why are we all sitting here blaming the government and the irresponsible companies and not apportioning any blame to the fiscally irresponsible American citizens? I realize the government and some corporations deserve a lot of blame, i'm not arguing with that. What pisses me off are the hundreds of thousands of irresponsible Americans who complain about not getting any government bailouts.

I'm sick of the lower middle class people who're bringing home 42" LCD TV's, when they could get a perfectly good TV for a quarter of the price.

I can't stand the people who buy a blackberry for their 13 yr old and then expect that child to grow up and become fiscally responsible.

What about the people who complain about gas prices while keeping their foot on the gas going into the red light and accelerating coming out of it?

Did you really have to be ignorant and buy a risky adjustable rate mortgage, instead of just buying a fixed one and then refinancing it down the line?

Let's please put some blame where it's deserved: the irresponsible American with his/her mountains of credit card debt. I realize there are a lot of hard working people, that spend responsibly and are still hurting, but at the same time there's a lot of of irresponsible people who are now complaining and whining about the president. Stop spending so much damn money!

Individual citizens who couldn't pay their mortages each contributed an insignificant amount to this crisis. Even if you assume the lendee & lender to each be 50% responsible for the mortage failures (I'd put the blame more on the lender, since they are supposed to be the professionals), you would still have to divide the lendee's responsiblity by the total number of defaults (or perhaps defaults per lending institution) to determine their fair share of the responsibility. Each individual made a single bad decision while the banks made the same bad decision many times over. The system is supposed to be able to absorb defaults and it is the responsibility of the banks to make sure they aren't taking on too much risk.

jh Wrote:Individual citizens who couldn't pay their mortages each contributed an insignificant amount to this crisis. Even if you assume the lendee & lender to each be 50% responsible for the mortage failures (I'd put the blame more on the lender, since they are supposed to be the professionals), you would still have to divide the lendee's responsiblity by the total number of defaults (or perhaps defaults per lending institution) to determine their fair share of the responsibility. Each individual made a single bad decision while the banks made the same bad decision many times over. The system is supposed to be able to absorb defaults and it is the responsibility of the banks to make sure they aren't taking on too much risk.

i didn't just speak about mortgages. Individuals need to assume some responsibility.

flyingswoosh Wrote:What about the people who complain about gas prices while keeping their foot on the gas going into the red light and accelerating coming out of it?

I still can't figure out why people accelerate up to red lights.

As for the rest of your comments, I agree, although it's mortgage companies' business to know who can afford mortgages and who can't. They don't have to be right all the time but they shouldn't be wrong so much they go bankrupt so we have to bail them out. Mortgage companies should dispense knowledge about mortgages to prospective customers and let them know how much they really can afford. That prudence apparently went out the window.

flyingswoosh Wrote:

jh Wrote:Individual citizens who couldn't pay their mortages each contributed an insignificant amount to this crisis. Even if you assume the lendee & lender to each be 50% responsible for the mortage failures (I'd put the blame more on the lender, since they are supposed to be the professionals), you would still have to divide the lendee's responsiblity by the total number of defaults (or perhaps defaults per lending institution) to determine their fair share of the responsibility. Each individual made a single bad decision while the banks made the same bad decision many times over. The system is supposed to be able to absorb defaults and it is the responsibility of the banks to make sure they aren't taking on too much risk.

i didn't just speak about mortgages. Individuals need to assume some responsibility.

The same principle applies. I agree that individuals are largely responsible for their own problems, particularly when it comes to credit cards & living beyond their means, but each individual is almost statistically insignificant in the big picture. I just reject any kind of collectivist definition which groups me in with those people.

jh Wrote:

flyingswoosh Wrote:

jh Wrote:Individual citizens who couldn't pay their mortages each contributed an insignificant amount to this crisis. Even if you assume the lendee & lender to each be 50% responsible for the mortage failures (I'd put the blame more on the lender, since they are supposed to be the professionals), you would still have to divide the lendee's responsiblity by the total number of defaults (or perhaps defaults per lending institution) to determine their fair share of the responsibility. Each individual made a single bad decision while the banks made the same bad decision many times over. The system is supposed to be able to absorb defaults and it is the responsibility of the banks to make sure they aren't taking on too much risk.

i didn't just speak about mortgages. Individuals need to assume some responsibility.

The same principle applies. I agree that individuals are largely responsible for their own problems, particularly when it comes to credit cards & living beyond their means, but each individual is almost statistically insignificant in the big picture. I just reject any kind of collectivist definition which groups me in with those people.

oh i'm definitely not grouping you and myself in with those people i described. That was definitely not my intent.

flyingswoosh Wrote:oh i'm definitely not grouping you and myself in with those people i described. That was definitely not my intent.

I understand where you are coming from.

It's just hard to rail against an irresponsible segment of the population without sounding like you (generally speaking, not you in particular) are including the entire population in the rant. You need a convenient target & big business & the government provide that. Rage needs a target and individuals just don't provide a big enough one.

flyingswoosh Wrote:why are we all sitting here blaming the government and the irresponsible companies and not apportioning any blame to the fiscally irresponsible American citizens? I realize the government and some corporations deserve a lot of blame, i'm not arguing with that. What pisses me off are the hundreds of thousands of irresponsible Americans who complain about not getting any government bailouts.

I'm sick of the lower middle class people who're bringing home 42" LCD TV's, when they could get a perfectly good TV for a quarter of the price.

I can't stand the people who buy a blackberry for their 13 yr old and then expect that child to grow up and become fiscally responsible.

What about the people who complain about gas prices while keeping their foot on the gas going into the red light and accelerating coming out of it?

Did you really have to be ignorant and buy a risky adjustable rate mortgage, instead of just buying a fixed one and then refinancing it down the line?

Let's please put some blame where it's deserved: the irresponsible American with his/her mountains of credit card debt. I realize there are a lot of hard working people, that spend responsibly and are still hurting, but at the same time there's a lot of of irresponsible people who are now complaining and whining about the president. Stop spending so much damn money!

Youre preaching to the choir on this one!!