Even though I have my issues with Retired Marine General Anthony Zinni over some policies he pushed while he was Commander of CENTCOM, this takes the cake. He worked hard for Obama, He endured much crap from people like me who declared him a sellout. Obviously he was promised something good for all the help he gave the Messiah. And this is the Thanks he gets..

Laura Rozen's The Washington Times' extraordinary report on just how badly Gen. Anthony Zinni feels he was treated by the Obama team is a mark of, above all, how close the foreign policy appointments -- hashed out between Clinton and Obama teams -- are being held. The upside of this, in theory, is relatively few leaks. The downside is lots of stress and uncertainty.

And Zinni's not the only one in the dark. Former Ambassador to Israel Dan Kurtzer, a major Obama backer and key surrogate on the campaign, is, last I heard, back at Princeton and telling friends he has no idea what, if anything, he'll be doing in the administration.

From the Times:

When retired Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni told the Washington Times today that he was offered the job of U.S. ambassador to Iraq before being passed over in favor of diplomat Christopher Hill, he did not say that one of the outrages of the experience was that his friend of 30 years, fellow former Marine Corps commandant and now national security advisor James L. Jones had offered him the job, and then failed to tell him when the decision was changed.

"Jones had called me before the inauguration and asked if I would be willing to serve as ambassador to Iraq or in one of the envoy jobs, on the Middle East peace process," Zinni told Foreign Policy. "I said yes."

"Then two weeks ago, Jones called," Zinni continued, "and said, 'We talked to the secretary of state, and everybody would like to offer you the Iraq job. I said yes.

"The president called and congratulated me," Zinni said.

Then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton asked for a meeting last Monday night, Zinni said. He said he went to the meeting in her office at the State Department, where Deputy Secretary of State James Steinberg and Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs Williams Burns were also in attendance.

"She thanks me, asked me my views on Iraq," Zinni recalled. "She said to Burns and Steinberg, 'We've got to move quickly, Crocker is leaving, we've got to get someone in there and get the paperwork done and hearings... Lots to do to get ready to go."

Zinni said he expected a call from Burns the next day. Not hearing from him, he called him.

"To make a long story short, I kept getting blown off all week," Zinni said. "Meantime, I was rushing to put my personal things in order," to get ready to go.

"Finally, nobody was telling me anything," Zinni said. "I called Jones Monday several times. I finally got through late in evening. I asked Jones, 'What's going on?' And Jones said, 'We decided on Chris Hill.'"

"I said, 'Really,'" Zinni recalled. "That was news to me."

Jones asked him if he would like to be ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Zinni said. "I said, 'You can stick that with whatever other offers,"
Zinni recalled, saying he had used more colorful language with Jones.
Asked Jones's response and if he was apologetic, Zinni said, "Jones was not too concerned. He laughed about it."

Zinni said particularly galling is that had he not managed to get through to Jones on Monday night after repeated calls, he would have found out about the Chris Hill appointment in the Washington Post the next day with everybody else.

"You know, I would have appreciated if someone called me and said, 'Minds were changed,'" Zinni said. "But not even to get a call. That's what's really embarrassing."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

That sounds like it's Hillary Clinton with the lion's share of the blame, and Jones with a personal failure. That's not to excuse Obama because it looks like he mismanaged the situation.

(02-05-2009 08:58 AM)I45owl Wrote:  That sounds like it's Hillary Clinton with the lion's share of the blame, and Jones with a personal failure. That's not to excuse Obama because it looks like he mismanaged the situation.

You know, perhaps the job of President REALLY IS harder than many of us armchair Presidents seem to think.

not directed at either of you, obviously... but more the media who seem to like to point out every single misstep of an administration.

I realize that people fault Bush for never admitting mistakes, though he actually did on a few occassions... they were simply in the authoritative form of comments like "we are learning" as opposed to the more mea culpa we've heard from Obama already... problem is... if the President (whomever he or she is) has to apologize for every mistake made by every person in their administration, they're going to spend their whole time apologizing.

While I think it is ludicrous for an aide to think that the nominee for secretary of the treasury didn't need to be accurate on his taxes, I have no doubt that Obama didn't know about it... but does it matter?? Our President looks stupid.

(02-05-2009 09:49 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(02-05-2009 08:58 AM)I45owl Wrote:  That sounds like it's Hillary Clinton with the lion's share of the blame, and Jones with a personal failure. That's not to excuse Obama because it looks like he mismanaged the situation.

You know, perhaps the job of President REALLY IS harder than many of us armchair Presidents seem to think.

not directed at either of you, obviously... but more the media who seem to like to point out every single misstep of an administration.

I agree w/ you. The press believes it's their responsibility to make every mistake a major issue. There is no perspective on scale.

But what rubs many of us the wrong way is that even some of Bush's successes were labeled as failures. (Kyoto being the first in a long line). Also, Obama still gets kid glove treatment, despite 4 major appointments being disasters, two others being extremely questionable, and that doesn't even count Hillary.

(02-05-2009 09:49 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(02-05-2009 08:58 AM)I45owl Wrote:  That sounds like it's Hillary Clinton with the lion's share of the blame, and Jones with a personal failure. That's not to excuse Obama because it looks like he mismanaged the situation.

You know, perhaps the job of President REALLY IS harder than many of us armchair Presidents seem to think.

not directed at either of you, obviously... but more the media who seem to like to point out every single misstep of an administration.

I realize that people fault Bush for never admitting mistakes, though he actually did on a few occassions... they were simply in the authoritative form of comments like "we are learning" as opposed to the more mea culpa we've heard from Obama already... problem is... if the President (whomever he or she is) has to apologize for every mistake made by every person in their administration, they're going to spend their whole time apologizing.

While I think it is ludicrous for an aide to think that the nominee for secretary of the treasury didn't need to be accurate on his taxes, I have no doubt that Obama didn't know about it... but does it matter?? Our President looks stupid.

What bothers me is the incompetence of many of the people that the POTUS puts around him to advise him. Rummy/Cheney are a perfect example. I would have thought these guys would have been outstanding advisors...yet..Their job performance was not up to their billing.

Maybe its like trying to recruit a college football team using the Rivals star system. Choosing 4 and 5 star athletes does not mean you will always get good players. Quite often...the 5 star players never even see the field.

Being able to place competent and intuitive people around you as real sigh of leadership. The problem is ...you just never know how it's going to play out until...crisis occurs. BO is in the middle of a crisis...We will see if he has place competent people around him..very soon.

(02-05-2009 10:34 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-05-2009 09:49 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(02-05-2009 08:58 AM)I45owl Wrote:  That sounds like it's Hillary Clinton with the lion's share of the blame, and Jones with a personal failure. That's not to excuse Obama because it looks like he mismanaged the situation.

You know, perhaps the job of President REALLY IS harder than many of us armchair Presidents seem to think.

not directed at either of you, obviously... but more the media who seem to like to point out every single misstep of an administration.

I agree w/ you. The press believes it's their responsibility to make every mistake a major issue. There is no perspective on scale.

But what rubs many of us the wrong way is that even some of Bush's successes were labeled as failures. (Kyoto being the first in a long line). Also, Obama still gets kid glove treatment, despite 4 major appointments being disasters, two others being extremely questionable, and that doesn't even count Hillary.

I agree, but obviously we see things from our own perspectives.

I've heard otherwise intelligent people get absolutely frothing at the mouth with conspiracy theories about Obama AND Bush. I believe that most reporters are liberals... so perhaps the barrier to entry is higher for a scandal/issue about Obama...

(02-05-2009 10:45 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-05-2009 09:49 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(02-05-2009 08:58 AM)I45owl Wrote:  That sounds like it's Hillary Clinton with the lion's share of the blame, and Jones with a personal failure. That's not to excuse Obama because it looks like he mismanaged the situation.

You know, perhaps the job of President REALLY IS harder than many of us armchair Presidents seem to think.

not directed at either of you, obviously... but more the media who seem to like to point out every single misstep of an administration.

I realize that people fault Bush for never admitting mistakes, though he actually did on a few occassions... they were simply in the authoritative form of comments like "we are learning" as opposed to the more mea culpa we've heard from Obama already... problem is... if the President (whomever he or she is) has to apologize for every mistake made by every person in their administration, they're going to spend their whole time apologizing.

While I think it is ludicrous for an aide to think that the nominee for secretary of the treasury didn't need to be accurate on his taxes, I have no doubt that Obama didn't know about it... but does it matter?? Our President looks stupid.

What bothers me is the incompetence of many of the people that the POTUS puts around him to advise him. Rummy/Cheney are a perfect example. I would have thought these guys would have been outstanding advisors...yet..Their job performance was not up to their billing.

Maybe its like trying to recruit a college football team using the Rivals star system. Choosing 4 and 5 star athletes does not mean you will always get good players. Quite often...the 5 star players never even see the field.

Being able to place competent and intuitive people around you as real sigh of leadership. The problem is ...you just never know how it's going to play out until...crisis occurs. BO is in the middle of a crisis...We will see if he has place competent people around him..very soon.

Of course, Obama doesn't hand pick every person... and you pick your football team based upon the offense/defense you want to run... what if you wake up and find that your opponent is suddenly playing basketball instead of football?? That certainly happened with our military. We built ships and tanks and planes to fight an army... not to fight a "gang" war.

(02-05-2009 10:50 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(02-05-2009 10:45 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-05-2009 09:49 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(02-05-2009 08:58 AM)I45owl Wrote:  That sounds like it's Hillary Clinton with the lion's share of the blame, and Jones with a personal failure. That's not to excuse Obama because it looks like he mismanaged the situation.

You know, perhaps the job of President REALLY IS harder than many of us armchair Presidents seem to think.

not directed at either of you, obviously... but more the media who seem to like to point out every single misstep of an administration.

I realize that people fault Bush for never admitting mistakes, though he actually did on a few occassions... they were simply in the authoritative form of comments like "we are learning" as opposed to the more mea culpa we've heard from Obama already... problem is... if the President (whomever he or she is) has to apologize for every mistake made by every person in their administration, they're going to spend their whole time apologizing.

While I think it is ludicrous for an aide to think that the nominee for secretary of the treasury didn't need to be accurate on his taxes, I have no doubt that Obama didn't know about it... but does it matter?? Our President looks stupid.

What bothers me is the incompetence of many of the people that the POTUS puts around him to advise him. Rummy/Cheney are a perfect example. I would have thought these guys would have been outstanding advisors...yet..Their job performance was not up to their billing.

Maybe its like trying to recruit a college football team using the Rivals star system. Choosing 4 and 5 star athletes does not mean you will always get good players. Quite often...the 5 star players never even see the field.

Being able to place competent and intuitive people around you as real sigh of leadership. The problem is ...you just never know how it's going to play out until...crisis occurs. BO is in the middle of a crisis...We will see if he has place competent people around him..very soon.

Of course, Obama doesn't hand pick every person... and you pick your football team based upon the offense/defense you want to run... what if you wake up and find that your opponent is suddenly playing basketball instead of football?? That certainly happened with our military. We built ships and tanks and planes to fight an army... not to fight a "gang" war.

If you don't know what sport you are going to play....You better just go after...smart athletes.

(02-05-2009 09:49 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(02-05-2009 08:58 AM)I45owl Wrote:  That sounds like it's Hillary Clinton with the lion's share of the blame, and Jones with a personal failure. That's not to excuse Obama because it looks like he mismanaged the situation.

You know, perhaps the job of President REALLY IS harder than many of us armchair Presidents seem to think.

not directed at either of you, obviously... but more the media who seem to like to point out every single misstep of an administration.

I realize that people fault Bush for never admitting mistakes, though he actually did on a few occassions... they were simply in the authoritative form of comments like "we are learning" as opposed to the more mea culpa we've heard from Obama already... problem is... if the President (whomever he or she is) has to apologize for every mistake made by every person in their administration, they're going to spend their whole time apologizing.

While I think it is ludicrous for an aide to think that the nominee for secretary of the treasury didn't need to be accurate on his taxes, I have no doubt that Obama didn't know about it... but does it matter?? Our President looks stupid.

I think things are probably more complex. It's probably like an AD offering someone a job as QB coach before he hires the head coach and then finding the head coach wants his own guy in there. Ambassadorships are notorious political rewards ... this is not exactly some obscure Duchy, but there is probably a lot more to the story that Zinni doesn't and may never know about.

(02-05-2009 10:34 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  But what rubs many of us the wrong way is that even some of Bush's successes were labeled as failures. (Kyoto being the first in a long line). Also, Obama still gets kid glove treatment, despite 4 major appointments being disasters, two others being extremely questionable, and that doesn't even count Hillary.

One of the things that I really liked about the bush administration was how he could stick to his guns and then fix things behind the scene (i.e. dismissing Rumsfeld). Standing by your general principles yet tacitly admitting mistakes without being a complete ***** about it.

(02-05-2009 10:45 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-05-2009 09:49 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(02-05-2009 08:58 AM)I45owl Wrote:  That sounds like it's Hillary Clinton with the lion's share of the blame, and Jones with a personal failure. That's not to excuse Obama because it looks like he mismanaged the situation.

You know, perhaps the job of President REALLY IS harder than many of us armchair Presidents seem to think.

not directed at either of you, obviously... but more the media who seem to like to point out every single misstep of an administration.

I realize that people fault Bush for never admitting mistakes, though he actually did on a few occassions... they were simply in the authoritative form of comments like "we are learning" as opposed to the more mea culpa we've heard from Obama already... problem is... if the President (whomever he or she is) has to apologize for every mistake made by every person in their administration, they're going to spend their whole time apologizing.

While I think it is ludicrous for an aide to think that the nominee for secretary of the treasury didn't need to be accurate on his taxes, I have no doubt that Obama didn't know about it... but does it matter?? Our President looks stupid.

What bothers me is the incompetence of many of the people that the POTUS puts around him to advise him. Rummy/Cheney are a perfect example. I would have thought these guys would have been outstanding advisors...yet..Their job performance was not up to their billing.

Bush's appointments were still better than Clinton's - at least the first iteration. I'd say the same for Obama at this stage.

(02-05-2009 10:46 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I've heard otherwise intelligent people get absolutely frothing at the mouth with conspiracy theories about Obama AND Bush. I believe that most reporters are liberals... so perhaps the barrier to entry is higher for a scandal/issue about Obama...

Throwing bitcruncher a backhanded compliment? Very big of you.

(02-05-2009 10:54 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  If you don't know what sport you are going to play....You better just go after...smart athletes.

You probably just made Hambone's day, and I'm not even sure you're aware of it.