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US Federal obligations exceed world GDP of $65.5 trillion
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #1
US Federal obligations exceed world GDP of $65.5 trillion
Federal obligations exceed world GDP
Does $65.5 trillion terrify anyone yet?


Quote:Posted: February 13, 2009
11:35 pm Eastern


By Jerome R. Corsi

As the Obama administration pushes through Congress its $800 billion deficit-spending economic stimulus plan, the American public is largely unaware that the true deficit of the federal government already is measured in trillions of dollars, and in fact its $65.5 trillion in total obligations exceeds the gross domestic product of the world.

The total U.S. obligations, including Social Security and Medicare benefits to be paid in the future, effectively have placed the U.S. government in bankruptcy, even before new continuing social welfare obligation embedded in the massive spending plan are taken into account.

The real 2008 federal budget deficit was $5.1 trillion, not the $455 billion previously reported by the Congressional Budget Office, according to the "2008 Financial Report of the United States Government" as released by the U.S. Department of Treasury.

The difference between the $455 billion "official" budget deficit numbers and the $5.1 trillion budget deficit cited by "2008 Financial Report of the United States Government" is that the official budget deficit is calculated on a cash basis, where all tax receipts, including Social Security tax receipts, are used to pay government liabilities as they occur.


But the numbers in the 2008 report are calculated on a GAAP basis ("Generally Accepted Accounting Practices") that include year-for-year changes in the net present value of unfunded liabilities in social insurance programs such as Social Security and Medicare.

Under cash accounting, the government makes no provision for future Social Security and Medicare benefits in the year in which those benefits accrue.

"As bad as 2008 was, the $455 billion budget deficit on a cash basis and the $5.1 trillion federal budget deficit on a GAAP accounting basis does not reflect any significant money [from] the financial bailout or Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP, which was approved after the close of the fiscal year," economist John Williams, who publishes the Internet website Shadow Government Statistics, told WND.

"The Congressional Budget Office estimated the fiscal year 2009 budget deficit as being $1.2 trillion on a cash basis and that was before taking into consideration the full costs of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, before the cost of the Obama nearly $800 billion economic stimulus plan, or the cost of the second $350 billion in TARP funds, as well as all current bailouts being contemplated by the U.S. Treasury and Federal Reserve," he said.

"The federal government's deficit is hemorrhaging at a pace which threatens the viability of the financial system," Williams added. "The popularly reported 2009 [deficit] will clearly exceed $2 trillion on a cash basis and that full amount has to be funded by Treasury borrowing.

"It's not likely this will happen without the Federal Reserve acting as lender of last resort for the Treasury by buying Treasury debt and monetizing the debt," he said.

"Monetizing the debt" is a term used to signify that the Federal Reserve will be required simply to print cash to meet the Treasury debt obligations, acting in this capacity only because the Treasury cannot sell the huge of amount debt elsewhere.

The Treasury has been largely dependent upon foreign buyers, principally China and Japan and other major holders of U.S. dollar foreign exchange reserves, including OPEC buyers purchasing U.S. debt through London.

"The appetite of foreign buyers to purchase continued trillions of U.S. debt has become more questionable as the world has witnessed the rapid deterioration of the U.S. fiscal condition in the current financial crisis," Williams noted.

[Image: deficittwo.jpg]



"Truthfully," Williams pointed out, "there is no Social Security 'lock-box.' There are no funds held in reserve today for Social Security and Medicare obligations that are earned each year. It's only a matter of time until the public realizes that the government is truly bankrupt and no taxes are being held in reserve to pay in the future the Social Security and Medicare benefits taxpayers are earning today."

Calculations from the "2008 Financial Report of the United States Government" also show that the GAAP negative net worth of the federal government has increased to $59.3 trillion while the total federal obligations under GAAP accounting now total $65.5 trillion.

The $65.5 trillion total federal obligations under GAAP accounting not only now exceed four times the U.S. gross domestic product, or GDP, the $65.5 trillion deficit exceeds total world GDP.

"In the seven years of GAAP reporting, we have seen an annual average deficit in excess of $4 trillion, which could not be possibly covered by any form of taxation," Williams argued.

"Shy of the government severely slashing social welfare programs, federal deficits of this magnitude are beyond any hope of containment, government or otherwise," he said.

"Put simply, there is no way the government can possibly pay for the level of social welfare benefits the federal government has promised unless the government simply prints cash and debases the currency, which the government will increasingly be doing this year," Williams said, explaining in more detail why he feels the government is now in the process of monetizing the federal debt.

"Social Security and Medicare must be shown as liabilities on the federal balance sheet in the year they accrue according to GAAP accounting," Williams argues. "To do otherwise is irresponsible, nothing more than an attempt to hide the painful truth from the American public. The public has a right to know just how bad off the federal government budget deficit situation really is, especially since the situation is rapidly spinning out of control.

"The federal government is bankrupt," Williams told WND. "In a post-Enron world, if the federal government were a corporation such as General Motors, the president and senior Treasury officers would be in federal penitentiary."


http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=88851
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2009 07:56 PM by SumOfAllFears.)
02-14-2009 07:53 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #2
RE: US Federal obligations exceed world GDP of $65.5 trillion
Secession Anyone? I really don't feel obligated one damn bit to pay a penny of this debt. I have never consented or signed a damn thing that makes me liable for this sh!t. I pray for the collapse of the federal government and the end of it's tyranny. We are SOOOO F***ED!!!!03-banghead
02-14-2009 08:19 PM
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THE NC Herd Fan Offline
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Post: #3
RE: US Federal obligations exceed world GDP of $65.5 trillion
(02-14-2009 08:19 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Secession Anyone? I really don't feel obligated one damn bit to pay a penny of this debt. I have never consented or signed a damn thing that makes me liable for this sh!t. I pray for the collapse of the federal government and the end of it's tyranny. We are SOOOO F***ED!!!!03-banghead

Australia is starting to look better and better.
02-14-2009 09:08 PM
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Jugnaut Offline
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Post: #4
RE: US Federal obligations exceed world GDP of $65.5 trillion
(02-14-2009 08:19 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Secession Anyone? I really don't feel obligated one damn bit to pay a penny of this debt. I have never consented or signed a damn thing that makes me liable for this sh!t. I pray for the collapse of the federal government and the end of it's tyranny. We are SOOOO F***ED!!!!03-banghead

I would be very happy if the "South Rises Again" (without the slavery) 04-cheers
02-14-2009 09:48 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #5
RE: US Federal obligations exceed world GDP of $65.5 trillion
(02-14-2009 09:48 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  
(02-14-2009 08:19 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Secession Anyone? I really don't feel obligated one damn bit to pay a penny of this debt. I have never consented or signed a damn thing that makes me liable for this sh!t. I pray for the collapse of the federal government and the end of it's tyranny. We are SOOOO F***ED!!!!03-banghead

I would be very happy if the "South Rises Again" (without the slavery) 04-cheers

Yes....America is simply a large plantation. Anytime you are forced at the point of a gun to give up the fruits of your labor...you are essentially a slave. Having the ability to choose your master does not release you from your bondage.05-stirthepot
02-14-2009 10:11 PM
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Tripster Offline
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Post: #6
RE: US Federal obligations exceed world GDP of $65.5 trillion
(02-14-2009 08:19 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Secession Anyone? I really don't feel obligated one damn bit to pay a penny of this debt. I have never consented or signed a damn thing that makes me liable for this sh!t. I pray for the collapse of the federal government and the end of it's tyranny. We are SOOOO F***ED!!!!03-banghead

I am sorry Fo and I don't mean to do this to your reputation, but man you are sounding more and more like me everyday.

Yes, we are "SOOOO F***ED!!!!"

And there is no real way out at all.

No "Conspiracy Theory" here either ... just the truth and facts as you see them coming to life in front of your eyes.

.
02-14-2009 10:15 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #7
RE: US Federal obligations exceed world GDP of $65.5 trillion
(02-14-2009 10:15 PM)Tripster Wrote:  
(02-14-2009 08:19 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Secession Anyone? I really don't feel obligated one damn bit to pay a penny of this debt. I have never consented or signed a damn thing that makes me liable for this sh!t. I pray for the collapse of the federal government and the end of it's tyranny. We are SOOOO F***ED!!!!03-banghead

I am sorry Fo and I don't mean to do this to your reputation, but man you are sounding more and more like me everyday.

Yes, we are "SOOOO F***ED!!!!"

And there is no real way out at all.

No "Conspiracy Theory" here either ... just the truth and facts as you see them coming to life in front of your eyes.

.

Or maybe you are coming over to the "dark side" of an anti-government free market anarchocapitalist....03-lmfao...either way...Yes...we are being screwed without even getting kissed.04-cheers
02-14-2009 10:45 PM
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Jugnaut Offline
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Post: #8
RE: US Federal obligations exceed world GDP of $65.5 trillion
(02-14-2009 10:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(02-14-2009 09:48 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  
(02-14-2009 08:19 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Secession Anyone? I really don't feel obligated one damn bit to pay a penny of this debt. I have never consented or signed a damn thing that makes me liable for this sh!t. I pray for the collapse of the federal government and the end of it's tyranny. We are SOOOO F***ED!!!!03-banghead

I would be very happy if the "South Rises Again" (without the slavery) 04-cheers

Yes....America is simply a large plantation. Anytime you are forced at the point of a gun to give up the fruits of your labor...you are essentially a slave. Having the ability to choose your master does not release you from your bondage.05-stirthepot

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to make my house my own country, I just don't think they'll let me do it. Break up of the Fed Gov't would be pretty awesome though.

I really wish we kept the articles of confederation, it was a much better system.
02-14-2009 10:48 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #9
RE: US Federal obligations exceed world GDP of $65.5 trillion
(02-14-2009 10:48 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  
(02-14-2009 10:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(02-14-2009 09:48 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  
(02-14-2009 08:19 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Secession Anyone? I really don't feel obligated one damn bit to pay a penny of this debt. I have never consented or signed a damn thing that makes me liable for this sh!t. I pray for the collapse of the federal government and the end of it's tyranny. We are SOOOO F***ED!!!!03-banghead

I would be very happy if the "South Rises Again" (without the slavery) 04-cheers

Yes....America is simply a large plantation. Anytime you are forced at the point of a gun to give up the fruits of your labor...you are essentially a slave. Having the ability to choose your master does not release you from your bondage.05-stirthepot

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to make my house my own country, I just don't think they'll let me do it. Break up of the Fed Gov't would be pretty awesome though.

I really wish we kept the articles of confederation, it was a much better system.

I agree...It's pretty much proven that as soon as a any governmental system achieves "central planning"...it spirals out of control. I almost doubt that the AoC could have been held in check...but...I'd like to see if it could be done.04-bow
02-14-2009 11:24 PM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #10
RE: US Federal obligations exceed world GDP of $65.5 trillion
The Legislative, Executive and Judicial branch are trampling on the Constitution and it is Tyarany.
02-16-2009 01:11 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: US Federal obligations exceed world GDP of $65.5 trillion
So, let me get this straight... When we take all of our existing outstanding obligations, including those for which we won't actually have to pay for 1, 3, 10, or even 50 years... including the social security benefits for something upward of 250mm people, many of whom are MUCH younger than retirement age, we outstrip 1 year of global production? Wow... what an important measuring stick.

When will people realize that by calling the US technically bankrupt, which virtually every person who owns a home is, or has more than a 1 year lease on their apartment or a child or three in college may be.... ALL they do is numb people to the fact that we are spending beyond our means... I mean, if we're bankrupt, and we can still borrow, then what's the problem?? We are participating in the same "chicken little" game as the politicians... I mean, if wer're bankrupt, we need to hold hearings and create a department of bankruptcy oversight... it will cost 14 gazillion dollars, and I wrote the entire 900 page bill in 14 minutes, including the part about granting amnesty to carrots... and you have 3 minutes to vote yes on it, or I call you names in public.

This is not a cash country/economy... and hasn't been for some time... We build schools as part of a ten year plan, and fund them for 30 years or more (which is where the REAL problem is)... but what is wrong with funding something over its useful lifetime, rather than "cash"? If you want to be even remotely fair, you use those same black boxes that predict the expenses of SSI and eveything else, and estimate US GDP, and the tax revenue that results from that. You'll find that we're probably spending 25% of it... which is an ABSURD number by historical or (at least to most people) rational standards... but obviously not to everyone.

Having said that, I agree 100% that Congress is out of control with its spending... and that we're better off fixing the problems than pointing fingers... it is ALL a power play... oversight = money, money = power...

Show me a politician who votes to cut overall Federal spending, and I'll show you a politician with no hope of being elected. So WHOM is the idiot?
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2009 01:27 PM by Hambone10.)
02-16-2009 01:23 PM
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onlinepole Offline
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Post: #12
RE: US Federal obligations exceed world GDP of $65.5 trillion
[quote='SumOfAllFears' pid='3990578' dateline='1234659221']
Federal obligations exceed world GDP
Does $65.5 trillion terrify anyone yet?


[quote]
No because the data you posted from the wingnut who fed it to you includes expenditures going on for decades if not a century in the future. When you sign your mortgage note, you're on the hook for the entire principle and interest of the mortgage spread out over 30 years or whatever term you and the bank agree to. As long as you make the required minimum payment you aren't liable for the entire amount all now at once. That's what shoots your fear mongering full of holes. 03-lmfao
02-16-2009 05:59 PM
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Post: #13
RE: US Federal obligations exceed world GDP of $65.5 trillion
.

On "2nd Thought", I like this international infamy .... errr .... I mean honor and distinction !!!!!

After All, we have been slipping in respect and stature lately and now that we have a Real Kenyan Deity in "DA HOWZE", we are getting back to Being First in the World with 'things'.

And heck, Obami can just wave his wand over his Crystal Ball, bail us out with a $65.5 Trillion Dollar ReStimulated Package, then get the Federal Reserve to Print up a mere $66 Trillions worth of Fiat Paper, value it against our Strawberry Reserves, and bail us the F* out !!!!!!!

He is our "First Black President" and his finger is in your .... errr .... on your Pulse !!!!!

The "Rolled Up Sleeved Man of the Shepple .... errr .... People 04-rock

.
02-16-2009 06:30 PM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #14
RE: US Federal obligations exceed world GDP of $65.5 trillion
I got news for you loonytards, you may be making payments on that 30 year mortgage, but on the balance sheet, the total owed still shows as a liability. This article uses acceptable accounting principals.
02-16-2009 06:44 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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RE: US Federal obligations exceed world GDP of $65.5 trillion
(02-16-2009 06:44 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  I got news for you loonytards, you may be making payments on that 30 year mortgage, but on the balance sheet, the total owed still shows as a liability. This article uses acceptable accounting principals.

and when faced with honest dissention, the name calling starts.

You are accounting for a contingent liability. You don't know EXACTLY what you will owe because you can only estimate inflation, Congressional actions, and mortality and birth rates.

WHERE do you account for the NPV of the contingent asset? You know, the fact that you are still working?? Or in the case of the government, the PV of future GDP?

When you fill out your personal statement, you list your mortgage amount (not the total of the payments, but the current "cash buy out" value... AND the value of your home. In this example, we're listing the PV of the future payments (the current cash buy-out value)... but not the PV of our future income... and CERTAINLY not the "cash buy-out" value of our economy. In fact, the study instead lists some worthless number like the total amount earned by all the people on your block.

I'll call BS on this conforming to GAAP. PV of the future liabilities is certainly GAAP apvd, but failing to PV the assets and calling it a statement of financial condition is a lie.

You've got a $700,000/year job and a $1mm mortgage. In fact, the sum of all the incomes on your block is only $900,000/yr. (lots of retirees) Your debt is greater than the sum of the GDP on your block. Are you bankrupt? By this measure, you are. We don't even mention the fact that the liquidation value of your home is $5mm... but you're still broke, right?
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2009 10:05 AM by Hambone10.)
02-17-2009 10:01 AM
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Post: #16
RE: US Federal obligations exceed world GDP of $65.5 trillion
(02-17-2009 10:01 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  and when faced with honest dissention, the name calling starts.

You are accounting for a contingent liability. You don't know EXACTLY what you will owe because you can only estimate inflation, Congressional actions, and mortality and birth rates.

WHERE do you account for the NPV of the contingent asset? You know, the fact that you are still working?? Or in the case of the government, the PV of future GDP?

When you fill out your personal statement, you list your mortgage amount (not the total of the payments, but the current "cash buy out" value... AND the value of your home. In this example, we're listing the PV of the future payments (the current cash buy-out value)... but not the PV of our future income... and CERTAINLY not the "cash buy-out" value of our economy. In fact, the study instead lists some worthless number like the total amount earned by all the people on your block.

I'll call BS on this conforming to GAAP. PV of the future liabilities is certainly GAAP apvd, but failing to PV the assets and calling it a statement of financial condition is a lie.

You've got a $700,000/year job and a $1mm mortgage. In fact, the sum of all the incomes on your block is only $900,000/yr. (lots of retirees) Your debt is greater than the sum of the GDP on your block. Are you bankrupt? By this measure, you are. We don't even mention the fact that the liquidation value of your home is $5mm... but you're still broke, right?

I have a 2300 square foot home all paid for and I own all my land - - no mortgages on anything at all .... a 2006 Grand Prix GT paid for too.

But I am still worried that when the move from Fascism to full blown Communism is accomplished, "They" will come and take My Stuff and give it to "Them" who have not succeeded in life. (yes I meant "Them")

I do not feel secure in the land of "Security and Freedom" ..... the illusion is breaking down really really fast.

.
02-17-2009 01:08 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #17
RE: US Federal obligations exceed world GDP of $65.5 trillion
(02-17-2009 01:08 PM)Tripster Wrote:  
(02-17-2009 10:01 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  and when faced with honest dissention, the name calling starts.

You are accounting for a contingent liability. You don't know EXACTLY what you will owe because you can only estimate inflation, Congressional actions, and mortality and birth rates.

WHERE do you account for the NPV of the contingent asset? You know, the fact that you are still working?? Or in the case of the government, the PV of future GDP?

When you fill out your personal statement, you list your mortgage amount (not the total of the payments, but the current "cash buy out" value... AND the value of your home. In this example, we're listing the PV of the future payments (the current cash buy-out value)... but not the PV of our future income... and CERTAINLY not the "cash buy-out" value of our economy. In fact, the study instead lists some worthless number like the total amount earned by all the people on your block.

I'll call BS on this conforming to GAAP. PV of the future liabilities is certainly GAAP apvd, but failing to PV the assets and calling it a statement of financial condition is a lie.

You've got a $700,000/year job and a $1mm mortgage. In fact, the sum of all the incomes on your block is only $900,000/yr. (lots of retirees) Your debt is greater than the sum of the GDP on your block. Are you bankrupt? By this measure, you are. We don't even mention the fact that the liquidation value of your home is $5mm... but you're still broke, right?

I have a 2300 square foot home all paid for and I own all my land - - no mortgages on anything at all .... a 2006 Grand Prix GT paid for too.

But I am still worried that when the move from Fascism to full blown Communism is accomplished, "They" will come and take My Stuff and give it to "Them" who have not succeeded in life. (yes I meant "Them")

I do not feel secure in the land of "Security and Freedom" ..... the illusion is breaking down really really fast.

.

You quoted me, so I suspect there's a point in here somewhere directed at me.

Good for you...

of course, you haven't had to hire security guards to patrol your property... or lawyers/judges to negotiate border disputes... nor have you factored in the cost of maintenance to your house or car.... or the roads to your house... you have a future liability for the public utilities you use, plus taxes to pay for police/fire etc... OR admittedly, your future earnings... so that isn't an entire picture either...

As I said originally, I don't disagree one bit with the POINT of making such comments... I simply disagree with the effectiveness. The financial picture painted is a lie, and compares its size to something completely immaterial.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2009 01:20 PM by Hambone10.)
02-17-2009 01:18 PM
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Artifice Offline
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Post: #18
RE: US Federal obligations exceed world GDP of $65.5 trillion
Hambone has won this thread, and it's not close.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2009 02:31 PM by Artifice.)
02-17-2009 02:30 PM
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Post: #19
RE: US Federal obligations exceed world GDP of $65.5 trillion
(02-14-2009 10:48 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  Don't get me wrong, I'd love to make my house my own country, I just don't think they'll let me do it. Break up of the Fed Gov't would be pretty awesome though.

I really wish we kept the articles of confederation, it was a much better system.

The Constitution is better, it is just being ignored.

The Articles of Confederation had serious unfixable flaws, including:
- No ability to have nationwide currency.
- States operating almost like countries ... this leads to people simply moving to different states to escape contracts
- No ability for national government to levy taxes
- No ability to raise and coordinate a military
02-17-2009 03:41 PM
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Post: #20
RE: US Federal obligations exceed world GDP of $65.5 trillion
(02-17-2009 10:01 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(02-16-2009 06:44 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  I got news for you loonytards, you may be making payments on that 30 year mortgage, but on the balance sheet, the total owed still shows as a liability. This article uses acceptable accounting principals.

and when faced with honest dissention, the name calling starts.

You are accounting for a contingent liability. You don't know EXACTLY what you will owe because you can only estimate inflation, Congressional actions, and mortality and birth rates.

WHERE do you account for the NPV of the contingent asset? You know, the fact that you are still working?? Or in the case of the government, the PV of future GDP?

When you fill out your personal statement, you list your mortgage amount (not the total of the payments, but the current "cash buy out" value... AND the value of your home. In this example, we're listing the PV of the future payments (the current cash buy-out value)... but not the PV of our future income... and CERTAINLY not the "cash buy-out" value of our economy. In fact, the study instead lists some worthless number like the total amount earned by all the people on your block.

I'll call BS on this conforming to GAAP. PV of the future liabilities is certainly GAAP apvd, but failing to PV the assets and calling it a statement of financial condition is a lie.

You've got a $700,000/year job and a $1mm mortgage. In fact, the sum of all the incomes on your block is only $900,000/yr. (lots of retirees) Your debt is greater than the sum of the GDP on your block. Are you bankrupt? By this measure, you are. We don't even mention the fact that the liquidation value of your home is $5mm... but you're still broke, right?

Your analogy -- and this is VERY VERY important -- operates under the assumption that there is a banker who will continue to loan you money as you slide further and further into debt. When the baby boomer tsunami hits .... who will continue to loan the USA money then? By 2040, the US will only be able to afford interest on the debt, and SOME SS/Medicare benefits. Everything else they do they will have to finance through debt. Would you really feel good about being a banker to that? The US is already on the verge of losing its AAA credit rating ... and I feel like one of the surest investments you can make today is shorting US Treasuries and Bonds.
02-17-2009 03:45 PM
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