Hambone10
Hooter
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RE: Obama's Birthplace?
Fanatical.... the fact that the suit is being publicized by a partisan publication has no bearing on the veracity of the suit. These are not claims they made up... they are claims a Pennsylvania Democrat made up. Actually, despite reporting it, the article pretty clearly says that many/most of the claims are patently at odds with law. It is hard to read that article and think that the reporter is trying to raise doubts about his eligibility.
Healthy skepticism is a good thing, but the fact that you would discount the suit entirely because of whom is telling you about it makes me question your objectivity. I haven't seen a patently "liberal" publication treat an unsubstantiated claim about McCain with such a dismissive tone. The question is, why a Democrat is bringing the suit.
And you call YOURSELF a liberal...
(This post was last modified: 08-26-2008 12:10 PM by Hambone10.)
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08-26-2008 12:09 PM |
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Fanatical
lost in dreams of hops & barley
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RE: Obama's Birthplace?
Actually, posters on this board call me liberal. And yes, I do dismiss world net daily simply because it has shown time and again to not be an objective news source. Most of my WND experience has come from scientific articles, not political; though they seem to want to politicize science. If this were from an AP wire, Reuters, BBC, even Yahoo! I might take this guy's claims against Obama seriously. It is nice that WND is calling this guy's claims as baseless; however, making much ado about nothing at all.
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08-26-2008 12:26 PM |
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Owl 69/70/75
Just an old rugby coach
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RE: Obama's Birthplace?
If his mother (or either parent) was a US citizen when he was born, then he is a US citizen by birth and the constitutional requirement is satisfied. This is the slam dunk to end all slam dunks, and I really can't imagine what the basis of the lawsuit is.
I guess that there could be an issue if the birth certificate is somehow fraudulent, but then the issue would be why would anyone have wanted to create a fraudulent birth certificate? Even if he were born in Kenya, there's no problem. If that's what happened, it must be for some other reason, and what might that reason be?
I suppose that if it were the father and not the mother who was the US citizen, someone might raise some kind of paternity issue. But as a Jewish friend of mine reminds me, Jewish law provides that it's whether the mother is Jew/gentile that governs, for the simple reason that you may not always know for sure who the father is, but it's pretty hard not to get the mother's identity right.
Sorry, I realize this is drifting into kook territory here, and I don't mean to. It's just that I'm trying to figure out how this lawsuit could have any kind of merit, and I'm coming up pretty empty.
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08-26-2008 01:23 PM |
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Hambone10
Hooter
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RE: Obama's Birthplace?
I don't get it either, and even what Fan apparently feels is a news source a little to the right of the Nazi party seems to agree with... hence my thought that this guy (a democrat) is trying to have it debated, debunked and decided long before election day.
Fanatical, i was referring to your "liberally intellectual" handle... and as I said... WND isn't the source of the story... the guy bringing the suit is... and it is apparently a real suit... even if it is entirely meritless.
he certainly is trying to make a point, though it is beyond me what that is.
69... purely for academic purposes... can one be born an American... give up citizenship (because SOME countries don't allow dual citizenship) and then take it back... and as long as you're here 14 years... you're good to go?? that, too seems to be one of the claims... though I would think he has satisfied AT LEAST that point.
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08-26-2008 03:09 PM |
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EastStang
All American
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RE: Obama's Birthplace?
There is also a statute involved as well. I don't remember the citation. But Owl is correct at least as far as the statute is concerned, if either parent is a US citizen, you are a U.S. citizen. The unlitigated issue to parse words in true Clintonian fashion is what the phrase "natural born" means. Does it mean born in the 50 states? Does it mean born in the 50 states, military installations and territories? Does it mean that you were born a US citizen due to lineage no matter where you were born? The Constitution doesn't say, US citizen, but natural born US citizen. So, there may or may not be a distinction between a citizen at birth and a "natural born" citizen. Reason would argue that if you were born a US citizen, then you qualify. But who knows perhaps there was something discussed at the time the Constitution was written where they only meant born on US soil as natural born citizens. That's why they have Courts.
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08-26-2008 03:11 PM |
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Hambone10
Hooter
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RE: Obama's Birthplace?
Stang... apparently (according to even the tight wing article above) that has already been decided... the Child of an American citizen born anywhere is an American by birth. the child of a foriegner born on American soil (which precedent would also include embassies and military bases) is an American.
i realize that is one of the points raised in the suit... but it has apparently been challenged before... just not by a Presidential candidate.
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08-26-2008 03:43 PM |
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