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Middle Ages Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Predictions
You know what it funny to me is that if you ask 5 Obama supporters why they are supporting Obama, you'll probably get 5 different answers (well, except maybe something about BUSH (except they can't say Bush, it has to be Dubya, Shrub, Junior, or something else derogatory)). I find that individual Obama supporters project their own hopes onto Obama- he is a blank slate. Credit should go to him for being an excellent campaigner and avoiding getting pigeon-holed into any position whatsoever. Of course, I must be a racist since I voted for McCain....that is the only legitimate reason right?


EDIT- maybe that post was a bit harsh. Someone (an Obama supporter) tell me again why Obama was a good choice?

EDIT#2- I just looked at the returns and apparently it is President-Elect Obama. So--why is that good again?
(This post was last modified: 11-04-2008 10:18 PM by Middle Ages.)
11-04-2008 10:13 PM
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Fort Bend Owl Online
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Post: #22
RE: Predictions
You know, McCain and Cornyn are only running at about 54 percent in Texas right now. Instead of obsessing about Obama and the democrats, maybe the republicans should take a hard look at their own party for a change and figure out what they need to fix.

Because I've got news for you, it's only going to get tougher in the future as minority populations continue to grow.

I voted for Obama in the primaries because I felt he had a better chance than Clinton to win tonight (still do and I think I was right - I'm not so sure Hillary would have won but maybe she would have). I voted for Obama in this election because I want America to have hope again and I want the world to respect America again. And despite what you think, it's clear that the majority of Americans feel the way I do.

Maybe you should respect our victory and for the good of the country, respect our new president.
11-04-2008 10:49 PM
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Chef Owl Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Predictions
Middle Ages Wrote:
Chef Owl Wrote:When Dubya was elected I thought that was bad, and IMHO, it has been pretty bad.

Yes- exactly ZERO terrorist attacks since 9/11/2001. That is bad.

Yes, because an economy that is in the crapper is so wonderful. And I am not just talking about the financial crisis that we are currently in. When Clinton left office the government had a financial surplus, something that had not happened before. It was all pissed away by the next administration and now there is a deficit that will probably never be paid off.

Being in a pointless war with no end in sight using military resources on a conflict with dubious justifications and no real goal is just peachy. Can we please get 4 more years of that.

Oh and lets not forget that the current administration was ready to throw out civil liberties in the name of "security" using a vague threat and the unbridled power of fear to coerce people into agreement.

Yeah, these past eight years have been a dream come true.
11-04-2008 10:50 PM
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Chef Owl Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Predictions
Middle Ages Wrote:I find that individual Obama supporters project their own hopes onto Obama- he is a blank slate.

You make is seem like this is a bad thing. Heaven forbid we should find some kind of hope coming from a candidate. Yeah, maybe it is our own hopes, but are there any other kind. I think that is why most people feel that they can support Obama because they feel that what they need, whatever that may be, will be met by Obama. Maybe it is all just wishful thinking, but you know what, it is nice to be a little wishful once and again.

Middle Ages Wrote:EDIT- maybe that post was a bit harsh. Someone (an Obama supporter) tell me again why Obama was a good choice?

EDIT#2- I just looked at the returns and apparently it is President-Elect Obama. So--why is that good again?

Why is McCain a good choice? It all comes down to what you think the person you vote for has in terms of value. Do you think McCain will be a good president and lead the country to good things? You apparently do. I happen to think that Obama is a better choice. I happen to think that Obama's administration will run things more akin to what I would do. If you want specifics on all the issues, well, I can hash out each one individually, but that would take all day.

Middle Ages Wrote:Of course, I must be a racist since I voted for McCain....that is the only legitimate reason right?

Really? You are really bringing that into this? I get so sick and tired of hearing that. And note that the only one bringing "race" into it is you. I never mentioned anything about it, but yet, "racism" rears its ugly head. You voted for McCain because you thought he was a good choice for president. (At least I hope that is why you voted for him.) I hate it when anyone, republican or democrat, white, black, asian or Latino brings up race. Yes, Obama is the first African American Candidate for president and would be making history if he were to be elected. But JEBUS!! Can we let it go. If you vote for McCain you are not a racist, nor if you vote for Obama does that make you black or whatever.

Middle Ages Wrote:(except they can't say Bush, it has to be Dubya, Shrub, Junior, or something else derogatory)
PS Yes I will keep calling him that because I think he is an idiot and I just don't like him. I think I have that right. He can call me whatever he wants.
(This post was last modified: 11-04-2008 11:06 PM by Chef Owl.)
11-04-2008 11:04 PM
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Middle Ages Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Predictions
Fort Bend Owl Wrote:You know, McCain and Cornyn are only running at about 54 percent in Texas right now. Instead of obsessing about Obama and the democrats, maybe the republicans should take a hard look at their own party for a change and figure out what they need to fix.

Because I've got news for you, it's only going to get tougher in the future as minority populations continue to grow.

I voted for Obama in the primaries because I felt he had a better chance than Clinton to win tonight (still do and I think I was right - I'm not so sure Hillary would have won but maybe she would have). I voted for Obama in this election because I want America to have hope again and I want the world to respect America again. And despite what you think, it's clear that the majority of Americans feel the way I do.

Maybe you should respect our victory and for the good of the country, respect our new president.

I never said I didn't respect him or the office. It just frustrates me.....you know what- I had several paragraphs written, but never mind. It is not going to change anyone's mind. Suffice it to say that we just elected the most liberal (realistic) Presidential candidate in any of our lifetimes, and I don't think that is a good thing.

Anyway- in contrast to the Democrats/ liberals during the last 8 years, I will always respect him and the office and only refer to him as President Obama- no childish derogatory names.

Forgive me if I have listened to the man's campaign for 21 months and have yet to figure out why someone that is even remotely moderate or conservative would vote for him.
11-04-2008 11:25 PM
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Almadenmike Online
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Post: #26
RE: Predictions
Excellent concession speech by Senator McCain tonight. The country will be much, much better off if all we join forces to work for our future success, rather than celebrating partisan differences (especially as evidenced by Shrub's eight years in the oval office). "We must move beyond... (our differences)."

Hear, hear!!

God Bless America. Now and going forward.
11-04-2008 11:28 PM
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Middle Ages Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Predictions
Chef Owl Wrote:
Middle Ages Wrote:
Chef Owl Wrote:When Dubya was elected I thought that was bad, and IMHO, it has been pretty bad.

Yes- exactly ZERO terrorist attacks since 9/11/2001. That is bad.

Yes, because an economy that is in the crapper is so wonderful. And I am not just talking about the financial crisis that we are currently in. When Clinton left office the government had a financial surplus, something that had not happened before. It was all pissed away by the next administration and now there is a deficit that will probably never be paid off.

Being in a pointless war with no end in sight using military resources on a conflict with dubious justifications and no real goal is just peachy. Can we please get 4 more years of that.

Oh and lets not forget that the current administration was ready to throw out civil liberties in the name of "security" using a vague threat and the unbridled power of fear to coerce people into agreement.

Yeah, these past eight years have been a dream come true.

Dream come true, no. But I guess I put a higher value on having no terrorist attacks in 7 years than some. I still remember 9/11/01 like it was yesterday.
(This post was last modified: 11-04-2008 11:34 PM by Middle Ages.)
11-04-2008 11:34 PM
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Middle Ages Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Predictions
Almadenmike Wrote:Excellent concession speech by Senator McCain tonight. The country will be much, much better off if all we join forces to work for our future success, rather than celebrating partisan differences (especially as evidenced by Shrub's eight years in the oval office). "We must move beyond... (our differences)."

Hear, hear!!

God Bless America. Now and going forward.

Well done. Joining forces already...
11-04-2008 11:36 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #29
RE: Predictions
Fort Bend Owl Wrote:Maybe you should respect our victory and for the good of the country, respect our new president.

I'll just wait and see what Obama we get.
I hope he'll be the consensus-building centrist that he claimed to be in his campaign speeches.
I fear he'll be the left-of-left liberal that he always has been.
Regardless, I think we're looking at a very bad next four years.
We have some fundamental problems that are much bigger than the occupant of the white house, whether that is Obama or McCain or Bush.
I respect the office of president, regardless of what I feel about the occupant.
(This post was last modified: 11-05-2008 12:39 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
11-05-2008 12:06 AM
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Middle Ages Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Predictions
Re-reading my comments, I don't really like the tone, although the emotions are genuine.
I congratulate President-Elect Obama and will respect him as long as he is the President. He ran an incredibly disciplined campaign and deserves credit for it. Good luck to him and his administration. He will be my President, regardless of whether or not I agree with his decisions.
11-05-2008 12:26 AM
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Caelligh Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Predictions
Hambone10 Wrote:
Caelligh Wrote:I don't like how McCain has been trending....
I think the gas comment is a huge over-statement...
As to the religious right...
Quote:As for foreign relations, Obama offers a fresh start...
You obviously don't know John McCain at all...

I will agree to disagree. I don't think anybody's mind is going to be changed at this point. 03-wink
11-05-2008 08:53 AM
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Owl-madeus Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Predictions
Middle Ages Wrote:Anyway- in contrast to the Democrats/ liberals during the last 8 years, I will always respect him and the office and only refer to him as President Obama- no childish derogatory names.

While that is certainly the higher road to take, at this point, I just can't take it. I fully intend to come up with a laundry list of diminutives and derogatory names for our President-Elect. The treatment that Bush has received during his tenure in office by his detractors has been completely over the top, and IMHO, unjustified. Historically, we've had a number of far worse Presidents who didn't have to endure nearly as much $#*&.

I just think it's Obama's turn. I'll leave turning the other-cheek to the religious right. 05-stirthepot
11-05-2008 10:15 AM
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UT Ceng Owl Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Predictions
Owl-madeus Wrote:
Middle Ages Wrote:Anyway- in contrast to the Democrats/ liberals during the last 8 years, I will always respect him and the office and only refer to him as President Obama- no childish derogatory names.

While that is certainly the higher road to take, at this point, I just can't take it. I fully intend to come up with a laundry list of diminutives and derogatory names for our President-Elect. The treatment that Bush has received during his tenure in office by his detractors has been completely over the top, and IMHO, unjustified. Historically, we've had a number of far worse Presidents who didn't have to endure nearly as much $#*&.

I just think it's Obama's turn. I'll leave turning the other-cheek to the religious right. 05-stirthepot

You really don't think he brought it upon himself? Do you think Palin didn't deserve the treatment she got, too?
11-05-2008 10:32 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Predictions
UT Ceng Owl Wrote:
Owl-madeus Wrote:
Middle Ages Wrote:Anyway- in contrast to the Democrats/ liberals during the last 8 years, I will always respect him and the office and only refer to him as President Obama- no childish derogatory names.

While that is certainly the higher road to take, at this point, I just can't take it. I fully intend to come up with a laundry list of diminutives and derogatory names for our President-Elect. The treatment that Bush has received during his tenure in office by his detractors has been completely over the top, and IMHO, unjustified. Historically, we've had a number of far worse Presidents who didn't have to endure nearly as much $#*&.

I just think it's Obama's turn. I'll leave turning the other-cheek to the religious right. 05-stirthepot

You really don't think he brought it upon himself? Do you think Palin didn't deserve the treatment she got, too?

No. And hell no. I think the word "mean-spirited" comes into play with regard to Palin's treatment.
11-05-2008 10:52 AM
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UT Ceng Owl Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Predictions
OptimisticOwl Wrote:
UT Ceng Owl Wrote:You really don't think he brought it upon himself? Do you think Palin didn't deserve the treatment she got, too?

No. And hell no. I think the word "mean-spirited" comes into play with regard to Palin's treatment.

From what I saw, her most publicly embarrassing moments were the Couric interview and the Sarkozy prank call. She had control over what she did in both of those situations and they still got out of hand. While she may have been a target of satire (i.e. Tina Fey), I think that she dealt with that well and those moments didn't really hurt her that much.
11-05-2008 11:24 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #36
RE: Predictions
UT Ceng Owl Wrote:
OptimisticOwl Wrote:
UT Ceng Owl Wrote:You really don't think he brought it upon himself? Do you think Palin didn't deserve the treatment she got, too?
No. And hell no. I think the word "mean-spirited" comes into play with regard to Palin's treatment.
From what I saw, her most publicly embarrassing moments were the Couric interview and the Sarkozy prank call. She had control over what she did in both of those situations and they still got out of hand. While she may have been a target of satire (i.e. Tina Fey), I think that she dealt with that well and those moments didn't really hurt her that much.

I don't think she deserved what she got, but I blame the McCain staff more than anyone else. I think they tried to get the Hillary sympathy vote by letting her be portrayed as some sort of battered woman that we'd all feel sorry for. I'm not even sure that the Couric deal wasn't part of that. I think they were afraid to turn loose Sarah the Barracuda, and I think that was a huge mistake.

Admit up front that she doesn't have extensive foreign policy experience. She's not the first person on a national ticket without it and she's got time to learn. What she does know about foreign policy is that if we don't solve our energy problem we are going to be in deep doodoo in foreign policy for a while, and as the only person with hands-on energy experience on either ticket, she recognizes the need for an all of the above energy strategy--including development of alternatives at warp speed, drill here, drill now, solar, nuclear, wind, sugar cane ethanol from Latin America, coal gasification/liquifaction, and probably some taxes on carbon use to pay for it (kinda like what she did in Alaska). What else she knows more about than anyone else on either ticket is what the economy is like in small-town America (where most of the undecided voters live). She's also the only one on either ticket who's ever actually run anything where she had to make a payroll. And although her own religious beliefs are conservative, she hasn't governed that way, enabling her to be very popular in the most libertarian state in the union. And, oh yes, she'll do Couric when Obama does Rush.
11-05-2008 11:40 AM
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JustAnotherAustinOwl Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Predictions
OptimisticOwl Wrote:
UT Ceng Owl Wrote:You really don't think he brought it upon himself? Do you think Palin didn't deserve the treatment she got, too?

No. And hell no. I think the word "mean-spirited" comes into play with regard to Palin's treatment.

This is such a funny double standard. Bush and the Republicans can call those who disagree with them "un-American" and not "real Americans" and suggest we side with terrorists, but call him Junior and it's an outrage...
11-05-2008 11:58 AM
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erice Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Predictions
Owl-madeus Wrote:While that is certainly the higher road to take, at this point, I just can't take it. I fully intend to come up with a laundry list of diminutives and derogatory names for our President-Elect. The treatment that Bush has received during his tenure in office by his detractors has been completely over the top, and IMHO, unjustified. Historically, we've had a number of far worse Presidents who didn't have to endure nearly as much $#*&.

Replace "Bush" with "Clinton" and that's exactly how I felt 8 years ago. In retrospect, it didn't make me feel any better.
11-05-2008 12:03 PM
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S.A. Owl Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Predictions
Sure, some of the Palin treatment was unfair and sexist (though really more from the blogosphere than from the mainstream media). But some of it was not; when you tout yourself, first and foremost, as a reformer, you'd best be ready for the inquiry into how you actually conduct business. And when you're an unknown striving for national office, you'd best expect that your knowledge of the issues will be tested.

Also, from the moment she walked on that St. Paul stage, she set herself up as a polarizing figure. You can say that's the VP candidate's job, but that's how she is now defined because no one knew much about her before that. She's smart and she'll be more ready on the issues in '12, but she may have a hard time shaking the culture warrior image.

P.S. OptimisticOwl - good call on the Russia test. Medvedev didn't even wait a day.
(This post was last modified: 11-05-2008 12:12 PM by S.A. Owl.)
11-05-2008 12:08 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #40
RE: Predictions
Owl-madeus Wrote:
Middle Ages Wrote:Anyway- in contrast to the Democrats/ liberals during the last 8 years, I will always respect him and the office and only refer to him as President Obama- no childish derogatory names.
While that is certainly the higher road to take, at this point, I just can't take it. I fully intend to come up with a laundry list of diminutives and derogatory names for our President-Elect. The treatment that Bush has received during his tenure in office by his detractors has been completely over the top, and IMHO, unjustified. Historically, we've had a number of far worse Presidents who didn't have to endure nearly as much $#*&.
I just think it's Obama's turn. I'll leave turning the other-cheek to the religious right. 05-stirthepot

I'll continue to respect the office of president of the United States.
After eight years of Bush, I've learned how to do that without respecting the man in that office, and that may or may not come in handy with Obama.

Right now, there's a huge question in my mind as to which Obama we are going to get. If we get the consensus-building post-partisan centrist that he describes in his stump speech, I'm fine with him. If we get the left-of-left liberal that he has consistently been throughout his prior political career, I'm not. If I need to take actions to protect myself from him and his policies, I will do so, and I will make preparations to take those actions while I'm waiting to figure out whether I need to take such actions or not. I guess I'd describe my mode as hoping for the best while preparing for the worst.

His speech last night offered promise of the centrist. But words are cheap, actions matter. My strongest impression of him at this point is that he's a street-smart south Chicago con artist, and we've all just been hustled. I hope that image fades, but there's been nothing so far (including last night's speech) to cause me to believe otherwise. Yes it was a good speech, but ask yourself what would a con artist have done differently.

If he's willing to meet me half way, or nearly there, I'll be happy to meet him. If all he wants is to drag me over to the left end of the political spectrum, I'll find the fence and jump over it.
11-05-2008 12:23 PM
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