Cato Institute Event and podcast. (I don't see a transcript available online).

Fo's new favorite website (For RobertN's benefit there is a "translation" tab, which I presume translates coherent arguments into language that he and other whacked out drug users can relate to).

All of the other drug war stuff is a minor nuisance in comparison to what's happening now in Mexico. This has the potential of bringing down the Mexican state (our third largest export market). We may have to stop talking about illegal immigration and start talking about refugees.

This issue is almost certainly the most important foreign policy issue that this administration will face. Getting mired deeply in giving Hamas in Gaza hand jobs certainly doesn't rate up there with this, but appears to be Obama's bid for a legacy issue.

edit: jI'm still listening to the presentation, but one of the presenters said (paraphrasing) "My Libertarian friends think I'm secretly a liberal, my liberal friends think I'm secretly a Libertarian, and the LaRouchites doing the song and dance out front think I'm secretly the illegitimate child of Queen Elizabeth and George Soros". ... anyone who's been exposed even a little bit to the peace/anarchist/communist/community-activist/LaRouchite protest culture unholy alliance has got to appreciate how funny that is...

Yep...We have propagated the drug cartels by our prohibition policies.
The evidence the prohibition creates a violent black market is pretty obvious..to everyone but politicians.

I agree...This problem is serious. I predict it will just empower the Law and Order types to just continue the same failed policies of interdiction and ever increase the impending police state. No one will address the real problems of prohibition until the violence spills out of control in the US.

Panic time - when admitting you're wrong really matters.

I still have such a strong disdain for recreational drugs - including tobacco and alcohol - that I'm reluctant to agree with legalization. But, that may be necessary soon.

I've always had a notion that maintaining them as illegal, but shifting a focus to disrupting the market as much as possible to make it an unprofitable business may be the best way to go. Seize drug shipments, but instead of incinerating them, store them and flood the market at a later date to try to force some cartels out of the market. Make enforcement unpredictable, arbitrary and at times downright malicious in order to make things expensive for the distributors (though I guess that's how we do things now, so it's not exactly an original idea). Do everything you can to undercut pricing for an extended period and then make things really expensive to produce and distribute (just like gasoline distribution). Regulate the bejesus out of the industry like Washington wants to do with every other industry. C'mon, our nation is currently just one huge laboratory of how to make businesses fail. Apply some of that knowledge to the recreational drug industry!

(02-26-2009 01:56 PM)I45owl Wrote:  Panic time - when admitting you're wrong really matters.

I still have such a strong disdain for recreational drugs - including tobacco and alcohol - that I'm reluctant to agree with legalization. But, that may be necessary soon.

I've always had a notion that maintaining them as illegal, but shifting a focus to disrupting the market as much as possible to make it an unprofitable business may be the best way to go. Seize drug shipments, but instead of incinerating them, store them and flood the market at a later date

Why not flood the market w/ placebos?

And why not just confiscate drugs but leave the street dealers. Then you can look past the 4th Amendment.

(02-26-2009 01:56 PM)I45owl Wrote:  Panic time - when admitting you're wrong really matters.

I still have such a strong disdain for recreational drugs - including tobacco and alcohol - that I'm reluctant to agree with legalization. But, that may be necessary soon.

I've always had a notion that maintaining them as illegal, but shifting a focus to disrupting the market as much as possible to make it an unprofitable business may be the best way to go. Seize drug shipments, but instead of incinerating them, store them and flood the market at a later date to try to force some cartels out of the market. Make enforcement unpredictable, arbitrary and at times downright malicious in order to make things expensive for the distributors (though I guess that's how we do things now, so it's not exactly an original idea). Do everything you can to undercut pricing for an extended period and then make things really expensive to produce and distribute (just like gasoline distribution). Regulate the bejesus out of the industry like Washington wants to do with every other industry. C'mon, our nation is currently just one huge laboratory of how to make businesses fail. Apply some of that knowledge to the recreational drug industry!

LMAO .... could you imagine going to the Druggie Discount Store and grabbing a Quick Kilo of Pure Uncut Cocaine for $14.99

Boy that would set some Central American shorts on fire double quick.

And then all those Legally Bought AR15's Americans get and send to the Drug Lords, would have to be brought out and used to take us down.

What a fantastic way to stop the American People from being both Drug Lords and buying those Pesky Assault Weapons.

Pistol Grips, Rail Systems, and Folding Stocks kill more people than any other attribute on a Weapon. (with all those great Features, you don't even need bullets in the gun)

.

(02-26-2009 01:56 PM)I45owl Wrote:  Panic time - when admitting you're wrong really matters.

I still have such a strong disdain for recreational drugs - including tobacco and alcohol - that I'm reluctant to agree with legalization. But, that may be necessary soon.

I've always had a notion that maintaining them as illegal, but shifting a focus to disrupting the market as much as possible to make it an unprofitable business may be the best way to go. Seize drug shipments, but instead of incinerating them, store them and flood the market at a later date to try to force some cartels out of the market. Make enforcement unpredictable, arbitrary and at times downright malicious in order to make things expensive for the distributors (though I guess that's how we do things now, so it's not exactly an original idea). Do everything you can to undercut pricing for an extended period and then make things really expensive to produce and distribute (just like gasoline distribution). Regulate the bejesus out of the industry like Washington wants to do with every other industry. C'mon, our nation is currently just one huge laboratory of how to make businesses fail. Apply some of that knowledge to the recreational drug industry!

Good points and parallels...+1 I don't know what going to happen but what Nixon started has really not worked. I favor decrim and control. Get rid of the black market. Stop putting people in jail cells for victimless crime. The risk of bringing black market drugs to the marketplace is the fuel of the violence...eliminate the risk and you eliminate the violence.

Being in a media market that's close to the border I read articles literally every day about the violence in Mexico. That place is more dangerous than Iraq. In one city the cartels announced they would kill a policeman every 2 days unless the chief stepped down, which he did. Mayors are getting killed. Entire police departments are quitting out of fear. The cartels are beheading members of other cartels, policemen and anyone else who gets in their way. The politicians and police are corrupt and so is the brass in the military. There were even stories about the cartels having a spy in Interpol. None of this would be happening if it were not for our obsession with drugs.

Mexican police are out gunned and rightfully complain about weapons from here making their way down there which then gives the druggies power. I've been hearing things about shutting down gun dealers near the border. What happens down there affects here and it's only going to get worse.

(02-26-2009 09:54 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Being in a media market that's close to the border I read articles literally every day about the violence in Mexico. That place is more dangerous than Iraq. In one city the cartels announced they would kill a policeman every 2 days unless the chief stepped down, which he did. Mayors are getting killed. Entire police departments are quitting out of fear. The cartels are beheading members of other cartels, policemen and anyone else who gets in their way. The politicians and police are corrupt and so is the brass in the military. There were even stories about the cartels having a spy in Interpol. None of this would be happening if it were not for our obsession with drugs.

Mexican police are out gunned and rightfully complain about weapons from here making their way down there which then gives the druggies power. I've been hearing things about shutting down gun dealers near the border. What happens down there affects here and it's only going to get worse.

Build walls?...Militarize the border?...Invade Mexico?...or...End the drug war? All are viable solutions to the problem. Judging from your comment about our obsession with drugs...I think you know what the best solution is.

(02-26-2009 10:04 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  ...I think you know what the best solution is.

Yup, mine fields and death rays.

(02-26-2009 10:49 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(02-26-2009 10:04 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  ...I think you know what the best solution is.

Yup, mine fields and death rays.

Add that to my list. Gators in moats...Soldiers in boats...Fence off the coast...Minutemen on post..all good ideas!

.

What I love about this Ridicules Loonacy, is that WE, the United States Citizens are being faulted for supplying Assault Weapons to a country with so many corrupt ties to the likes of Ugo-We-Go Chapass and the tons of other Communistic or Fascist Fundamentalistic Freaks who own thousands upon uber-thousands of Fully Auto M16's all the way up to Crew Serve Weapons and Heavy Artillery.

It is an absolute HOOT that this Fake Little god and his False Crew will try to use that as a Stumping Point for banning so-called Assault Weapons.

IF YOU ALL HAVEN'T BEEN TAUGHT YET ...... ALL WEAPONS ASSAULT THE VICTIMS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Putting a Collaspable Stock, a Pistol Grip, a Rail System, a 30 Round Magazine, a Bayonet Lug, a Flash Suppressor, a Fluted Barrel, or any other Foolish Add-On is NOT going to kill the Victim any deader or any faster.

If Common Sense were being used here and if you have had Military Training worth a spit, you will know it is the 'Heavy Barrel, Perfectly Sighted and Balanced, ONE-SHOT-ONE-KILL Weapons' that people prefer when they do it RIGHT.

Not the brain dead School Shooters that walk into a crowed hallway and start blasting away with some AK47 knock off.

And I will bet you my eyeballs that the Bayonet Lug and the Pistol Grip on the AK47 didn't kill one Human Being .... NOT ONE .... Didn't even INJURE ONE.

A good Remington 700 Rifle is way more dangerous than that AK47 if you mean to do some harm and not Suicide by Cop.

And they don't even have a Bayonet Lug ..... how does it kill anyone without a freggin Bayonet Lug ?????????





.

This was the mass email sent to students



Travel Alert
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Bureau of Consular Affairs

This information is current as of today, Fri Feb 27 2009 21:07:04 GMT-0700 (Mountain Standard Time).

Mexico

February 20, 2009

This Travel Alert updates security information for U.S. citizens traveling and living in Mexico. It supersedes the Travel Alert for Mexico dated October 15, 2008, and expires on August 20, 2009.

While millions of U.S. citizens safely visit Mexico each year (including thousands who cross the land border every day for study, tourism or business), violence in the country has increased recently. It is imperative that travelers understand the risks of travel to Mexico, how best to avoid dangerous situations, and whom to contact if one becomes a crime victim. Common-sense precautions such as visiting only legitimate business and tourist areas during daylight hours, and avoiding areas where prostitution and drug dealing might occur, can help ensure that travel to Mexico is safe and enjoyable.

Crime and Violence Throughout Mexico

The greatest increase in violence has occurred near the U.S. border. However, U.S. citizens traveling throughout Mexico should exercise caution in unfamiliar areas and be aware of their surroundings at all times. Mexican and foreign bystanders have been injured or killed in violent attacks in cities across the country, demonstrating the heightened risk of violence in public places. In recent years, dozens of U.S. citizens have been kidnapped across Mexico. Many of these cases remain unresolved. U.S. citizens who believe they are being targeted for kidnapping or other crimes should notify Mexican officials and the nearest American consulate or the Embassy as soon as possible, and should consider returning to the United States.

U.S. citizens should make every attempt to travel on main roads during daylight hours, particularly the toll ("cuota") roads, which generally are more secure. Occasionally, the U.S. Embassy and consulates advise their employees as well as private U.S. citizens to avoid certain areas, abstain from driving on certain roads because of dangerous conditions or criminal activity, or recommend driving during daylight hours only. When warranted, U.S. government employees are restricted from traveling to or within parts of Mexico without prior approval from their supervisors. When this happens, the Embassy or the affected consulate will alert the local U.S. citizen Warden network and post the information on their respective websites, indicating the nature of the concern and the expected time period for which the restriction will remain in place. U.S. citizen visitors are encouraged to stay in the well-known tourist areas of the cities. Travelers should leave their itinerary with a friend or family member not traveling with them, avoid traveling alone, and should check with their cellular provider prior to departure to confirm that their cell phone is capable of roaming on GSM or 3G international networks. Do not display expensive-looking jewelry, large amounts of money, or other valuable items.

Violence Along the U.S. - Mexico Border

Mexican drug cartels are engaged in an increasingly violent conflict - both among themselves and with Mexican security services - for control of narcotics trafficking routes along the U.S.-Mexico border. In order to combat violence, the government of Mexico has deployed troops in various parts of the country. U.S. citizens should cooperate fully with official checkpoints when traveling on Mexican highways.

Some recent Mexican army and police confrontations with drug cartels have resembled small-unit combat, with cartels employing automatic weapons and grenades. Large firefights have taken place in many towns and cities across Mexico but most recently in northern Mexico, including Tijuana, Chihuahua City and Ciudad Juarez. During some of these incidents, U.S. citizens have been trapped and temporarily prevented from leaving the area. The U.S. Mission in Mexico currently restricts non-essential travel to the state of Durango and all parts of the state of Coahuila south of Mexican Highways 25 and 22 and the Alamos River for U.S. government employees assigned to Mexico. This restriction was implemented in light of the recent increase in assaults, murders, and kidnappings in those two states. The situation in northern Mexico remains fluid; the location and timing of future armed engagements cannot be predicted.

A number of areas along the border are experiencing rapid growth in the rates of many types of crime. Robberies, homicides, petty thefts, and carjackings have all increased over the last year across Mexico generally, with notable spikes in Tijuana and northern Baja California. Ciudad Juarez, Tijuana and Nogales are among the cities which have recently experienced public shootouts during daylight hours in shopping centers and other public venues. Criminals have followed and harassed U.S. citizens traveling in their vehicles in border areas including Nuevo Laredo, Matamoros, and Tijuana.

The situation in Ciudad Juarez is of special concern. Mexican authorities report that more than 1,800 people have been killed in the city since January 2008. Additionally, this city of 1.6 million people experienced more than 17,000 car thefts and 1,650 carjackings in 2008. U.S. citizens should pay close attention to their surroundings while traveling in Ciudad Juarez, avoid isolated locations during late night and early morning hours, and remain alert to news reports. A recent series of muggings near the U.S. Consulate General in Ciudad Juarez targeted applicants for U.S. visas. Visa and other service seekers visiting the Consulate are encouraged to make arrangements to pay for those services using a non-cash method.

U.S. citizens are urged to be alert to safety and security concerns when visiting the border region. Criminals are armed with a wide array of sophisticated weapons. In some cases, assailants have worn full or partial police or military uniforms and have used vehicles that resemble police vehicles. While most crime victims are Mexican citizens, the uncertain security situation poses serious risks for U.S. citizens as well. U.S. citizen victims of crime in Mexico are urged to contact the consular section of the nearest U.S. consulate or Embassy for advice and assistance. Contact information is provided at the end of this message.

Demonstrations and Large Public Gatherings

Demonstrations occur frequently throughout Mexico and usually are peaceful. However, even demonstrations intended to be peaceful can turn confrontational and escalate to violence unexpectedly. Violent demonstrations have resulted in deaths, including that of an American citizen in Oaxaca in 2006. In 2008, a Mexican Independence Day celebration was the target of a violent attack. During demonstrations or law enforcement operations, U.S. citizens are advised to remain in their homes or hotels, avoid large crowds, and avoid the downtown and surrounding areas. Since the timing and routes of scheduled marches and demonstrations are always subject to change, U.S. citizens should monitor local media sources for new developments and exercise extreme caution while within the vicinity of protests. The Mexican Constitution prohibits political activities by foreigners, and such actions may result in detention and/or deportation. U.S. citizens are therefore advised to avoid participating in demonstrations or other activities that might be deemed political by Mexican authorities. As is always the case in any large gathering, U.S. citizens should remain alert to their surroundings.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw..._3028.html

"Master Exploder". That was such an awesome movie.

"I do not neeeed, a microphone.........my voice is f'n......BARITONE.............."