While this is my first post, I've been lurking on the board for almost two years. I've seen a lot of criticism of the atheletic program, most which is well deserved, but I don't remember reading any realistic suggestions for how to increase basketball attendance. While I'm all for getting football back, I also realize that we don't have a prayer of doing that until we get attendance up in basketball and from there, build a loyal fan base. Even considering the conference we play in; with a little decent marketing, an area the size of the Tri-Cities ought to be able to put 6000 fannies in the seats ...and somebody better start installing fire exit doors. While I know nothing about marketing (I majored in the sciences), even I know that if "you do what you've always done, you'll get what you always got". If in fact, someone from the University does actually read this board, would there be any benefit to have a thread with some realistic, cost effective suggestions on what could be done to increase attendance? What do you guys think?

I completely agree with you when you say "an area the size of the Tri-Cities ought to be able to put 6000 fannies in the seats". I don't think that will ever happen without football or with the current administration. They've proven they have the least amount of vision and drive of all the DI schools in the entire state. No other school has been "forced" to do what we've done.

Too many fans are angry and don't trust these guys. They will never be successful fundraising or attracting fans with the track record they have. We need an administration change to be able to move ETSU forward.

The major problem is that we are in the A-sun and as much as this may offend other fans of the A-sun the simple fact is that ETSU fans don't respect it and with good reason. It's not the same.


As for realistic ways to get the numbers back up to what we would consider respectable...I'll have to get back to you on that. The fact is we all knew this was going to happen when we fell out of the Socon for the A-sun.

ETSU's marketing is such that when the NCAA gave them $45,000 to market their women's hoops programs they held a celebration for it at the NCAA selection meeting, remember?

One of the reasons I believe they have just accepted the fire marshall ruling (because I'm sorry, I would think with the political power ETSU has you could go to whatever governing body is necessary and get an exception written into the law) is because they do not want a 12,000 seat arena.

I do know sports marketing. There is something called "the sellout mentality."

Events don't happen here as much as they do other places, but let me put it this way. When you go to a sold-out event- say a major race at Bristol or an AC/DC concert somewhere, your reaction is to sort of show your tickets off at work and say "Look what I got! See where I'm goin'!"

Compare that to an ETSU game, an Appalachian League game, or the Arby's Classic.

However, when ETSU was playing NCSU and it sold out, or you went to that NBA exhibition a few years back- "Hey, look what I got!"

This was one of the reasons why baseball teams have moved to smaller ballparks in recent years. The Cleveland Indians used to play in front of 70,000 empty seats. When they moved to 41,000-seat Jacobs Field they sold out 455 straight home games.

The problem here is the sellout mentality at ETSU still has 6,000 empty seats! Even if you had ducats to the A-Sun Tournament, those extra seats make it seem as if you are going to a lackluster affair.

Since a new conference is not going to happen without new facilities, here is what they should do-

A- ESTABLISH YOURSELF AS THE ONLY MAJOR SPORTS TEAM IN THE TRI-CITIES! Which you are.

A bunch of billboards with "BLUE" on them, which is a marketing system I don't get (why wouldn't you lead with GOLD in the first place?), isn't going to do it.

I have listed a ton of marketing ideas on here over the years. I'm to the point where I don't want to restate them because I know they'll steal them from me.

But let's just put it this way. Don't resign Tennessee and VPI to the area. They're bigger. Fine.

Vanderbilt doesn't resign Nashville to UT. Pitt doesn't resign Pittsburgh to Penn State. Appalcahian State doesn't resign Boone to North Carolina.

I don't think that's done by saying "We have seats available and they don't." That doesn't make your team the happening place.

What I think you do is market yourself not as "BLUE," but as "YOUR HOMETOWN TEAM!" Instead of a huge logo on a billboard, a collage of ETSU greats that make older people remember and younger people learn.

Also, before an interview, don't have UT grad David Mullins talk about listening to a Vols football game on the radio. Don't allow the Roadrunner Market on campus to sell UT caps but no ETSU caps.

B- QUIT P1SSING OFF THE MEDIA! Do you know who the two best friends in the media are to ETSU?

Brian T. Smith and myself.

We're the only two that cover the Bucs BEYOND the games. We demand professional coverage. We think this is something other than a glorified high school. That's King's athletic department.

Literally, the other media in town covers ETSU like its Science Hill. This doesn't mean they don't do a good job with game stories or previews or shooting highlights.

But ETSU deserves more than game stories and previews. That's what Science Hill should get.

We are free publicity. Even when Brian T. Smith writes a hatchet piece with numerous flaws, in the long run it comes off well for ETSU because the Bristol Herald-Courier, which didn't even send a writer to cover a nationally televised home game during the 2002-03 season and in this era of media cutbacks could ignore ETSU sports and very few of their readers would care, has deemed ETSU worthy of attention to Bristol.

The Times-News doesn't even think ETSU merits a writer- they just go with what the Press writes. Tricitiessports.com only thinks ETSU is worth press release coverage.

The BHC thinks ETSU deserves coverage.

So open up. Talk to Smith, he'll use one quote after talking to you for four hours but you can say "I only have 15 minutes, could you be more direct in your line of questioning?"

The man's game story after the UTC game called ETSU "the real deal" and he didn't pick up on Bartow's quote about ETSU only having five seasons of 7-3 in the past 50 years. You're telling me this guy is an assassin?

Open up to me. Quit lying to my face. Quit stealing money from me or calling up WFHG with false claims. I'm not signing a paper that says I did things I didn't. Quit saying I harassed a woman I've never even met. That's a lie and you know it.

If you put me on the broadcasts as a post-game call-in show host, and allowed me to be me, the result would be huge.

The talk shows in town are huge. What I think you have to do is advertise on the sports stations. They did so in the early '90s. That will be the first step.

I'd return games to WJCW. It gets better ratings than The Peak, and it hopefully will knock a high school basketball broadcast or two off the air.

Make sure WCYB covers you. They didn't even cover the football vote thing until it was over. If you have to work out a plan where the students film interview cuts with coaches and players for you to air because they can't budget sending a truck down- you better do it.

C- Quit insulting our intelligence on the broadcasts. This isn't directed to Jay, but rather the students who participate in the broadcast.

For instance, they led last night saying that "Belmont almost beat UT, so ETSU has a tough schedule ahead!"

I couldn't even listen to the game after that. PROPAGANDA!

A loss proves the schedule is tough? And if this isn't subservience to the Vols, I don't know what is.

They used to do that "Buccaneer Update" at the beginning of Meade's show, but it was awful. It was all promotion, no real reporting.

Once, the Bucs lost a baseball game 12-4, but "the ninth inning rally fell short."

That doesn't generate interest. People make fun of fluff like that in 2008.

Leading with anything but basketball- MENS BASKETBALL- in the winter and baseball in April and May and focusing on them is the only way this will work- nobody calls up a talk show wanting more information on the No. 41 tennis team in the country.

And yes, addressing the issues- "So, Tony Skole, why does this team have an All-American candidate but is in last place in the A-Sun?" will attract attention.

There isn't a sports radio station in the country that would hire a broadcaster off the fluff they put out. Meade finally shelved that update to the end of his show.

That's the failing of ETSU marketing.

D- Invest in some tarps to put over those empty seats. DUH!

E- Remember Bill Veeck. Maybe they don't have to have a walk-on little person play in a baseball game, but a few "free ETSU cap giveaways" or "T-Shirt night" wouldn't hurt.

Letting fans in with a can of food for $5 doesn't do it. Most sports teams actually have that promotion- and while I realize the Steelers are in a different boat than the Bucs- it should be mentioned that the Steelers didn't have to offer discounted seats when they asked their fans to bring in canned food for the needy to the Cowboys game.

PittsburghBucs Wrote:What I think you do is market yourself not as "BLUE," but as "YOUR HOMETOWN TEAM!" Instead of a huge logo on a billboard, a collage of ETSU greats that make older people remember and younger people learn.

D- Invest in some tarps to put over those empty seats. DUH!

Your first point is dead on. I would rather see a billboard with Mr Jennings on it. Do something like UTC did in their video. Make it about the past, and say this could be our future too. I would like that.

And your second point....YES YES YES. Put black tarps on the entire other side with a HUGE Buc Head logo on it. How great would that look. So instead of empty seats in the background of every press photo, it would be a huge ETSU logo.

I remember when I was in Frank Clement dorm (rest in peace), during Les Robinson's first year, he went dorm to dorm (male and female) drumming up support for the basketball team/games.

Another thing is to just keep winning and put an exciting product on the floor. People will show up and follow successful teams (aside from Belmont maybe). If that team stays successful it can market itself.

Also, UT does something pretty cool. Pearl has his players walk down the isle of the student section and high five the students as they pass to enter the floor. We don't really have the setup for that, but something like that could be done in the dome. Anything that helps with fan appreciation helps.

There are some great ideas here...is anybody from the atheletic dept. taking notes or do they honestly not care if fan attendance improves? Here's another idea about bringing the fans closer to the team...Lets say ETSU blows Morehead out of the gym and Pigram drops 30 on them. As soon as the game is over and people are getting up to leave, Pigram goes over to the radio announcers table (where someone has already wired a microphone into the dome PA system) and says something like this: "If I could have your attention please....My teammates and I just wanted to tell everyone how much we appreciate you all coming to the game and suppoorting us. Your cheering us on really helps make us a better team." This doesn't cost the university a dime and it makes the fans feel like they had a part in the victory. From an educational standpoint, it would help Pigram (or one of the other players) improve their public speaking skills.

These all sound like good ideas. The school cannot keep on doing what it has been doing. They have to change the way things are done and actually improve the athletic program.

I agree with Pitt. Emphasize that this is the HOMETOWN team. Remind people of ETSU's past.

Why not give free tuition for a year to any student that can throw that newspaper , or better a basketball thru the hoop ? Might get more students to come if you give 4 of them per game a chance to sink a half court shot ?

OR their parents ?

Just a thought.

The thing is, they believe they have.

I'm convinced of this.

I keep saying this- THE PHILOSOPHY OF ETSU IS THAT THE CROSS COUNTRY TEAM IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS THE HOOPS SQUAD.

Which sounds very altruistic, but the problem is from a fan standpoint it fails because more popular sports need more attention and revenue.

What ETSU has done is drop down to a poorer conference and dropped football for soccer. I still can't believe so many people on here want to argue with me on this.

You are collectively fools. You can talk "Neither the So Con nor the A-Sun has beaten a Top 25 team," but you would be foolish to do so. You know the So Con is a superior conference with a superior history and superior teams and to say anything else is just believing propaganda.

Which ETSU wants you to do.

Anyway, it is like a student who has dropped to remedial courses. Even with these remedial classes ETSU has not returned to the NCAAs and their only appearance in the A-Sun final was a 27-point defeat, but still.

But they champion said regular season title- which is like Cosmo Kramer bragging about karate victories (and oldie but a goodie!).

And I think one of the reasons why is because they have a tennis coach as the AD. A tennis coach is naturally going to have some envy of the bigger sports and will do something to rectify it in his own mind.

So 2007 is a greater season for ETSU than 1969 and the Grantland Rice Bowl was because cross country did well. MULLINS IS ON RECORD TO SAY THIS!

Everything about ETSU is one of subservience. "We'll never compete with UT and VPI in football- let's drop the program. We'll always be a mid-major in hoops and never compete with Florida schools in baseball- so let's put off building those venues that the City desperately needs for soccer and softball fields. That will create momentum!"

I want to ask you- who in their right mind ever went to a basketball game because said school built a soccer field?

My memory is foggy on this but wasn't there something about two years ago about season tickets and donations and Paty saying something to the effect that people will be asking "where are yours?" ??? Wasn't something they were doing supposed to be the end-all of reasons why people would be rushing to buy tickets and it would be the big deal to have one?

Now they can't seem to give them away to spite a "good" start to the season. They'd have to give me a can of corn at this point to pay to come see the Gulf, the Upstate, and the Dophins play. My interest level is now back at zero.

The NCAA grant for women's basketball is a flagarent, patronizing effort for the NCAA to brag about it's promotion of women's basketball in markets where people just don't care about coming out to see the women play, no matter how good they are in the AShame.

Frankly, the billboard should have ghosted photos of past champions and winners and say "tarnished Gold"... until etsu is out of that league, clean swept and dissinfected, and fixed with sports that people can actually get excited about and will support, you can market all you want, you are marketing a dead horse.

Yea, I think the where are yours kind of goes with the whole Live, wear, think dream campaign that wreaks of undergrad intern ideals. Jacksonville is liveable, it's a nice city and they are making an effort to improve, and Gulf Coast will be there in about four to five years.
As for the women's thing, it is a little ridiculous, but I got to thinking about them today while in Pigeon Forge. I saw a picture of the state champion Sevier County High School girls basketball team, siginificant because Brooke Wilhoit was on that team and it got me to thinking about the women's program. Now granted, nobody goes to games, but the program has improved. They went from being AWFUL, and not having alot of talent, to logging some quality wins, and while their appearance in public may not be the best in the world, they are winning.
And the tarnished gold thing is funny, but is it fair to the current players who did take double digit wins against former SoCon rivals App and UT-C? Too many times I think we punish the current athletes who had NOTHING TO DO with what the administration did.

(12-26-2008 09:11 AM)bowdowntoUT Wrote:  Now they can't seem to give them away to spite a "good" start to the season. They'd have to give me a can of corn at this point to pay to come see the Gulf, the Upstate, and the Dophins play. My interest level is now back at zero.

The NCAA grant for women's basketball is a flagarent, patronizing effort for the NCAA to brag about it's promotion of women's basketball in markets where people just don't care about coming out to see the women play, no matter how good they are in the AShame.

Frankly, the billboard should have ghosted photos of past champions and winners and say "tarnished Gold"... until etsu is out of that league, clean swept and dissinfected, and fixed with sports that people can actually get excited about and will support, you can market all you want, you are marketing a dead horse.

Well I'm actually in agreement w/ much of this discussion. ETSU simply doesn't know how to promote. They think they are doing it, Pittsburgh is right, but they're not, and they're failing miserably. The problem is they don't want to invest anything, and I mean ANYTHING, into promotion. The University relations office is pretty weak in my opinion.

Cover up the empty seats -- great idea, esp with a Buc logo.

I have no problem w/ the can of food thing for a cheaper ticket, but have other promotions. Again, the hat giveaway is a good idea. Didn't they used to give away free pizzas to the students? Anything to get the students into the game. A couple of years ago a frat on campus had t-shirts, except they misspelled Murry as Murray. I think that sums it up - they can't even spell the coach's name correctly. Still, I liked the fact they showed up & the student's section was at least relatively full that night.

Look, they have to realize that we're essentially 2nd fiddle to UTK. That's unfortunate, but that's true of most regional schools. USF had no one coming to their games until recently and if that team starts losing, the fans will go to Gainesville. Most UAB's games look ridiculous in terms of attendance, at least in football. Maybe there are more there than I think, but there's a whole lot of empty seats.

So make the students stand up & take notice of ETSU athletics, and do it w/ marketing & promotion. They clearly suffered miserably when they tried to get the student vote for football, but I don't want to re-hash that fiasco. I don't go with this negative opinion of 'well we have to get into a better league' -- get them there through promotion and making it an event, and win, and the kids will go.

I have attended many many basketball games at higher level D-1 schools which shall remain nameless for now. However, one thing that makes these games so much fun is you're so close to the floor and involved and at those other venues you were pretty far away and not involved...

I'd agree that we need to get more students to the games, but IMHO the best place to start is with the Greeks. The ETSU marketing people need to come up with a couple of grand (or whatever it would take to movitate these kids) and give each frat/sorority a point for each member/guest they bring to a game. At the end of the year you give the winner the money for an end of the year "social". You can give each group a SHORT list of basic rules (e.g. no drunks, no vulgar language) and deduct points if someone has to be thrown out. Having said that, I think we need to let the kids have some fun.....did I read on here some time ago that the students were being policed to the point of absurdity and expected to act like a basketball game was a tennis or golf match? I don't think the "Cameron Crazies" have done much to hurt Duke's academic reputation.

The Murry's Madness shirts were from my last year there. It was a new fraternity on campus that did it. The shirts were a great idea. The pizza thing was done with Buck's Pizza when it was around, they need someone new to trade out with.
So many of these things we're talking about on here require people at ETSU and us to quit snapping fingers and start taking the initiative to get the students back in the seats, and get what fans we lost back. Ultimately times are tight and people aren't spending as much, but as you guys mentioned with the canned food drives, etc... there are ways to get people to come out.

Well, I am interested in getting more students in the seats. So one question - who do you contact? Jo Anne Paty? If so, I'm sure I could get her email and maybe brainstorm w/ her a bit if she's willing, and I would be willing to help although I'm crazy busy once the semester starts.

$1.80 -- Totally agree that student organizations, such as frats/sororities are the way to go. At the higher level institutions I mentioned, that's exactly what they did, and it worked beautifully. It didn't hurt that the teams won, either, obviously. But it appears we may have a winner on our hands, and it's high time it gets promoted.

Getting the students involved is always a tough task at a commuter campus, but it can be done.

I was pretty critical of atheletic dept. marketing on this board several weeks ago because I thought the criticism was well deserved. At the same time, I want to give credit where credit is due; and I will say that I believe someone has begun to put some effort into this thing, and the improvements are obvious. I know its easier in a blowout, but I saw more crowd participation (good to see Superfan running the baseline) than I've seen in years. The student sections were almost full and I saw fans participating and having a good time. This is the kind of thing that brings people back and starts to build a fan base. Although it was a little late and most people had their backs turned as they headed for the exit, I thought Coach Bartow thanking the fans was a good move. I wonder what it would have been like if the weather was better. Congrats to whoever at the University is working on this......keep at it...there is still much more that can (and should) be done! Maybe someone over there is reading this board????????

I've been going to the games for 3 years now and I have to admit that the student section has been pretty boring throughout most of the games. That is unless a greek frat./sor. decides to make an appearance.

I definately agree that atmosphere plays a huge role in whether someone will return to the home games throughout the season. I can understand why the community wouldn't get excited about the program if the students can't muster up enough enthusiasim to bring a little noise to the dome. Personally I can't recall a game this season in which I didn't loose my voice after an intense session of yelling, meanwhile around me nothing but crickets.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that students partake in a little liquid courage before the games in the interest of drawing a better crowd response and thus improving the prospective return rate of community goers. I know that this can definitely work considering that I have evoked some major hardcore chants in past games (mondays game against usc upstate).

Anyways... I have to agree that promotions and ad campaigns are working terrible for ETSU. I mean what are they thinking putting a billboard promoting ETSU sports (I think ladys B-Ball) on w. market street coming from Jonesborough. I'm not majoring in marketing but i'm pretty sure that they need to go ahead and move that thing to roane st. in the area near the mall; atleast that area has enough stop lights there that someone might actually see the thing.

And the electronic billboard in front of the dome. It seems like every time I pass it there is some stupid ad for pizza hut or something. I'm sure they could improve attendance nicely by actually promoting a basketball game and a schedule for upcoming games in advance rather then day of or not at all.

Perhaps i'll copy this forum and give it to who evers in charge of athletic promotions. wait, no perhaps about it, keep writing suggestions and i'll march over to campus and hand deliver it by friday.

Oh they know about this forum and most of them over there read it daily.