xubrew Wrote:i don't think playing it in nyc would make all that much difference...if any.

I don't think you understand how UL and Memphis would both receive HUGE NATIONAL MEDIA EXPOSURE (even from non-sport outlets) if the game was played in NYC.

Yes...this game would get some nice exposure wherever it plays, but one can multiple it by 5-10 if the game was played in NYC...where Pitino/Calipari are still pretty popular today.

Duke/UNC is basketball tradition...especially with all their recent national titles between them while UL last won a national title in '86...and Memphis, while enjoying a 3 year Elite 8 streak, has never won one.

There is a BIG reason why Calipari/Pitino would prefer to have the game in NYC than say Nashville.

Its ok if you don't understand.

PS. Also probably having the best of the best prep kids from NYC area at the game as well would be a huge recruiting opportunity for both coaches...and they both know it.

KnightLight Wrote:

xubrew Wrote:i don't think playing it in nyc would make all that much difference...if any.

I don't think you understand how UL and Memphis would both receive HUGE NATIONAL MEDIA EXPOSURE (even from non-sport outlets) if the game was played in NYC.

Yes...this game would get some nice exposure wherever it plays, but one can multiple it by 5-10 if the game was played in NYC...where Pitino/Calipari are still pretty popular today.

Duke/UNC is basketball tradition...especially with all their recent national titles between them while UL last won a national title in '86...and Memphis, while enjoying a 3 year Elite 8 streak, has never won one.

There is a BIG reason why Calipari/Pitino would prefer to have the game in NYC than say Nashville.

Its ok if you don't understand.

PS. Also probably having the best of the best prep kids from NYC area at the game as well would be a huge recruiting opportunity for both coaches...and they both know it.

i understand it to a point, but it isn't as if it's george washington or davidson or someone like that where the big time media exposure could help them get to some sort of next level. as far as a national audience is concerned, people in alabama or north carolina or texas don't care if the game is played in nyc or not. yes, more media can be there in person, but it isn't as if the game wouldn't make a huge blip on the national media anyway.

i'm not saying that there aren't some benefits to having it in nyc. i'm just saying that both teams are giving up something to get those benefits, and i wonder if it's really worth losing what they're losing to gain what they're gaining. what they're giving up is an electric atmosphere in a sold out 20,000+ seat arena with a crowd split down the middle. games like that tend to make for better television than a preseason nit semifinal game between two non-new york based schools. they're also probably giving up something when it comes to the gate (not that either school really needs it, though). the game means more to the people in kentucky and tennessee than it does to the people in new york city. louisville already plays saint john's and the big east tournament in msg, so it isn't as if this game is exposing them to a new market. they're already there at least once a year anyway on a very big stage.

it looks as though you're a ucf fan. i wonder what louisville and memphis fans fell about this. i'd be willing to bet they'd probably prefer to have it as a home-and-home or in nashville. i don't know what your ties to nyc are or how much of a finger you have on the sports scene of the city, but i don't see a louisville vs memphis game being something that takes the nyc sports world by storm the same way it would take the nashville area by storm. i know pitino and calipari were once coaches in that area, but that was a long time ago.

cuseroc Wrote:

CardinalJim Wrote:A Louisville / Memphis match-up is NEVER lame. Pitino and Cal could agree to meet on the moon and the fans would pack the place. MSG is one of the few arenas outside of Louisville or Memphis that is good enough to host such a clash.
Outside of Cincinnati fans no one else in the Big East understands the Louisville / Memphis rivalry. There is nothing in the Big East that can touch it.CJ

You must have forgotten about the Georgetown/Syracuse rivalry, and the Georgetown/Nova rivalry, and the Syracuse/Uconn rivalry.

In my eyes, the Louisville/Kentucky rivalry is bigger than Louisville/Memphis rivalry. I would think that nationally, it is seen as a bigger rivalry as well.

I normally respect your comments cuseroc but you do not have the right perspective to speak about Memphis/UoL thing. There is a long history between the two schools in terms of hoops; much longer than even Cuse/UConn, Georgetown/Cuse and Georgetown/Nova.

Memphis fans may see things differently than Louisville, but I would guess most would not.

The ACC/Big East re-alignment damaged a rivalry trifecta; Memphis being damaged by the realignment more so than any other school probably, sans the Cal factor. I would say a lot of folks in the UC and UoL camps would like to see Memphis back in the fold.

Correction Xubrew, after the metro break up We then joined to help form the Great Midwest Conference(along with Depaul and Marquette and others) and then turned it into CUSA. I am not sure if there was a break in there or not. I have heard, back in the metro, the schools wanted to start a football league and Howard at that time didnt want to be in the same league with Memphis. I believe at that time Louisville was a very good football school . Rumor has it that he didnt want to share their fb revenue at the time. I have no information whether any of that part is true or not. I will not speak for any card fans. but Memphis has always considered Louisville our biggest rivalry and Cincinatii our other one. Those 3 schools have always had hard fought games against each other. I can pretty much remembering seeing those games on TV, here in Memphis, whether we played them here or there. The games, I attended, the atmosphere was electic.especially in MSC. The fans where just as much as a rivalry as the games where. Dang, I miss those kinda games. UAB tries but it isnt even close.

gdayre Wrote:Correction Xubrew, after the metro break up We then joined to help form the Great Midwest Conference(along with Depaul and Marquette and others) and then turned it into CUSA. I am not sure if there was a break in there or not. I have heard, back in the metro, the schools wanted to start a football league and Howard at that time didnt want to be in the same league with Memphis. I believe at that time Louisville was a very good football school . Rumor has it that he didnt want to share their fb revenue at the time. I have no information whether any of that part is true or not. I will not speak for any card fans. but Memphis has always considered Louisville our biggest rivalry and Cincinatii our other one. Those 3 schools have always had hard fought games against each other. I can pretty much remembering seeing those games on TV, here in Memphis, whether we played them here or there. The games, I attended, the atmosphere was electic.especially in MSC. The fans where just as much as a rivalry as the games where. Dang, I miss those kinda games. UAB tries but it isnt even close.

I think FSU for sure and perhaps USC had something to do with keeping the Metro from forming a football alliance/conference as well. Somebody knows for sure; just not me.

how the hell did i forget to mention dana kirk in my history of the rivalry???

dana kirk was a former louisville assistant who took the head coaching job at memphis. i don't think cardinal fans hated him quite as much as kentucky fans hated pitino for landing at louisville, but many were none too happy, and the two coaching staffs proceeded to hate his guts for the next ten or so years.

if these two teams want to play in msg, then they should play someone other than each other. i can't help but think that this game doesn't belong in new york. it belongs in louisville, memphis or nashville. there is just too much intensity and history to play it somewhere else. this is not a game that nyc would embrace or care about all that much, at least not as much as they would in nashville, memphis or louisville. that's something that fans of other teams might not understand, but it's the truth. this game doesn't belong in nyc, imho. there are plenty of other college basketball teams that nyc cares more about than louisville or memphis that either of those teams coulld schedule in msg if they're after the exposure of the nyc market. hell, louisville plays there at least once a year anyway, and usually more.

Back then, most of the players for Memphis was from Memphis. We didnt recruit much from our own backyard. Keith Lee, Bedford ,Turner.

Tigeer Wrote:

cuseroc Wrote:

CardinalJim Wrote:A Louisville / Memphis match-up is NEVER lame. Pitino and Cal could agree to meet on the moon and the fans would pack the place. MSG is one of the few arenas outside of Louisville or Memphis that is good enough to host such a clash.
Outside of Cincinnati fans no one else in the Big East understands the Louisville / Memphis rivalry. There is nothing in the Big East that can touch it.CJ

You must have forgotten about the Georgetown/Syracuse rivalry, and the Georgetown/Nova rivalry, and the Syracuse/Uconn rivalry.

In my eyes, the Louisville/Kentucky rivalry is bigger than Louisville/Memphis rivalry. I would think that nationally, it is seen as a bigger rivalry as well.

I normally respect your comments cuseroc but you do not have the right perspective to speak about Memphis/UoL thing. There is a long history between the two schools in terms of hoops; much longer than even Cuse/UConn, Georgetown/Cuse and Georgetown/Nova.

Memphis fans may see things differently than Louisville, but I would guess most would not.

The ACC/Big East re-alignment damaged a rivalry trifecta; Memphis being damaged by the realignment more so than any other school probably, sans the Cal factor. I would say a lot of folks in the UC and UoL camps would like to see Memphis back in the fold.

I believe that I do have the right perspective regarding the Memphis Louisville rivalry. Do I really have to know the intimate details of the rivalry to to know if other rivalries in the BE can matchup? Maybe Louisville fans would get more excited about the UL/Memphis game than any other game, but will BE fans be more excited about that game than some of the other BE rivalries? Thats the perspective that I am speaking from. There are rivalries in the BE that will generate as much or more national interest as that game. I just dont believe that it is correct to make a blanket statement to say that "There is nothing in the BE that can touch the Memphis/Louisville rivalry", when clearly there is. My views are not meant to disrespect Memphis nor Louisville. But one should not dismiss what other BE teams have done.

To Louisville and Memphis fans, there may not be any rivalry in the BE that comes close to that one, but to Cuse fans and Georgetown fans there is no rivalry that comes close to that one in the BE. Each fan base gets excited about a certain team for various reasons, be it history, sharing the same state or city, or just bad blood between the 2 fan bases. I am more than a casual fan, and I did not know that the Louisville/Memphis rivalry was as intense as you guys are saying that it is until about the time that the new schools were invited to the BE. Up until now, I always thought that Louisville fans got excited most about playing Kentucky, and I still think they do. Most casual fans would think the same.

As for the Syracuse/Georgetown rivalry, it started in the late 70s when JT2 and his mighty Georgetown team came into SU's old arena, Manley Field House and beatup on my Orange in the very last game ever played at Manley Field House. And JT2 went to the mike and said something to this affect, "Manley FieldHouse is officially closed". From that point on, the 2 fanbases hated each other. Thruout the years those games were always played to a national tv audiance, and the atmosphere is fantastic. The games are always close, and it doesnt matter which team is better on paper or having the better season, as either team can always beat the other.

And it was THE game to watch in the 70's and 80's and part of the 90's. That rivalry was every bit as intense as UNC/Duke is today, but unfortunately Georgetown went on a decade or more hiatus that caused the rivalry to die a little. But it will pickup some more steam this year. And it is still, to most BE fans the best rivalry in the BE in bb, and every bit as intense as a UL/Memphis rivalry. Nationaly, I would think that most fans would see it that way.

BTW; SU and Georgetown have been playing each other long before the BE was formed and they are both top 10 teams all time.

xubrew Wrote:

KnightLight Wrote:

xubrew Wrote:i don't think playing it in nyc would make all that much difference...if any.

I don't think you understand how UL and Memphis would both receive HUGE NATIONAL MEDIA EXPOSURE (even from non-sport outlets) if the game was played in NYC.

Yes...this game would get some nice exposure wherever it plays, but one can multiple it by 5-10 if the game was played in NYC...where Pitino/Calipari are still pretty popular today.

Duke/UNC is basketball tradition...especially with all their recent national titles between them while UL last won a national title in '86...and Memphis, while enjoying a 3 year Elite 8 streak, has never won one.

There is a BIG reason why Calipari/Pitino would prefer to have the game in NYC than say Nashville.

Its ok if you don't understand.

PS. Also probably having the best of the best prep kids from NYC area at the game as well would be a huge recruiting opportunity for both coaches...and they both know it.

i understand it to a point, but it isn't as if it's george washington or davidson or someone like that where the big time media exposure could help them get to some sort of next level. as far as a national audience is concerned, people in alabama or north carolina or texas don't care if the game is played in nyc or not. yes, more media can be there in person, but it isn't as if the game wouldn't make a huge blip on the national media anyway.

i'm not saying that there aren't some benefits to having it in nyc. i'm just saying that both teams are giving up something to get those benefits, and i wonder if it's really worth losing what they're losing to gain what they're gaining. what they're giving up is an electric atmosphere in a sold out 20,000+ seat arena with a crowd split down the middle. games like that tend to make for better television than a preseason nit semifinal game between two non-new york based schools. they're also probably giving up something when it comes to the gate (not that either school really needs it, though). the game means more to the people in kentucky and tennessee than it does to the people in new york city. louisville already plays saint john's and the big east tournament in msg, so it isn't as if this game is exposing them to a new market. they're already there at least once a year anyway on a very big stage.

it looks as though you're a ucf fan. i wonder what louisville and memphis fans fell about this. i'd be willing to bet they'd probably prefer to have it as a home-and-home or in nashville. i don't know what your ties to nyc are or how much of a finger you have on the sports scene of the city, but i don't see a louisville vs memphis game being something that takes the nyc sports world by storm the same way it would take the nashville area by storm. i know pitino and calipari were once coaches in that area, but that was a long time ago.

I think that the comparison with the Preseason NIT is right on the money - that tournament typically features very good or even great match-ups on par with Louisville-Memphis, but there's not really any residual buzz or extra media attention just because the games are at MSG. The Coaches vs. Cancer finals and Jimmy V Classic also usually feature top-level teams at MSG but the arena is rarely even close to full (much less electric) unless Duke, Syracuse or UConn are involved. It's fool's gold to think that renting out MSG for an evening is going to create some type of national or NYC media hype for two teams that have very little connection to New York in terms of their fan bases (regardless of the East Coast roots of their coaches). Now, if Louisville or Memphis were able to get a game with Duke at MSG, on the other hand, then you'd get some extra attention. As suggested by others, Louisville-Memphis should really be home-and-home or at a southern neutral site such as Nashville.

That last game ( the DWash free throw game) was in Memphis and on CBS.
I think it might still be the highest rated league championship ever.

ESPN also had their Game Day at the UL/Memphis game that year. Then
there was "Rivalry Week".

Neither program needs MSG for the exposure, and both Cal and Pitino
seem to recruit that area pretty good already.

Bambu Wrote:That last game ( the DWash free throw game) was in Memphis and on CBS.
I think it might still be the highest rated league championship ever.

ESPN also had their Game Day at the UL/Memphis game that year. Then
there was "Rivalry Week".

Neither program needs MSG for the exposure, and both Cal and Pitino
seem to recruit that area pretty good already.

Not to be a nitpicker, but here are the CBS conference championship game ratings from 2005 (the UL/Memphis game):

http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/news/031405ncaab

Clearly, it wasn't the highest rated league championship ever, as it wasn't even the highest rated league championship that season.

Right now Louisville and Memphis pretty much hand pick who they want from NYC. Every player from the Big Apple mentions either the Tigers or Cardinals, sometimes both in their list of favorites.

A Cardinal / Tiger match-up in MSG would sell-out and would be the sporting event in NYC that night. I doubt anyone else in the Big East could travel 770 miles from home and play a team from 1000 miles away in an OOC game and sell-out an arena like the MSG.
CJ

Frank the Tank Wrote:

Bambu Wrote:That last game ( the DWash free throw game) was in Memphis and on CBS.
I think it might still be the highest rated league championship ever.

ESPN also had their Game Day at the UL/Memphis game that year. Then
there was "Rivalry Week".

Neither program needs MSG for the exposure, and both Cal and Pitino
seem to recruit that area pretty good already.

Not to be a nitpicker, but here are the CBS conference championship game ratings from 2005 (the UL/Memphis game):

http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/news/031405ncaab

Clearly, it wasn't the highest rated league championship ever, as it wasn't even the highest rated league championship that season.

Wow, you're right! If they don't put us in New York, no one will want
to watch.

Last time I checked Memphis left the Metro, and Louisville, to create the Great Midwest with Cinci, Dayton, Marquette, UAB, DePaul, and St. Louis. Memphis wasn't even playing Louisville but was playing Arkansas, Tennessee, and Southern Miss every year in the mid-90's. I checked my Blue Ribbon yearbooks.

Frank the Tank Wrote:

xubrew Wrote:

KnightLight Wrote:

xubrew Wrote:i don't think playing it in nyc would make all that much difference...if any.

I don't think you understand how UL and Memphis would both receive HUGE NATIONAL MEDIA EXPOSURE (even from non-sport outlets) if the game was played in NYC.

Yes...this game would get some nice exposure wherever it plays, but one can multiple it by 5-10 if the game was played in NYC...where Pitino/Calipari are still pretty popular today.

Duke/UNC is basketball tradition...especially with all their recent national titles between them while UL last won a national title in '86...and Memphis, while enjoying a 3 year Elite 8 streak, has never won one.

There is a BIG reason why Calipari/Pitino would prefer to have the game in NYC than say Nashville.

Its ok if you don't understand.

PS. Also probably having the best of the best prep kids from NYC area at the game as well would be a huge recruiting opportunity for both coaches...and they both know it.

i understand it to a point, but it isn't as if it's george washington or davidson or someone like that where the big time media exposure could help them get to some sort of next level. as far as a national audience is concerned, people in alabama or north carolina or texas don't care if the game is played in nyc or not. yes, more media can be there in person, but it isn't as if the game wouldn't make a huge blip on the national media anyway.

i'm not saying that there aren't some benefits to having it in nyc. i'm just saying that both teams are giving up something to get those benefits, and i wonder if it's really worth losing what they're losing to gain what they're gaining. what they're giving up is an electric atmosphere in a sold out 20,000+ seat arena with a crowd split down the middle. games like that tend to make for better television than a preseason nit semifinal game between two non-new york based schools. they're also probably giving up something when it comes to the gate (not that either school really needs it, though). the game means more to the people in kentucky and tennessee than it does to the people in new york city. louisville already plays saint john's and the big east tournament in msg, so it isn't as if this game is exposing them to a new market. they're already there at least once a year anyway on a very big stage.

it looks as though you're a ucf fan. i wonder what louisville and memphis fans fell about this. i'd be willing to bet they'd probably prefer to have it as a home-and-home or in nashville. i don't know what your ties to nyc are or how much of a finger you have on the sports scene of the city, but i don't see a louisville vs memphis game being something that takes the nyc sports world by storm the same way it would take the nashville area by storm. i know pitino and calipari were once coaches in that area, but that was a long time ago.

I think that the comparison with the Preseason NIT is right on the money - that tournament typically features very good or even great match-ups on par with Louisville-Memphis, but there's not really any residual buzz or extra media attention just because the games are at MSG. The Coaches vs. Cancer finals and Jimmy V Classic also usually feature top-level teams at MSG but the arena is rarely even close to full (much less electric) unless Duke, Syracuse or UConn are involved. It's fool's gold to think that renting out MSG for an evening is going to create some type of national or NYC media hype for two teams that have very little connection to New York in terms of their fan bases (regardless of the East Coast roots of their coaches). Now, if Louisville or Memphis were able to get a game with Duke at MSG, on the other hand, then you'd get some extra attention. As suggested by others, Louisville-Memphis should really be home-and-home or at a southern neutral site such as Nashville.

If you would have said North Carolina, i might had believe what you said. No body is buying Duke since Williams showed up.

Ah the days....

Louisville - River City Red

Memphis - River City Blue

Memphis 24 Louisville 0 Basketball First 10 min of the half - Can't remember the year though.

Memphis 69 Louisville 19 Football Corso standing on the bench in the 4th qtr waving a white towel

There are a lot of great rivalries - But,...when the Cardinals and Tigers face off - there is spectacular potential.

Ah the days.....

esayem Wrote:Last time I checked Memphis left the Metro, and Louisville, to create the Great Midwest with Cinci, Dayton, Marquette, UAB, DePaul, and St. Louis. Memphis wasn't even playing Louisville but was playing Arkansas, Tennessee, and Southern Miss every year in the mid-90's. I checked my Blue Ribbon yearbooks.

your point??

"Memphis 24 Louisville 0 Basketball First 10 min of the half - Can't remember the year though."

this will be hard for UL fans to watch...but remember, UL came back and we had to eek-out a close win in Freedom Hall...Louisville was ranked #8 at the time.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...DuAQ&hl=en

Go Tigers!!!
Drew

CardinalJim Wrote:A Louisville / Memphis match-up is NEVER lame. Pitino and Cal could agree to meet on the moon and the fans would pack the place. MSG is one of the few arenas outside of Louisville or Memphis that is good enough to host such a clash.
Outside of Cincinnati fans no one else in the Big East understands the Louisville / Memphis rivalry. There is nothing in the Big East that can touch it.
CJ

-- Wow, let me provide you with some info before you go and make crazy statments like that...

A) The UL/memphis basketball rivarly stated in 1949....and since then they have played 80 times with UL holding a 48-32 edge

West Virginia and Pitt have been playing basketball since 1904. In fact, WVUs first bball game ever was against Pitt. Since then, the two schools have played 175 times with WVU holding a 93-82 edge

B) UL and Memphis have started playing football in 1948, and since then have played somewhere in the neighborhood of 38 times give or take a meeting.

Pitt and WVU have been playing football since the early 1900s...and next years Backyard Brawl will be the 101st meeting between the schools

-- That combined with the success the two programs have had in football and basketball, plus the fact that they are less then 100 miles apart so the fans see each other all the time, plus the fact that they recruit the same area so the players in the games have likely been playing one another all there live...its a no contest. No doubt the UL/Memphis game is great, but it doesn't have near the history or a fraction of the intensity that Pitt/WVU has

I feeling admit that I don't fully understand the UL and UM games, but I would suggest you need to more fully understand the history of the conference your school belongs to...IMO the Big East has several rivalries that are bigger/more important nationally

Jackson

xubrew Wrote:

esayem Wrote:Last time I checked Memphis left the Metro, and Louisville, to create the Great Midwest with Cinci, Dayton, Marquette, UAB, DePaul, and St. Louis. Memphis wasn't even playing Louisville but was playing Arkansas, Tennessee, and Southern Miss every year in the mid-90's. I checked my Blue Ribbon yearbooks.

your point??

2 points, rather facts if you will.

1-Somebody said the Metro broke up, which was not true. Some schools left and eventually merged back to create the CUSA.

2-The Louisville/Memphis rivalry was not kept on a year to year basis when the schools were in different conferences in the past.