find where in the Constitution it talks about nationalizing the auto industry and appointing an Automotive "Czar" ?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081113/ap_o...to_bailout

Voinovich is sure straying from any sign of fiscal responsibility.

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It is under "Chapter's 7 & 11" Doc .....
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Truman tried to nationalize the Steel industry and it was rejected as unconstitutional. However, I think its one of those things intrepreted different ways thinks to 14th? Amendment.

which constitutional Amendments are about as constitutional as it gets.


I say bailout the Auto Industry, if and only IF, the Unions are killed off for good(i.e. the Cancer of GM and Ford). Otherwise, die off already.

Toyota, Nissan, Honda..., all doing just fine with their Union Free plants in non-Union friendly states(i.e. Red State America). Yet idiots in Michigan continue to vote for the leeches.

GGniner Wrote:Truman tried to nationalize the Steel industry and it was rejected as unconstitutional. However, I think its one of those things intrepreted different ways thinks to 14th? Amendment.

which constitutional Amendments are about as constitutional as it gets.

14th doesn't seem to match the subject.

I did read a great quote on another message board, "The American Auto industry is actually doing quite well. It's the ones located in Detroit that are having problems."

I don't blame it all on unions. Bean counters who think they know how to manufacture, dishonest executive decisions (think Robert Kearns), inflated white-collar salaries...they all take a toll.

GGniner Wrote:Truman tried to nationalize the Steel industry and it was rejected as unconstitutional. However, I think its one of those things intrepreted different ways thinks to 14th? Amendment.

which constitutional Amendments are about as constitutional as it gets.


I say bailout the Auto Industry, if and only IF, the Unions are killed off for good(i.e. the Cancer of GM and Ford). Otherwise, die off already.

Toyota, Nissan, Honda..., all doing just fine with their Union Free plants in non-Union friendly states(i.e. Red State America). Yet idiots in Michigan continue to vote for the leeches.

I agree...I think the unions must GO if my stolen wages are to be used to bail them out. Its going to get interesting.

it will be a bailout of the UAW for all practical purposes, so they can continue to pay their lazy workers $60/hr to sweep floors


Unions are about to get alot stronger, going to hurt companies like Wal-Mart alot, and us consumers by extension

GGniner Wrote:Toyota, Nissan, Honda..., all doing just fine with their Union Free plants in non-Union friendly states(i.e. Red State America). Yet idiots in Michigan continue to vote for the leeches.

No idea about Toyota and Nissan, but I know that Honda has unions in its plants. The big difference between the American and the foreign guys are the number of retirees. The big 3 in America has a ton of legacy costs, the foreign companies don't have them *yet*.

mlb Wrote:

GGniner Wrote:Toyota, Nissan, Honda..., all doing just fine with their Union Free plants in non-Union friendly states(i.e. Red State America). Yet idiots in Michigan continue to vote for the leeches.

No idea about Toyota and Nissan, but I know that Honda has unions in its plants. The big difference between the American and the foreign guys are the number of retirees. The big 3 in America has a ton of legacy costs, the foreign companies don't have them *yet*.

Let the Big 3 die! Toyota, Hyundai, Nissan, Volkswagen, and other foreign companies are building plants here in America! Forget Detroit and their crappy cars. Buy good cars made by Americans in America, i.e. foreign brand cars. Most of the Big 3 cars are made in Mexico or elsewhere. Screw 'em.

I don't think the UAW has made it into Honda or Toyota American plants, though they've tried over and over.

if UAW ever gets in they are screwed.

Bailing out the auto industry benefits only the politicians who can say they "did something".

I45owl Wrote:Bailing out the auto industry benefits only the politicians who can say they "did something".

well them, and their backers(Unions, environmentalist) in this example

If Detroit's auto industry dies so do their suppliers, the truckers who deliver the cars to dealers, the dealers, the mechanics and salesmen at the dealers, and so on. The domino effect is quite large. I say LEND Detroit the money but demand some sort of restructuring that makes financial sense and that means the unions have to make big concessions or fade into the sunset. Better yet, let Detroit borrow the money from China.

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Yeah I have to agree .....

The "Auto Industry", unlike the Financial Groups that are Paper Based and basically create Intangible Product, the Auto Industry does supply a Real Product and this Product is needed.

I don't know how they do it now, but when I was in the Military, the Government Bought from Distressed Companies Under Special Contracts that let them use a company without having to take bids.

We had Zenith Computer Terminals (Zenith Computers, I know I know), Chrysler Vehicles to bail them out, and many other Distressed, near bankruptcy companies products.

This sort of Positive Government Help worked because it supplied ALL Government Agencies with the Exact Same Products and the Government Got Something for Their Dollars, not just a Smile and a Promise to Pay it Back that will never be kept .... we had Trucks, Cars, Guns, Computers, Clothing, Airplanes & Parts, Helicopters & Parts, and if you can name it, we bought it to save failing companies.

Why do we not do it that way now ???? I think we are all tired of Washington simply writing Blank Checks to these Thieves and want to see something for our money.
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Tripster Wrote:.
Yeah I have to agree .....

The "Auto Industry", unlike the Financial Groups that are Paper Based and basically create Intangible Product, the Auto Industry does supply a Real Product and this Product is needed.

I don't know how they do it now, but when I was in the Military, the Government Bought from Distressed Companies Under Special Contracts that let them use a company without having to take bids.

We had Zenith Computer Terminals (Zenith Computers, I know I know), Chrysler Vehicles to bail them out, and many other Distressed, near bankruptcy companies products.

This sort of Positive Government Help worked because it supplied ALL Government Agencies with the Exact Same Products and the Government Got Something for Their Dollars, not just a Smile and a Promise to Pay it Back that will never be kept .... we had Trucks, Cars, Guns, Computers, Clothing, Airplanes & Parts, Helicopters & Parts, and if you can name it, we bought it to save failing companies.

Why do we not do it that way now ???? I think we are all tired of Washington simply writing Blank Checks to these Thieves and want to see something for our money.
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Well....Bailing out ANY company is stupid....anytime or for any reason...PERIOD!!!...It was THEN...and it is NOW. It totally astounds me how ignorant the American public and it's so called LEADERS are in regards to free market principles.

If you start a business and you can NOT compete in the free market(which btw is BS)...then...There are can be ONLY 2 reasons why you fail.

1. You failed to provide quality goods or services at a competitive price.

2. You chose to enter the marketplace in a venue that has a granted government monopoly....Only a fool tries to compete with the force of government.

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Fo ---- I am not talking about Blanket Blank Check Bail Outs .....

I am talking about the Government, Contracting with a Company in Financial Distress for 'X' Number of Years, to Purchase their Product at a Competitive Price to help them thru a rough time.

I agree that most company Failures are due to Mismanagement and Simple Laziness of Over Paid Fat Cat CEO's and CFO's. They know their Blanket is Safe and Neatly Folded no matter if the company goes down the tubes or not.

But there truly are the rare ones that get into trouble because they made an honest mistake and it cost them more than they can absorb at one time .... do we just drop them on their chunks and watch Unemployment go thru the roof, or do we Contract With Them and Purchase Their Products until they are back on their feet ??

I vote to Contract With Them .... it has worked in the Past and there was no Blank Check Bail Out .... the company stayed open, workers stayed at work, groceries were bought, and people kept their homes and ate Breakfast, Lunch, and Supper.
(Dinner to you Yank's North of the Mason/Dixon Line ).
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Jugnaut Wrote:

mlb Wrote:

GGniner Wrote:Toyota, Nissan, Honda..., all doing just fine with their Union Free plants in non-Union friendly states(i.e. Red State America). Yet idiots in Michigan continue to vote for the leeches.

No idea about Toyota and Nissan, but I know that Honda has unions in its plants. The big difference between the American and the foreign guys are the number of retirees. The big 3 in America has a ton of legacy costs, the foreign companies don't have them *yet*.

Let the Big 3 die! Toyota, Hyundai, Nissan, Volkswagen, and other foreign companies are building plants here in America! Forget Detroit and their crappy cars. Buy good cars made by Americans in America, i.e. foreign brand cars. Most of the Big 3 cars are made in Mexico or elsewhere. Screw 'em.

You can't let the Big 3 die. There are too many businesses attached. Why are you going to penalize the people who make the brake lights, or the radios because GM makes ineffecient cars? They may make the best brake lights in the world. We have to bail them out with performance standards.

Help me out on this one. For years, I've read that the technology has already existed to build much more fuel-efficient cars but Detroit held back for various reasons.

So why did they hold back? Was it out of fear of future sales or was it due to pressure from the oil companies perhaps?

My question now is the car companies are doing horribly. But the oil and gas companies continue to rake in the bucks. Why can't the Exxon/Mobils and Shells of the world help bailout the auto companies. After all, their future could be in jeopardy if traditional cars go bye-bye and are replaced in the future by a new auto leader that builds exclusively electric or some other type of alternative fuel vehicles. Isn't in their best interest to control GM and Ford and Chrysler?

Fort Bend Owl Wrote:Help me out on this one. For years, I've read that the technology has already existed to build much more fuel-efficient cars but Detroit held back for various reasons.

So why did they hold back? Was it out of fear of future sales or was it due to pressure from the oil companies perhaps?

Because they didn't expect to make money. Did you really think the auto industry would make fuel inefficient vehicles out of goodwill to the oil companies? The only pressure that the oil companies could exert on auto makers is gasoline price, and that's largely out of their control anyways.

Fort Bend Owl Wrote:My question now is the car companies are doing horribly. But the oil and gas companies continue to rake in the bucks. Why can't the Exxon/Mobils and Shells of the world help bailout the auto companies. After all, their future could be in jeopardy if traditional cars go bye-bye and are replaced in the future by a new auto leader that builds exclusively electric or some other type of alternative fuel vehicles. Isn't in their best interest to control GM and Ford and Chrysler?

I'm guessing that in your question, you've already answered the first part. Oil companies are trying to diversify and become "energy supply" companies. In theory, if ethanol or some other portable fuel is used to fuel cars, those oil companies have a leg up in being the suppliers.

GGniner Wrote:Truman tried to nationalize the Steel industry and it was rejected as unconstitutional. However, I think its one of those things intrepreted different ways thinks to 14th? Amendment.

which constitutional Amendments are about as constitutional as it gets.


I say bailout the Auto Industry, if and only IF, the Unions are killed off for good(i.e. the Cancer of GM and Ford). Otherwise, die off already.

Toyota, Nissan, Honda..., all doing just fine with their Union Free plants in non-Union friendly states(i.e. Red State America). Yet idiots in Michigan continue to vote for the leeches.

Nothing about getting rid of the greedy incompetent top?

Fo Shizzle Wrote:

GGniner Wrote:Truman tried to nationalize the Steel industry and it was rejected as unconstitutional. However, I think its one of those things intrepreted different ways thinks to 14th? Amendment.

which constitutional Amendments are about as constitutional as it gets.


I say bailout the Auto Industry, if and only IF, the Unions are killed off for good(i.e. the Cancer of GM and Ford). Otherwise, die off already.

Toyota, Nissan, Honda..., all doing just fine with their Union Free plants in non-Union friendly states(i.e. Red State America). Yet idiots in Michigan continue to vote for the leeches.

I agree...I think the unions must GO if my stolen wages are to be used to bail them out. Its going to get interesting.

Yeah, those greedy bastards. How dare they make 60,000 a year. They must take less so the top management can get their millions in bonuses.