Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Why doesn't the press call Obama on this lie??
Author Message
Hambone10 Offline
Hooter
*

Posts: 40,279
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 1284
I Root For: My Kids
Location: Right Down th Middle

New Orleans BowlDonatorsThe Parliament Awards
Post: #1
Why doesn't the press call Obama on this lie??
Splitting and pasting this myself from another thread... Sorry if you are offended by the double post, but I think it is important.

Obama's trip to Iraq and Afghanistan was funded by the taxpayers... The European jaunt was funded by the campaign... which makes his excuse that he didn't go see the troops because the Pentagon ruled it would be a campaign stop, not a "state" stop all the more disingenuous... It was NEVER a state stop... and he found a way to avoid visiting those he wishes to lead so he could work out.

http://wcco.com/politics/obama.mideast.e...59222.html

Quote:The campaign also would not disclose the dates of any of the plans in an attempt to protect Obama's security. Obama's campaign manager said this past week that Iraq and Afghanistan would be part of an official congressional trip. The other stops are part of a campaign-funded visit.
And proof that his campaign believes that we will simply buy into whatever drivel they want to shove down or thoats

Quote:The Obama campaign’s chief spokesman, Robert Gibbs, said: “The senator decided out of respect for these servicemen and women that it would be inappropriate to make a stop to visit troops at a U.S. military facility as part of a trip funded by the campaign.”

Yes, it is entirely appropriate to visit and make a speech to 100,000 non-voters on foriegn soil as part of a campaign for the office of POTUS (his staff acknowledged MONTHS before the trip that it was a campaign stop, and would be paid for by the campaign)... but NOT appropriate to visit US citizens serving their country overseas who he hopes will vote for him as part of a campaign stop??

Seriously... Someone help me out here... How would it be disrespectful for a candidate for POTUS to spend campaign funds to visit our troops/voters?? I mean, I can understand how he would PREFER that the taxpayers fund his campaign like they did in Iraq and Afghanistan... but how exactly is it "disrespectful"??

MY take?? He was told that he was more than welcome as a Senator, but his visit could not be "political", thus the media would not be allowed to follow him, but just as they did in Iraq when he played basketball with the troops, the Military would provide media coverage.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2008 10:56 AM by Hambone10.)
07-25-2008 10:35 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


At Ease Offline
Banned

Posts: 17,134
Joined: Jun 2005
I Root For: The Rice Owls
Location:
Post: #2
RE: Why doesn't the press call Obama on this lie??
Ah, our faux outrage of the day.

I guess we're supposed to believe Obama went to the hassle of scheduling this visit, getting initial military clearance, arranging security, and getting the hopes up of those whose votes he'll need in 4 months.. all to decide to cancel it at the last second, opening himself up to this predictably horrible PR and disappointing the troops, so he could... hit the gym 01-wingedeagle . Or perhaps because it wasn't paid for him, as you know money is awfully tight these days in the Obama camp.

Or it could be that the Pentagon really did give late notice that the visit would be considered a campaign event and that:

Quote:Candidates for office have long been prohibited from engaging in political activities at U.S. military installations or using U.S. military personnel in their political appearances. Presidential campaign staffs generally are very familiar with these military rules.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/03/m...index.html

Surely there are ways to criticize Obama that don't requite a suspension of logic.
07-25-2008 10:59 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hambone10 Offline
Hooter
*

Posts: 40,279
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 1284
I Root For: My Kids
Location: Right Down th Middle

New Orleans BowlDonatorsThe Parliament Awards
Post: #3
RE: Why doesn't the press call Obama on this lie??
At Ease, it is YOU who is suspending logic.

First you say that he planned all along to make a political visit (because if it WASN'T a political visit, the rule aganist campaigning wouldn't have mattered), and then you quote a source that CLEARLY states that this has been a long-standing position AND something that campaign staffs are very familiar with that political visits are not allowed... So which is it?? Is it your contention that the entire DOD, not to mention the staffs at Ramstien somehow forgot until the last minute their longstanding rule... or more likely, did the DETAILS of the visit cause Obama to change his mind? Details like No Obama posters... no selective media... no speeches... Sure, my comment about the gym was a jab... but that IS what he did... according to der Spiegel. The Obama camp clearly knew, and stated it themselves in the June 29th quote that I linked above that the visits to France and Germany were not "official" business and would be paid for by the campaign. So on June 29th they knew they were paying for a campaign trip... and though he was welcome as a Senator (even on vacation) to visit troops, or just stop by at a US military installation to buy toothpaste at the PX... (they have a gym there, too, you know)... yet the Pentagon forgot to tell him until a few hours before the visit that the military considered the trip HE considered to be a campaign event... a campaign event??

You talk of logic, and yet you fail to follow your OWN post.

"Engaging in political activities" does NOT mean he can't visit them... Senators do it all the time, and he visited and played basketball with the troops before MILITARY media in Iraq. What it meant was that he could not stage interviews... he could not deliver a speech... He could not bring outside media onto the base... He could not CAMPAIGN... though surely, the personnel there KNOW he is running for President, and would have been impressed that he stopped by to see them and increase the chances that they vote for him...

I don't think he dropped the visit so he could work out... I think he dropped the visit because he couldn't take the throng of private media along with him. The hypocritical thing to ME is that this flies in the face of his speech in Berlin claiming not to be there as a candidate for President, but as a citizen of the world. I guess he forgot that he was ALSO a sitting Senator... and I guarantee that some of his constituents were at Ramstein.

This isn't faux outrage... Its asking you to stop suspending logic just because you like the guy.

Your handle potentially implies a military background. If so, you KNOW what constitutes a political visit... as does just about every politician who has ever run for school board, much less President.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2008 11:31 AM by Hambone10.)
07-25-2008 11:19 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fanatical Offline
lost in dreams of hops & barley
*

Posts: 4,180
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 24
I Root For: South Park Cows
Location: Luh-ville
Post: #4
RE: Why doesn't the press call Obama on this lie??
Seeing as how his time in Germany was funded by his campaign, it is easy to see that he could not visit a military installation. If his trip to Europe suddenly became privately or state funded, then it would be odd that he could not visit the military installation. Since it did not, this uproar seems foolish.
07-25-2008 11:40 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


jh Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,497
Joined: May 2007
Reputation: 80
I Root For:
Location:

Donators
Post: #5
RE: Why doesn't the press call Obama on this lie??
Hambone10, I believe the point the Obama camp is trying to make is that since his European trip was paid for out of his campaign funds, a visit to the base would be considered a campaign event regardless of what activities took place there. Since the Middle Eastern portion of the trip was paid for by our taxes (yay us), his visits to the military installations wouldn't be viewed as campaign events (unless he actually campaigned there).

I have no idea what the actual rules are or who told who what when and especially not what anyone's motivations are (sometimes not even my own). It would seem odd, however, for the Obama camp to completely misread a situation enough to think that cancelling a visit to wounded troops wouldn't blow up completely in his face, even if he wasn't going to be allowed to campaign there. That's just simple common sense.

Of course, if this entire campaign season has taught us anything, it's that common sense is in short supply.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2008 11:45 AM by jh.)
07-25-2008 11:44 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hambone10 Offline
Hooter
*

Posts: 40,279
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 1284
I Root For: My Kids
Location: Right Down th Middle

New Orleans BowlDonatorsThe Parliament Awards
Post: #6
RE: Why doesn't the press call Obama on this lie??
First, you are absolutely wrong that a US Senator cannot visit a military base simply because he is not on official business. Heck... I can visit a military base in Germany while on Vacation. I've done it. The rules on "campaigning" on military bases has nothing to do with who paid for you to fly there. There is a quote in the Pentagon response to the effect of.. Of course, as a Senator, he is welcome to visit the base at any time.

Besides... If his staff was telling the press more than a month ahead of the visit that it would be privately funded, then there was no last minute surprise.

Next untrue defense of his position??
07-25-2008 11:52 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
WoodlandsOwl Offline
Up in the Woods
*

Posts: 11,813
Joined: Jun 2005
Reputation: 115
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location:

New Orleans Bowl
Post: #7
RE: Why doesn't the press call Obama on this lie??
If a Senator or Congressman visits wounded at Walter Reed or Bethesda, how can you tell the difference if it is "political" or "official" business??

I think Obama was afraid of a "less than warm" welcome from the patients that would be captured by the media, or someone's hand held videocam, that would be on YouTube in 12 hours...
07-25-2008 12:01 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


Hambone10 Offline
Hooter
*

Posts: 40,279
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 1284
I Root For: My Kids
Location: Right Down th Middle

New Orleans BowlDonatorsThe Parliament Awards
Post: #8
RE: Why doesn't the press call Obama on this lie??
jh Wrote:Hambone10, I believe the point the Obama camp is trying to make is that since his European trip was paid for out of his campaign funds, a visit to the base would be considered a campaign event regardless of what activities took place there. Since the Middle Eastern portion of the trip was paid for by our taxes (yay us), his visits to the military installations wouldn't be viewed as campaign events (unless he actually campaigned there).

I have no idea what the actual rules are or who told who what when and especially not what anyone's motivations are (sometimes not even my own). It would seem odd, however, for the Obama camp to completely misread a situation enough to think that cancelling a visit to wounded troops wouldn't blow up completely in his face, even if he wasn't going to be allowed to campaign there. That's just simple common sense.

Of course, if this entire campaign season has taught us anything, it's that common sense is in short supply.

Okay... you're actually getting to my complaint.

Of course, when a candidate for President visits troops who can vote for him, it is somewhat of a campaign event... even if it is as a side-trip to an unofficial (privately funded) visit rather than part of an official (publicly funded) visit. Anyone who doesn't think Obama's "official" visit to Iraq wasn't a campaign stop didn't see the basketball pictures... but you didn't see any "Yes We Can" posters in the background, did you?? The QUESTION is then, how big is the audience. Campaigning ON a military base... the audience is generally the people on the base... plus a few short edited video clips and photos of which the campaign has no control over... not even a wink wink type of control. If you visit the VA hospital in Houston, you can have Katie Couric broadcast the event to the world. If you want to visit the hospital on the base in San Antonio (or Germany), you cannot.

Both you and At Ease have commented on the change of plans blowing up in his face"... Really?? SHow me the myriad of outraged articles in the press. Show me the headlines on the news. IMO, as the press would have been precluded from covering much of the event at Ramstein, they aren't complaining that he cut the visit... and Obama supporters aren't complaining either for fear of being cast into the fires of hell (05-stirthepot intended to be funny). As odd as it might seem for you that he would take this chance, it is even odder to me that the Pentagon and Staff at Ramstein (especially those charged with arranging visits like this one) would ALL suddenly "forget" the rules on campaigning. I suspect they have a folder... and when Obama's staff mentioned the possibility of a visit, they gave them the folder. Believe it or not, he's not the first candidate to visit a military base.

I don't think he (Obama) misread anything. I think he correctly calculated that if he couldn't broadcast his visit to Ramstein, that his political time was better spent doing something that COULD be broadcast... and since the press ALSO benefits from his change, there won't be many complainers with any ability to give the story legs... because it will be too easy to shout down anyone who points it out as being "politically motivated".

To answer your question WMD. The only difference between official and political is who paid for the car to get them there. That in no way impacts what you can and cannot do once you get there. You cannot campaign... which means you cannot bring your own (or public) media... you cannot hang signs... you cannot (generally) give a speech, and if you can... it must be heavily vetted so as to remove any political message (other than Go USA)... Honestly, that's about it.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2008 12:16 PM by Hambone10.)
07-25-2008 12:08 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Rebel
Unregistered

 
CrappiesNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #9
RE: Why doesn't the press call Obama on this lie??
Fanatical Wrote:Seeing as how his time in Germany was funded by his campaign, it is easy to see that he could not visit a military installation. If his trip to Europe suddenly became privately or state funded, then it would be odd that he could not visit the military installation. Since it did not, this uproar seems foolish.

He's a sitting United States Senator. He could have visited Landstuhl anytime he wanted to. That excuse is a buncha bull****.
07-25-2008 12:23 PM
Quote this message in a reply
Fanatical Offline
lost in dreams of hops & barley
*

Posts: 4,180
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 24
I Root For: South Park Cows
Location: Luh-ville
Post: #10
RE: Why doesn't the press call Obama on this lie??
Hambone10 Wrote:The only difference between official and political is who paid for the car to get them there. That in no way impacts what you can and cannot do once you get there.


Unfortunately, where the money comes from does matter. If Obama had gone to the base then we would be hearing about how he used his campaign finances to visit military bases; making it a campaign event. Yes, he can visit as a Senator, but he would have to change who funded the planes, the cars, the meals, the lodging, etc to either himself, or the state. If any of that would be tied to his campaign finances, then he would not be able to go.
07-25-2008 12:30 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


Hambone10 Offline
Hooter
*

Posts: 40,279
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 1284
I Root For: My Kids
Location: Right Down th Middle

New Orleans BowlDonatorsThe Parliament Awards
Post: #11
RE: Why doesn't the press call Obama on this lie??
Fanatical Wrote:
Hambone10 Wrote:The only difference between official and political is who paid for the car to get them there. That in no way impacts what you can and cannot do once you get there.


Unfortunately, where the money comes from does matter. If Obama had gone to the base then we would be hearing about how he used his campaign finances to visit military bases; making it a campaign event. Yes, he can visit as a Senator, but he would have to change who funded the planes, the cars, the meals, the lodging, etc to either himself, or the state. If any of that would be tied to his campaign finances, then he would not be able to go.

Yes, I hear all sorts of people (even Republicans) complaining that he went to Iraq and Afghanistan... [/sarcasm]

In fact, McCain had been complaining that he HADN'T gone... and NOBODY would have cared if he had spent his campaign money to do it...

Yes, people can complain about anything... whether it has merit or not... but as I said, who is paying for the trip has NO impact on what he can and cannot do on a military base. If you'll look, I was responding to WMD's postulate about visiting Walter Reed. This has nothing to do with whether he was in DC as a Senator, or taking his kids to see the Smithsonian. If he didn't know that he couldn't campaign on the base, then he absolutely proved that he doesn't know enough about the military to be CIC... and while I think he is inexperienced, he's not a moron.

As to the rest of your position... Much like planning ANY business trip, you have to have a legitimate business purpose in scheduling the event if you want to call it a business trip. What "business" purpose does the junior Senator from Illinois have in visiting Berlin? Now, if he were there to negotiate with BMW to bring a plant to Illinois, then fine... but otherwise?? and once again... he obviously KNEW it (going to France and Germany) was a campaign event a long time ago. As a member of the foriegn relations committee, the committee on veterans affairs and the Homeland Security committee.. he certainly has business in Iraq, Afghanistan and even Germany if he chooses to do that. But if his MAJOR event in Iraq had been a speech in Baghdad... It would NOT have been as a Senator, but as a candidate for President.

Either he thought that by visiting the base he could write off the trip (which I doubt given what they said earlier) and upon finding out that it wouldn't matter, they cancelled the visit...

or... they thought they could get some good pictures of him with the troops/injured and show him being "Presidential" but at the last minute, were told that even the military photographers would not take pictures of wounded soldiers (most likely in my mind), so they decided it wouldn't be worth the time...

or... they thought that they were getting more mileage out of the visits with foriegn leaders and/or needed to make up for some lost time (remember, they extended the Germany visit and cut France a bit short as well). Perhaps the lead-up to the speech took much longer than expected?? I don't know... but the excuses I'm getting don't hold water.

An HONEST answer might be... while I really wanted to visit with the troops, the security details of my speech in Berlin plus my scheduled visits with Merkel and (having a senior moment) The French President took longer than anticipated, and rather than embarass the country by standing up a foriegn dignitary, I decided to embarass myself and stand up the soldiers. Heck, he could have made himself look like a hero by planning a return trip JUST to Ramstien at his own expense. Sure, the right would complain, but it would be an example of Obama putting his country and his duty before himself... something I cannot see one example of him doing, while McCain has a career of it.

next??
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2008 01:17 PM by Hambone10.)
07-25-2008 12:56 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
jh Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,497
Joined: May 2007
Reputation: 80
I Root For:
Location:

Donators
Post: #12
RE: Why doesn't the press call Obama on this lie??
Hey, I was just going by the reactions on the message boards (though I think the Daily Show mocked him for it last night). If the message boards are saying it, O'Riley can't be far behind. The Olberman will make fun of O'Rilery for making fun of Obama and on we go. The wholde time the general public will be reminded that he cancelled a visit to a military hospital in Gernamy. And if McCain can't take advantage of this, he's a worse politician than I thought.

I know Jon Stewert is an evil liberal, always picking on those poor Republicans, but they've actually done quite a good job on this trip & the mainstream media love affair with Obama. The best clip was Wolf Blitzer of CNN. He asked a guest if the MSM was paying too much attention to Obama, then interupted the response for the breaking news, complete with cutaway graphics & everything, that Obama landed somewhere.
07-25-2008 01:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fanatical Offline
lost in dreams of hops & barley
*

Posts: 4,180
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 24
I Root For: South Park Cows
Location: Luh-ville
Post: #13
RE: Why doesn't the press call Obama on this lie??
I'm confused, are you upset that he wasn't able to visit the base because of his campaign, or that he wanted to visit the base during his campaign, but found out late that he could not?
07-25-2008 01:09 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


Rebel
Unregistered

 
CrappiesNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #14
RE: Why doesn't the press call Obama on this lie??
Fanatical Wrote:I'm confused, are you upset that he wasn't able to visit the base because of his campaign, or that he wanted to visit the base during his campaign, but found out late that he could not?

He should have visited the wounded troops at Landstuhl.
07-25-2008 01:28 PM
Quote this message in a reply
Hambone10 Offline
Hooter
*

Posts: 40,279
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 1284
I Root For: My Kids
Location: Right Down th Middle

New Orleans BowlDonatorsThe Parliament Awards
Post: #15
RE: Why doesn't the press call Obama on this lie??
Fanatical Wrote:I'm confused, are you upset that he wasn't able to visit the base because of his campaign, or that he wanted to visit the base during his campaign, but found out late that he could not?


Please read this carefully... because if you think EITHER of those things, you're not understanding the complaint.

There is NOTHING about his being a candidate for President that kept him from being allowed to visit the base. The only thing about being a candidate for President that COULD have stopped him is his priority list. He CHOSE not to come. He was NEVER told not to come. He WAS told (and should have known anyway) what he could and could not do while there. I guarantee that he would have been allowed to speak to someone high in the chain of command AND the troops, just as he did in Iraq. If this came as a surprise to him, then perhaps he should have made the trip to Iraq a year ago when he was telling these people how to do their jobs...

Had it been (as I suggested, not as HE suggested) that his schedule had gotten too tight to accomodate the visit, then he should have been honest about it rather than concoct this story that only people familiar with politicians visiting bases (who are probably slightly more inclined to vote for McCain anyway) would know was a lie. IMO, he should have visited the troops even if it meant he didn't sleep that night... but I'll be "fair" and say that I don't know exactly what the rest of his schedule was, so while I can't imagine many things more important for a potential CIC trying to dispel rumors of his lack of experience with military matters... I can't say with certainty that those things don't exist. If he was REALLY pressed for time, he CERTAINLY should have cancelled the workout.

I wouldn't have been upset if he'd been honest... but I'm sick and tired of people talking about how he represents change when just about every action he takes proves that he is AT LEAST as big a liar as the rest of them... Open your EYES people... Talk about an Emporer with no clothes!
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2008 01:40 PM by Hambone10.)
07-25-2008 01:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Rebel
Unregistered

 
CrappiesNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #16
RE: Why doesn't the press call Obama on this lie??
...so, it comes down to this. He didn't go BECAUSE he couldn't campaign there.
07-25-2008 02:13 PM
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.