Let's hope we don't see another year like 2008 in our life times!

BTW, does "Spin Brothers" meet the "PC" rules?

I think 2009 has a very good chance of making us long for the good old days of 2008. As do 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and a few more. I actually think the US may well become unlivable in a few years, and I don't know if it will ever recover.

At this point, I honestly don't see a future out there that's worth living through. I hope events prove me wrong, but if they do I'll be pleasantly astonished.

(12-31-2008 11:20 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think 2009 has a very good chance of making us long for the good old days of 2008. As do 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and a few more. I actually think the US may well become unlivable in a few years, and I don't know if it will ever recover.

At this point, I honestly don't see a future out there that's worth living through. I hope events prove me wrong, but if they do I'll be pleasantly astonished.

Sounds like you're painting a picture of the "New Rome".

While there are many areas that have me concerned about our countries future, I trust that unique spirit that seperates Americans from the rest of the world will find the solutions.

(12-31-2008 11:29 PM)West Is the Best Wrote:  While there are many areas that have me concerned about our countries future, I trust that unique spirit that seperates Americans from the rest of the world will find the solutions.

I don't.

(12-31-2008 11:20 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think 2009 has a very good chance of making us long for the good old days of 2008. As do 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and a few more. I actually think the US may well become unlivable in a few years, and I don't know if it will ever recover.

At this point, I honestly don't see a future out there that's worth living through. I hope events prove me wrong, but if they do I'll be pleasantly astonished.

The future may not be like the past but it can be very worhwhile and worth living. You may not make the same salary but you may find something more important than salary. You will still have your friends and family and maybe even make new ones. You may find volunteering to help someone very fulfilling and not miss being able to buy the 50" LCD and that $40-$50,000+ car.

Oops. I almost forgot. Happy new year everybody.

HNY!!!.....I'm with Owl.....Secessionist factions may well be the next major political parties in the US. I for one will support and join that effort unless drastic changes occur soon.

All governments throughout history have suffered the same fate...destruction from within. Unless we can STOP in its tracks the growth of the Federal Government....We are witnessing the beginning of the death of the greatest attempt at Liberty ever conceived by man.

I really think it can be saved...but...only with a radical shift in our paradigms.

Its time to EVOLVE to a more freemarket and voluntarist society not..REVOLVE into another failed attempt to restrain the power of government. Government and those seeking power can NOT be restrained...no matter what limitations anyone conceives...It is just a total impossibility.

Happy New Year to all! I hope I am totally wrong about everything I advocate and that our nation will prosper for the good of our children and grand children....Peace be with all!.....Fo' Rizzle...my..Broshizzles!

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"Secessionist"

Sounds interesting and if it kills off both sick parties we have now, I am a Charter Member.

Happy New YARRRRRR !!!!

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Everyone, I wish all of you the best of luck in 2009.

(01-01-2009 12:30 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(12-31-2008 11:20 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think 2009 has a very good chance of making us long for the good old days of 2008. As do 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and a few more. I actually think the US may well become unlivable in a few years, and I don't know if it will ever recover.
At this point, I honestly don't see a future out there that's worth living through. I hope events prove me wrong, but if they do I'll be pleasantly astonished.

The future may not be like the past but it can be very worhwhile and worth living. You may not make the same salary but you may find something more important than salary. You will still have your friends and family and maybe even make new ones. You may find volunteering to help someone very fulfilling and not miss being able to buy the 50" LCD and that $40-$50,000+ car.
Oops. I almost forgot. Happy new year everybody.

I appreciate the thoughts, but I'm afraid you're not understanding the reasons for my concerns.

My concerns are not about me. I have all the material possessions that I want, and they are all paid for (the secret to getting everything you want is to control what you want). I could not hope to have more loving family and friends. I no longer make the same salary I once did, because I am semi-retired. That gives me more time to volunteer and help others, which I find immensely rewarding and enjoyable. If things reach the stage that I worry about the kinds of things you mention, I cannot imagine how bad it will be for everyone else.

My concern is that I think our society is about to become unlivable for thirty-something couples with two kids who are trying to get ahead, and I don't know how we proceed from there.

(01-01-2009 07:37 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-01-2009 12:30 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(12-31-2008 11:20 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think 2009 has a very good chance of making us long for the good old days of 2008. As do 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and a few more. I actually think the US may well become unlivable in a few years, and I don't know if it will ever recover.
At this point, I honestly don't see a future out there that's worth living through. I hope events prove me wrong, but if they do I'll be pleasantly astonished.

The future may not be like the past but it can be very worhwhile and worth living. You may not make the same salary but you may find something more important than salary. You will still have your friends and family and maybe even make new ones. You may find volunteering to help someone very fulfilling and not miss being able to buy the 50" LCD and that $40-$50,000+ car.
Oops. I almost forgot. Happy new year everybody.

I appreciate the thoughts, but I'm afraid you're not understanding the reasons for my concerns.

My concerns are not about me. I have all the material possessions that I want, and they are all paid for (the secret to getting everything you want is to control what you want). I could not hope to have more loving family and friends. I no longer make the same salary I once did, because I am semi-retired. That gives me more time to volunteer and help others, which I find immensely rewarding and enjoyable. If things reach the stage that I worry about the kinds of things you mention, I cannot imagine how bad it will be for everyone else.

My concern is that I think our society is about to become unlivable for thirty-something couples with two kids who are trying to get ahead, and I don't know how we proceed from there.

Define "unlivable".

(01-01-2009 11:40 AM)West Is the Best Wrote:  Define "unlivable".

The 1930s with runaway inflation.

The US is on the edge of disaster, and all it takes is a little push.. Foreign Power perhaps? Or a terrorist group?

The Russians are hurting worse then the United States is presently. China is hurting. Europe is hurting.

This is like the "Perfect Storm" for everything to crash all at once.

(01-01-2009 12:09 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  The US is on the edge of disaster, and all it takes is a little push.. Foreign Power perhaps? Or a terrorist group?
The Russians are hurting worse then the United States is presently. China is hurting. Europe is hurting.
This is like the "Perfect Storm" for everything to crash all at once.

This has been building for 40+ years. Nixon, Ford, and Carter almost let it get out of control in the 70s. Reagan's tax cuts breathed enough life back into a dying economy to get us through tweaks by GHWB and Clinton. Perot saw it coming in 1992 and had a lot of good ideas, but nobody acted on them. Shrub has simply been a disaster. He's been more socialist than conservative, and in the process has gotten us to the lip of the cup of catastrophe. I'm firmly convinced that Obama's plans for the economy will finish the job pretty quickly and convincingly.

I still think we could save things by reviving some of Perot's ideas (NOT including his opposition to NAFTA, which was based on personal greed rather than reasoned policy principles) along with revising our tax code to make us competitive in the world marketplace, but I don't see Obama going in that direction.

That's the way I see it. You're free to see it a different way. We'll all wait to see who's right.

(01-01-2009 11:43 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-01-2009 11:40 AM)West Is the Best Wrote:  Define "unlivable".

The 1930s with runaway inflation.

Considering the "millions' that lived through the 1930s I still don't understand what you men by "unlivable".

(01-01-2009 12:09 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  The US is on the edge of disaster, and all it takes is a little push.. Foreign Power perhaps? Or a terrorist group?

The Russians are hurting worse then the United States is presently. China is hurting. Europe is hurting.

This is like the "Perfect Storm" for everything to crash all at once.

The world survived the perfect storm in the 1930s.

We are clearly in a serious situation, but your response sounds more like panic. Which quit frankly, is what is driving a significant portion of this mess.

(01-01-2009 02:46 PM)West Is the Best Wrote:  

(01-01-2009 11:43 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-01-2009 11:40 AM)West Is the Best Wrote:  Define "unlivable".

The 1930s with runaway inflation.

Considering the "millions' that lived through the 1930s I still don't understand what you men by "unlivable".

The 30s didn't have inflation to go with depression. When the government starts printing money to devalue our debt, we'll have both. That's if the continuing negative trade balance doesn't bring the dollar down first. Or if we don't make China angry enough to fade the heat and dump our debt first.

They also didn't have two generations with the entitlement mentality that todays "me first" Americans have. We've just elected a president who has promised 95% of Americans that he's going to give them everything they want and make somebody else pay for it. When that doesn't come down, we'll be back to "burn baby burn" days.

We also had an industrial base in the 1930s. We could actually take raw materials and turn them into finished goods that were worth more. Now we have a retail/service economy. We aren't going to greet each other rich at the front door of Wal-Mart.

That may not sound unlivable to you, but it comes pretty close to me.

.

I truly believe that if our "Legislators", at all levels, would simply abide by the same Laws They Create and abide by The Constitution of the United States ....

Even more and probably all of this mess would be well behind us now.

Most sensible Americans live within their means enough to keep the economy stimulated and yet have some semblance of a meaningful life.

I honestly wish we could "Impeach Government".

.

I was listening to the radio while driving home from the store and a talk show host said 2009 might be bad enough to where we might say 2008 wasn't so bad after all.

I need a drink.

Oh, Happy New Year and my apologies to the politically correct among us who might feel that by celebrating our new year we're being insensitive to those who celebrate theirs on a differnt day.

I fully expect 2009 to be worse than 2008. And 2010 to be worse than 2009. After that, it could start to get really bad.