics minded. Obviously.

But let's say he is- and he inherits Mullins and the like- which he would figure to do.

And Mullins will tell the guy that it's better here now than ever before.

And if you're drawing 4,000, a new President may very well blindly accept that, especially from a guy who has been at the school for 20 years.

But if you're drawing 500, he doesn't.