esayem Wrote:

xubrew Wrote:

esayem Wrote:Last time I checked Memphis left the Metro, and Louisville, to create the Great Midwest with Cinci, Dayton, Marquette, UAB, DePaul, and St. Louis. Memphis wasn't even playing Louisville but was playing Arkansas, Tennessee, and Southern Miss every year in the mid-90's. I checked my Blue Ribbon yearbooks.

your point??

2 points, rather facts if you will.

1-Somebody said the Metro broke up, which was not true. Some schools left and eventually merged back to create the CUSA.

2-The Louisville/Memphis rivalry was not kept on a year to year basis when the schools were in different conferences in the past.

i said that it broke up, which was the completely wrong way of putting it. you're right.

it sounds strange and may be hard to understand, but the fact that it wasn't kept on a year to year basis is one of the things that kind of added to the rivalry, especially this last time around. the closest comparison i can make is west virginia vs marshall, and even the story behind that is completely unique unto itself. it's just that things that were said and done off the court from the two athletic administrations added quite a bit of fuel to a fire that was already pretty hot even though the two weren't playing each other.

could you imagine what would happen if florida came out and said "screw it. we're not playing florida state anymore. we have nothing to gain from that game and feel that we have bigger fish to fry." the game would stop, but the intensity and hatred and interest would not. louisville vs memphis isn't quite THAT extreme, but it is a situaiton where the rivalry didn't go away even though the games did.

Quote:To Louisville and Memphis fans, there may not be any rivalry in the BE that comes close to that one, but to Cuse fans and Georgetown fans there is no rivalry that comes close to that one in the BE. Each fan base gets excited about a certain team for various reasons, be it history, sharing the same state or city, or just bad blood between the 2 fan bases. I am more than a casual fan, and I did not know that the Louisville/Memphis rivalry was as intense as you guys are saying that it is until about the time that the new schools were invited to the BE. Up until now, I always thought that Louisville fans got excited most about playing Kentucky, and I still think they do. Most casual fans would think the same.

ul vs kentucky is probably a bigger rivalry, but it's a rivalry with a different feel. growing up as a cardinal fan, i always wanted to beat kentucky more than memphis. part of the reason is geography. you went to grade school and high school with kentucky fans, and they lived right across the street, and would be all over the local radio, and the bickering was constant. memphis was different because all of their fans were all the way down in memphis. however, memphis was a conference game, so it had that added intensity to it. in basketball, louisville played them twice a year instead of once. considering that it wasn't uncommon for the two to battle it out in the conference standings, it seemed as though louisville and memphis were competing against each other even when they weren't playing each other. the kentucky game was over once the final horn sounded and the winner had the bragging rights. with memphis, the two teams played twice, AND competed for the conference standings, and could even meet again in the conference tournament. there was never any closure. ie:

"we beat you."

"well, we beat you, too"

or

"we beat you twice"

"well, we won the league."

also, i just remember so many of the louisville vs memphis games being better, closer, more exciting games than a lot of the louisville vs kentucky games. don't get me wrong, there have been some classic ul vs uk games, but with ul vs memphis, it seemed to happen just about all the time, and there were more than twice as many of them.

To add to some of the lore 'brew listed(and these are just things I've read before) at one UL-UM game Memphis fans pelted UL players with pocket change. At another there was a brawl with one UM player wielding a folding chair like a club, swinging it around wildly. If anyone else has any fun trivia from this rivalry, feel free to include it.

I do think UL-UK is bigger, but as brew suggested it has a different nature to it.

Jackson1011 Wrote:

CardinalJim Wrote:A Louisville / Memphis match-up is NEVER lame. Pitino and Cal could agree to meet on the moon and the fans would pack the place. MSG is one of the few arenas outside of Louisville or Memphis that is good enough to host such a clash.
Outside of Cincinnati fans no one else in the Big East understands the Louisville / Memphis rivalry. There is nothing in the Big East that can touch it.
CJ

-- Wow, let me provide you with some info before you go and make crazy statments like that...

A) The UL/memphis basketball rivarly stated in 1949....and since then they have played 80 times with UL holding a 48-32 edge

West Virginia and Pitt have been playing basketball since 1904. In fact, WVUs first bball game ever was against Pitt. Since then, the two schools have played 175 times with WVU holding a 93-82 edge

B) UL and Memphis have started playing football in 1948, and since then have played somewhere in the neighborhood of 38 times give or take a meeting.

Pitt and WVU have been playing football since the early 1900s...and next years Backyard Brawl will be the 101st meeting between the schools

-- That combined with the success the two programs have had in football and basketball, plus the fact that they are less then 100 miles apart so the fans see each other all the time, plus the fact that they recruit the same area so the players in the games have likely been playing one another all there live...its a no contest. No doubt the UL/Memphis game is great, but it doesn't have near the history or a fraction of the intensity that Pitt/WVU has

I feeling admit that I don't fully understand the UL and UM games, but I would suggest you need to more fully understand the history of the conference your school belongs to...IMO the Big East has several rivalries that are bigger/more important nationally

Jackson

Jackson,
Hands down the Backyard Brawl is the best in conference football rivalry in the Big East. Your schools are what 80 something miles apart. It should be intense. If the two programs meet in cornhole there should be some fire. (Not just for couches BTW)
Louisville and Memphis is non -conference. My only question to you is...Can WVU and Pitt travel to a city like Dallas or Denver, schedule a regular season match-up against a traditional non-conference rival and sell out the arena? I know the Cardinals and Tigers can.
My point is there a few programs in the Big East that can meet anyone on a neutral floor, hundreds of miles from each of their home gyms, and the game be packed. Louisville and Memphis can do that.
It amazes how quickly everyone East of Morgantown dismisses anything that UofL or UC has done in the past or present. The Cardinals and Bearcats did well on the hardwood long before the Big East was ever a conference.
Since everyone here except, UC and Memphis fans, has given their opinion on Louisville and Memphis basketball history, I'll give you mine on Big East teams...
As much as WVU, Pitt and Syracuse try they will always be football first schools. Just as Louisville and Cincinnati will always be basketball first schools. The Orange have probably come the closest to making the transition to a basketball first program but missing the tournament the last few years hasn't helped.
UConn is most certainly a basketball first school. As for Rutgers, I'm not sure about them yet.
That's how I see the Big East today. I'm not saying I'm right, just my opinion. The point is we all have them. You may not ever fully understand a Louisville Memphis basketball game and I can't imagine that WVU fans could be any more hateful to Pitt than they are anyone else that visits Morgantown. If they were some Eer fans would end up in jail.
The next time some one throws a switch blade from the upperdeck and it sticks in mid-court during warm-ups of a Pitt WVU basketball game, let me know.
CJ

Y

xubrew Wrote:

Quote:To Louisville and Memphis fans, there may not be any rivalry in the BE that comes close to that one, but to Cuse fans and Georgetown fans there is no rivalry that comes close to that one in the BE. Each fan base gets excited about a certain team for various reasons, be it history, sharing the same state or city, or just bad blood between the 2 fan bases. I am more than a casual fan, and I did not know that the Louisville/Memphis rivalry was as intense as you guys are saying that it is until about the time that the new schools were invited to the BE. Up until now, I always thought that Louisville fans got excited most about playing Kentucky, and I still think they do. Most casual fans would think the same.

ul vs kentucky is probably a bigger rivalry, but it's a rivalry with a different feel. growing up as a cardinal fan, i always wanted to beat kentucky more than memphis. part of the reason is geography. you went to grade school and high school with kentucky fans, and they lived right across the street, and would be all over the local radio, and the bickering was constant. memphis was different because all of their fans were all the way down in memphis. however, memphis was a conference game, so it had that added intensity to it. in basketball, louisville played them twice a year instead of once. considering that it wasn't uncommon for the two to battle it out in the conference standings, it seemed as though louisville and memphis were competing against each other even when they weren't playing each other. the kentucky game was over once the final horn sounded and the winner had the bragging rights. with memphis, the two teams played twice, AND competed for the conference standings, and could even meet again in the conference tournament. there was never any closure. ie:

"we beat you."

"well, we beat you, too"

or

"we beat you twice"

"well, we won the league."

also, i just remember so many of the louisville vs memphis games being better, closer, more exciting games than a lot of the louisville vs kentucky games. don't get me wrong, there have been some classic ul vs uk games, but with ul vs memphis, it seemed to happen just about all the time, and there were more than twice as many of them.

You are correct. They played at least 2 times a year. Both had home games and they were always a sell out. I know there is probably older games in the big east but, I doubt over the years, that those two teams meet in the conference finals more than these two. Like WV vs Pitt, throw out the record, forget everything you know about these two schools, because it didnt matter. These two teams wanted to win. The bragging rights meant alot to these teams. Crowds went nuts, it didnt matter where it was played. I remember games at the mid-south colisium and I stood the whole game, and games at Louisville where you done the same thing. Even in the years when we werent the top teams, if we meet in the tournament before the final, that game would be better than the finals of the tournament.
Huggins at Cinn, turned up that rivalry real quick. The man, who Tiger fans hated more than Crum, which was to me was unbelievable, took over and brought new life into this rivalry. Huggins is a great coach and the coach Tigers love to hate, but you had to respect this man for what he had done. It wasnt until he appeared on Cal show, that we love this man but still hated him. It was so hard to get a victory from them. Huggy and Cal on TV is the best show of the year. When Cinn played us here, Huggy would be on Cal show. I think Cal might have been on in Cinn when we were the last game there. Dont know for sure. Huggins brought into this league, phyicallity. Some game look like a football game.Memphis vs Lousiville or Cinn was always on TV. Those games we could count on them for TV exposure. Heck, even the SEC schools knew of this rivalry here.

Quote:Jackson,
Hands down the Backyard Brawl is the best in conference football rivalry in the Big East. Your schools are what 80 something miles apart. It should be intense. If the two programs meet in cornhole there should be some fire. (Not just for couches BTW)
Louisville and Memphis is non -conference. My only question to you is...Can WVU and Pitt travel to a city like Dallas or Denver, schedule a regular season match-up against a traditional non-conference rival and sell out the arena? I know the Cardinals and Tigers can.
My point is there a few programs in the Big East that can meet anyone on a neutral floor, hundreds of miles from each of their home gyms, and the game be packed. Louisville and Memphis can do that.

-- Louisville and Memphis can do it for basketball. WVU and Va Tech could draw 75,000-80,000 fans for a neutral football game (provided it was on a weekend)anywhere from New Jersey to the Orange Bowl. Does that make the Black Diamiond game more important because it can draw more fans to a neutral location?

The point I'm trying to make is great rivalries go beyond one sport. They should be felt by the athletic department: football, mens bball, womens bball etc. I think that is something Pitt and WVU are fortunate enough to have. I also think thats something UL and UK enjoy.

UL and Memphis is a great bball rivarly, but I don't think it applies to the other sports. Certainly not in the same way Kentucky does to what I would guess would be the vast majority of UL fans

Jackson

The fact that both were conference rivals for so long is still in the minds of the fanbase. So, sure there is interest on both sides.

The same would be true if WVU played Boston College (what few fans they have), Penn State or Virginia Tech. Interest would be high because so many people remember when the 2 teams fought it out every year. The fanbases remain interested, even if the administrations don't. That's the nature of a rivalry. It takes a long time for them to fade into history, and for new ones to form strong bonds.

In this way, it is like all things...

CardinalJim Wrote:

Jackson1011 Wrote:

CardinalJim Wrote:A Louisville / Memphis match-up is NEVER lame. Pitino and Cal could agree to meet on the moon and the fans would pack the place. MSG is one of the few arenas outside of Louisville or Memphis that is good enough to host such a clash.
Outside of Cincinnati fans no one else in the Big East understands the Louisville / Memphis rivalry. There is nothing in the Big East that can touch it.
CJ

-- Wow, let me provide you with some info before you go and make crazy statments like that...

A) The UL/memphis basketball rivarly stated in 1949....and since then they have played 80 times with UL holding a 48-32 edge

West Virginia and Pitt have been playing basketball since 1904. In fact, WVUs first bball game ever was against Pitt. Since then, the two schools have played 175 times with WVU holding a 93-82 edge

B) UL and Memphis have started playing football in 1948, and since then have played somewhere in the neighborhood of 38 times give or take a meeting.

Pitt and WVU have been playing football since the early 1900s...and next years Backyard Brawl will be the 101st meeting between the schools

-- That combined with the success the two programs have had in football and basketball, plus the fact that they are less then 100 miles apart so the fans see each other all the time, plus the fact that they recruit the same area so the players in the games have likely been playing one another all there live...its a no contest. No doubt the UL/Memphis game is great, but it doesn't have near the history or a fraction of the intensity that Pitt/WVU has

I feeling admit that I don't fully understand the UL and UM games, but I would suggest you need to more fully understand the history of the conference your school belongs to...IMO the Big East has several rivalries that are bigger/more important nationally

Jackson

Jackson,
Hands down the Backyard Brawl is the best in conference football rivalry in the Big East. Your schools are what 80 something miles apart. It should be intense. If the two programs meet in cornhole there should be some fire. (Not just for couches BTW)
Louisville and Memphis is non -conference. My only question to you is...Can WVU and Pitt travel to a city like Dallas or Denver, schedule a regular season match-up against a traditional non-conference rival and sell out the arena? I know the Cardinals and Tigers can.
My point is there a few programs in the Big East that can meet anyone on a neutral floor, hundreds of miles from each of their home gyms, and the game be packed. Louisville and Memphis can do that.
It amazes how quickly everyone East of Morgantown dismisses anything that UofL or UC has done in the past or present. The Cardinals and Bearcats did well on the hardwood long before the Big East was ever a conference.
Since everyone here except, UC and Memphis fans, has given their opinion on Louisville and Memphis basketball history, I'll give you mine on Big East teams...
As much as WVU, Pitt and Syracuse try they will always be football first schools. Just as Louisville and Cincinnati will always be basketball first schools. The Orange have probably come the closest to making the transition to a basketball first program but missing the tournament the last few years hasn't helped.

I must say that this is the first time that I have ever heard a non Cuse fan classify SU as a football first school. Even when we were good at football, folks still called us a basketball first school. I have always thought of SU as a football first school, but I could never convince others that we were.

Syracuse has only missed the NCAA's 2 years, but I am pretty sure we wont miss them this year.

Jackson1011 Wrote:UL and Memphis is a great bball rivarly, but I don't think it applies to the other sports. Certainly not in the same way Kentucky does to what I would guess would be the vast majority of UL fans

The Tiger-Cardinal football rivalry had heated up to near boiling point just prior to realignment. I expect that electric atmosphere to pick up where it left off in the upcoming Friday night ESPN game this Fall.

Gray Avenger Wrote:

Jackson1011 Wrote:UL and Memphis is a great bball rivarly, but I don't think it applies to the other sports. Certainly not in the same way Kentucky does to what I would guess would be the vast majority of UL fans

The Tiger-Cardinal football rivalry had heated up to near boiling point just prior to realignment. I expect that electric atmosphere to pick up where it left off in the upcoming Friday night ESPN game this Fall.

I would expect that the Big East banner being flown over PJCS on that faithful day had something to do with that.
CJ

cuseroc Wrote:I must say that this is the first time that I have ever heard a non Cuse fan classify SU as a football first school. Even when we were good at football, folks still called us a basketball first school. I have always thought of SU as a football first school, but I could never convince others that we were.

I must admit I am some what biased. I'm a huge, long suffering Cleveland Browns fan. When I think of Syracuse, I immediately think of Jim Brown. Lately it's Marvin Harrison and Donovan McNabb. Aside from Carmelo Anthony, I can't tell you another great Syracuse basketball player's name and I know there are and have been many.
CJ

gdayre Wrote:

Frank the Tank Wrote:

xubrew Wrote:

KnightLight Wrote:

xubrew Wrote:i don't think playing it in nyc would make all that much difference...if any.

I don't think you understand how UL and Memphis would both receive HUGE NATIONAL MEDIA EXPOSURE (even from non-sport outlets) if the game was played in NYC.

Yes...this game would get some nice exposure wherever it plays, but one can multiple it by 5-10 if the game was played in NYC...where Pitino/Calipari are still pretty popular today.

Duke/UNC is basketball tradition...especially with all their recent national titles between them while UL last won a national title in '86...and Memphis, while enjoying a 3 year Elite 8 streak, has never won one.

There is a BIG reason why Calipari/Pitino would prefer to have the game in NYC than say Nashville.

Its ok if you don't understand.

PS. Also probably having the best of the best prep kids from NYC area at the game as well would be a huge recruiting opportunity for both coaches...and they both know it.

i understand it to a point, but it isn't as if it's george washington or davidson or someone like that where the big time media exposure could help them get to some sort of next level. as far as a national audience is concerned, people in alabama or north carolina or texas don't care if the game is played in nyc or not. yes, more media can be there in person, but it isn't as if the game wouldn't make a huge blip on the national media anyway.

i'm not saying that there aren't some benefits to having it in nyc. i'm just saying that both teams are giving up something to get those benefits, and i wonder if it's really worth losing what they're losing to gain what they're gaining. what they're giving up is an electric atmosphere in a sold out 20,000+ seat arena with a crowd split down the middle. games like that tend to make for better television than a preseason nit semifinal game between two non-new york based schools. they're also probably giving up something when it comes to the gate (not that either school really needs it, though). the game means more to the people in kentucky and tennessee than it does to the people in new york city. louisville already plays saint john's and the big east tournament in msg, so it isn't as if this game is exposing them to a new market. they're already there at least once a year anyway on a very big stage.

it looks as though you're a ucf fan. i wonder what louisville and memphis fans fell about this. i'd be willing to bet they'd probably prefer to have it as a home-and-home or in nashville. i don't know what your ties to nyc are or how much of a finger you have on the sports scene of the city, but i don't see a louisville vs memphis game being something that takes the nyc sports world by storm the same way it would take the nashville area by storm. i know pitino and calipari were once coaches in that area, but that was a long time ago.

I think that the comparison with the Preseason NIT is right on the money - that tournament typically features very good or even great match-ups on par with Louisville-Memphis, but there's not really any residual buzz or extra media attention just because the games are at MSG. The Coaches vs. Cancer finals and Jimmy V Classic also usually feature top-level teams at MSG but the arena is rarely even close to full (much less electric) unless Duke, Syracuse or UConn are involved. It's fool's gold to think that renting out MSG for an evening is going to create some type of national or NYC media hype for two teams that have very little connection to New York in terms of their fan bases (regardless of the East Coast roots of their coaches). Now, if Louisville or Memphis were able to get a game with Duke at MSG, on the other hand, then you'd get some extra attention. As suggested by others, Louisville-Memphis should really be home-and-home or at a southern neutral site such as Nashville.

If you would have said North Carolina, i might had believe what you said. No body is buying Duke since Williams showed up.

Look, I hate Puke as much as anyone, but that doesn't change the fact that the NYC media pays attention to them even if they don't deserve it by their play on the court (same thing with Notre Dame football). I'm just looking at it as which teams would sell out MSG and Duke is pretty much near or at the top of the list no matter how well they are doing.

xubrew Wrote:

esayem Wrote:

xubrew Wrote:

esayem Wrote:Last time I checked Memphis left the Metro, and Louisville, to create the Great Midwest with Cinci, Dayton, Marquette, UAB, DePaul, and St. Louis. Memphis wasn't even playing Louisville but was playing Arkansas, Tennessee, and Southern Miss every year in the mid-90's. I checked my Blue Ribbon yearbooks.

your point??

2 points, rather facts if you will.

1-Somebody said the Metro broke up, which was not true. Some schools left and eventually merged back to create the CUSA.

2-The Louisville/Memphis rivalry was not kept on a year to year basis when the schools were in different conferences in the past.

i said that it broke up, which was the completely wrong way of putting it. you're right.

it sounds strange and may be hard to understand, but the fact that it wasn't kept on a year to year basis is one of the things that kind of added to the rivalry, especially this last time around. the closest comparison i can make is west virginia vs marshall, and even the story behind that is completely unique unto itself. it's just that things that were said and done off the court from the two athletic administrations added quite a bit of fuel to a fire that was already pretty hot even though the two weren't playing each other.

could you imagine what would happen if florida came out and said "screw it. we're not playing florida state anymore. we have nothing to gain from that game and feel that we have bigger fish to fry." the game would stop, but the intensity and hatred and interest would not. louisville vs memphis isn't quite THAT extreme, but it is a situaiton where the rivalry didn't go away even though the games did.

Actually I know exactly what you're saying. I can think of two right away, Miami/Florida and Penn State/Pitt. Huge rivalries that are still on the rocks. (edit)-I think some would also put Texas/Arkansas, though they have played recently.

CardinalJim Wrote:

Gray Avenger Wrote:

Jackson1011 Wrote:UL and Memphis is a great bball rivarly, but I don't think it applies to the other sports. Certainly not in the same way Kentucky does to what I would guess would be the vast majority of UL fans

The Tiger-Cardinal football rivalry had heated up to near boiling point just prior to realignment. I expect that electric atmosphere to pick up where it left off in the upcoming Friday night ESPN game this Fall.

I would expect that the Big East banner being flown over PJCS on that faithful day had something to do with that.
CJ

The Memphis fans sure did enjoy the game up there in 2003 more than you guys. The 2004 game in Memphis is still one of the best games I have attended.

Elvis,
I was at that game. Petrino didn't lose many games here. Matter of fact that's the only home game he lost as head coach. I don't believe I saw his team ever get beat like he did in that game. Joe Lee Dunn had your Tigers all over the field that day. One of the best defensive efforts I have ever seen against a Petrino offense.
CJ

CardinalJim Wrote:Elvis,
I was at that game. Petrino didn't lose many games here. Matter of fact that's the only home game he lost as head coach. I don't believe I saw his team ever get beat like he did in that game. Joe Lee Dunn had your Tigers all over the field that day. One of the best defensive efforts I have ever seen against a Petrino offense.
CJ

i agree...it was one of those "perfect storm" type games...what was the final 37-7? i really don't remember, it was over at the half, all the UL fans left...UL got us back the next season...but you gotta admit CJ, we gave you all you wanted in the Liberty Bowl that day, lol...what a game it was.

Go Tigers!!!
Drew

UofMemphis Wrote:

CardinalJim Wrote:Elvis,
I was at that game. Petrino didn't lose many games here. Matter of fact that's the only home game he lost as head coach. I don't believe I saw his team ever get beat like he did in that game. Joe Lee Dunn had your Tigers all over the field that day. One of the best defensive efforts I have ever seen against a Petrino offense.
CJ

i agree...it was one of those "perfect storm" type games...what was the final 37-7? i really don't remember, it was over at the half, all the UL fans left...UL got us back the next season...but you gotta admit CJ, we gave you all you wanted in the Liberty Bowl that day, lol...what a game it was.

Go Tigers!!!
Drew

Drew,
I think we scored the first TD in that game and didn't score again. I was at the game and all I remember was how sunny and cold it was that day and ya'll kept scoring. It was miserable.
I remember the following season in 2004, 56-49 at your place. No defense in the game. It looked like an old WAC contest. At wasn't at that one but it must have been an electric atmosphere.
CJ