(02-21-2009 02:01 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(02-21-2009 01:27 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  It takes time. An all-sports conference would help build such rivalry ties. After all, the SEC has had 75 years to build such ties. The ACC's had 50. The Big East still hasn't, due to the hybrid nature of the conference. Unless we do something proactive for once, we never will...

Well, adding Memphis and East Carolina would be a great start. the other two can be determined at a later date.

I am starting to agree with you guys on Memphis, but a split isn't mandatory. Add them and St. Louis. Of course if I say anything about ECU I will be labled a blind hater, so whatever.

But 18 is waaay too big.

The prospect of losing 60 million + might well convince the FB schools that they can't stay. The FB schools have to each pay a $5 million dollar exit fee and forfeit their NCAA credits if the get out of free doesn't get extended. Unless that happens, the FB schools may feel the need to leave.

(02-22-2009 12:26 AM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  The prospect of losing 60 million + might well convince the FB schools that they can't stay. The FB schools have to each pay a $5 million dollar exit fee and forfeit their NCAA credits if the get out of free doesn't get extended. Unless that happens, the FB schools may feel the need to leave.

Either the 'get-out-of-jail-free' card has been extended, or else the BE football presidents don't envision a split in the near future. As far as we know, the deadline date for announcing the split is still June 30, 2009.

I think we would all be hearing things by now if they were seriously contemplating a split.

Cheers,
Neil

There really is no need for one. The scheduling isn't that big of a deal, there are plenty of schools to play. I am sure the MWC schools would love to play the Big East.

TV is starting to take an even bigger role in scheduling as well. WVU's series with Colorado, and the upcoming WVU-LSU series, were both signed with ESPN's help. I imagine they'll start doing a lot more of that, since they have the SEC locked up...

Dont forget USF-UM

Yep ESPN has a`LOT of power in college football

(02-21-2009 10:17 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The best reason for the split isn't monetary. That's the biggest headache about this. The reason we SHOULD split away is to help the football schools form lasting rivalries that will stand the test of time. Right now, there's nothing like that holding us together. Anyone in the conference could bolt at a moment's notice, if a better offer came along, because there is no real tie.

WVU and Pitt have been playing each other for over 100 years. But much of it came as eastern independents, and there wasn't as much on the line as there is in a conference race. Syracuse has long standing rivalries with both WVU and Pitt. I think their tie to Pitt is a lot stronger than the one to WVU, simply because they have a long history in the old Big East. But the football side of the equation has been on the back burner, simply due to the nature of The BEast.

The SEC has been around since 1933, and no crowbar known to man could pry one of those schools out of the conference, except maybe South Carolina or Arkansas, and that because they were late additions. Arkansas still has longstanding ties to their old SWC brethren. I'm not sure what ties South Carolina to anyone. But I don't think anyone else does either. But the original core of the SEC has an us against the world mentality that comes from long standing ties...

We don't have that, and never will under the current setup...

South Carolina's previous ties were with the ACC and were great until their concerns with the league were not met and they left. Sound familiar. The divorce was messy though - very nasty and messy. They won't be returning to the ACC soon if ever.

The ACC will never come up with a financial incentive big enough to lure South Carolina away from the SEC now...

I think the Big East is staying status quo for a while. Your not going to want to lose the Madison Square Garden tourney that is very successful. Going to 17 or 18 full time members is way too big.

The Big East would NOT lose the MSG even if it decided to split. you would probably see both leagues hold tourney there.
Its all about money and the MSG would not turn away a tourney that holds Cuse,UConn, Pitt, UL etc. no way

(02-21-2009 08:16 AM)frogman Wrote:  I think the bigger question is that if we were to split and form two 8 team conferences would each conference average four bids and the answer is clear. YES. Would the FB schools get five- like they have now: UCONN, PItt, Louisville, SYr and WVU. MAybe because the FB schools are still loaded for BB.

Basketball credits aren't it alone.
There's TV too. And most of the basketball TV contracts come from the marquee match-ups that the unbalanced 16-team monster allows. Why have Syracuse vs. USF twice a year when you can have Syracuse vs. Georgetown? That's money for the league.
In fact, that's the league's essence. Going back to the 80s, the Big East was a league of top-down basketball strength with loads of tradition. It's those marquee match-ups - multiple times each week - that gives the Big East its prestige. Think a 8-team league with USF and Rutgers gets as much press around the country? No, not when forced to actually pay attention that they're also in the league.
The 16-team league was formed to maintain that prestige while retaining its investments in football, namely the BCS bid. It's an amalgamation, and, really, no true split of 8-8 exists. So the league does its best to be all things to all parties adequately. Sorry if that's not good enough for some football zealots.

You don't think UConn, Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville, and WVU have marquee value?

rferry, you boggle the mind with such stupidity...

its funny he keeps pointing out an eight team league with RU and USF as not being TV friendly. So I guess Providence, Seton Hall and DePaul bring in lots of TV viewerships?

While also not pointing out that with less money there are also less mouths to feed.
what about seeing UConn-Cuse twice a year or all the other matchups that will now be twice a year rather than just once

(02-21-2009 10:40 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  It's because there are no real ties between us. Everyone is looking for the pot of gold, and nobody wants to share it...

There are very strong ties between the BB schools, Cuse (charter member), UConn (charter member), and Pitt ( I believe the first expansion member added to cross up Penn State' Eastern conference move and keep Cuse and BC in the BE fold). Now with ND (FB independent) a BB school, conference member for all other Olympic Sports, playing all three schools, the ties and the BOND are even stronger.

I went over that earlier, panite. Or did you not read the whole thread?

(02-22-2009 01:19 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The ACC will never come up with a financial incentive big enough to lure South Carolina away from the SEC now...

Messy divorce - neither wants anything to do with each other now. There isn't enough money to bring either side back to the alter right now.

(02-22-2009 01:45 PM)rferry Wrote:  Think a 8-team league with USF and Rutgers gets as much press around the country?

No but I think a 10 team league with a double round robin format would do fairly well. Imagine a schedule like this (from Louisville's perspective):

January 7 @ USF
January 10 WVU**
January 12 @ Pitt*
January 17 UConn*
January 21 @ Rutgers
January 25 Syracuse*
January 28 @ UMass
January 31 Memphis*
February 2 @ Cincinnati**
February 8 USF
February 12 @ WVU**
February 15 Pitt*
February 18 @ UConn*
February 21 Rutgers
February 23 @ Syracuse*
March 1 UMass
March 4 @ Memphis*
March 7 Cincinnati**

* denotes games that would definitely be broadcast on major TV network.
** denotes game that may be broadcast on major TV network

The above schedule would feature six top ten match ups, and eight top 25 match ups this season. Best part about a ten team league is that it allows for a double round robin in basketball (18 games) and a single, nine game round robin slate for football (altering 5/4 and 4/5 slate for football can be balanced with a D-IAA game).

(02-22-2009 01:58 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I went over that earlier, panite. Or did you not read the whole thread?

Must have missed it but at least you see the same point that I do then.

(02-22-2009 01:47 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  You don't think UConn, Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville, and WVU have marquee value?

rferry, you boggle the mind with such stupidity...

That's not what I said.
The value in a 16-team league is that you can highlight those match-ups, along with the ones vs. Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova, at the expense of the games vs. USF and Rutgers. You can hide USF and Rutgers in a 16-team league, you can't in a 8-team league. Try telling ESPN you would the same compensation and airtime when a fourth of your games feature one of those two. Not going to happen. That's why the league purposely has unbalanced schedule to maximize quality TV match-ups.

(02-22-2009 01:51 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  its funny he keeps pointing out an eight team league with RU and USF as not being TV friendly. So I guess Providence, Seton Hall and DePaul bring in lots of TV viewerships?

While also not pointing out that with less money there are also less mouths to feed.
what about seeing UConn-Cuse twice a year or all the other matchups that will now be twice a year rather than just once

This isn't a football schools vs. basketball schools thing. If you want to get in your shots at them, be my guest (especially at DePewl), but that's not the point. I used the football schools league as an example because the topic is, and always has been, football splitting off.

Look in a 16-team league, you have a 16 or 18 game schedule. And it's unbalanced so the stronger teams play the stronger teams more often. And the weaker teams play the weaker teams more often. You sell the former for big bucks. You throw the latter on ESPN syndication. The press covers the former and hypes the league as full of basketball talent. You hear how UConn or Pitt is tested every week. You wouldn't if they had to play more games against RU and USF