I'm going to rent the movie Crash. I think it will have a better meaning to me now.

It seems like a re-view of that movie might give you a better understanding. But, I agree with you. Its a very educated opinion to have; to look past the race of someone and into their situation to determine why they act how they do. Its a nurture v. nature issue in a sense.

Nothing is black and white (analogy seems appropriate) anymore. Everything is dependent upon underlying circumstances. Whether it be caused by welfare, indoctrination, or sense of entitlement, its more than that.

I do feel that if there were ambition or a sense of pride or self worth in these individuals, these problems wouldn't exist.

I thought about that too. Someone has to teach you those things of self worth and pride. I know I am the man I am today because of the lessons of my father, My little league coaches, My teachers and coaches in school, and Farmer Gwinn and Farmer Dean. I remember bailing hay for 2 bucks an hour. At the end of a ten hour day, when you were given that twenty bucks, it WAS ALL the money in the world. Working in the barn and then a year in graduating to the trailer where it was only 90 degrees and you got the breeze too. My best buddy peeing on an electric fence. Laughin so damn hard the bails were piling up. Those life lessons... I was bathed in a positive learning environment and STILL found ways of getting into trouble. Sometimes I look back on some of the stuff we did as teenagers and just blush and I had a priviledged Midwestern upbringing. Learned the value of a dollar and a hard's day work. These kid's in the inner city know nothing of that.

Unfortunately, in life and politics, everybody claims to want the Straight Talk Express. Except when people talk in straightforward ways, they are called racist, alarmist, etc.

The sentiments of the first post are mirrored by many, but acknowledged by few.

I live in the proverbial multicultural city. My neighbor was recently threatened by a black kid because the kid felt my neighbor waved his hose at him. That's right, some punk teen disrespected by a 62 yr old retired mechanic watering his lawn. Some punk kid from 10 blocks north, with no job, wandering the streets. Who knows what he was doing, but there is nothing down by us to attract a kid of any stripe. All in all that is not a big deal, because nothing happened, but as the kid left, he looked back and said "I know where you live."

We are mostly younger families with kids, families headed by contractors, white collars, blue collars, a reporter for the local paper, some retirees, business owners, and strangly enough the head of medicine for a local hospital. One of my other neighbors kids wandered away from home, and EVERY adult on the block at home at the time got in their car and searched along with the police. We are an honest cross section of America.

Now some of us guys probably have a little too much bravodicio, in light of this recent threat, but I'll be damned if some black kid and his friends from 10 blocks north come marching into our neighborhood to harrass an old man. Many of us have ways to protect ourselves and our neighbors, but we know there are other, maybe better ways, to address this and other small quality of life issues. So we asked the police to make a show of patrol, and if you can believe this, they said no. The damn MPLS police said they wouldn't patrol with any more regularity because of the high price of gas. They are required to park and idle if not on a call.

Unfreakin believeable.

I am a heart patient and because of that I walk every day, rain or shine. When I'm on those walks as I encounter white and Hispanic people they almost always say hello to me and I to them. When I see a black person the odds are less than 50-50 he'll even acknowlege me by making eye contact. The odds are even lower that he'll respond to my saying hello. The Hispanics will often move to one side of the sidewalk so we pass without colliding. Many times black people won't budge, forcing me to walk on someone's lawn or something.

It seems to me, based on my experiences here in So Cal, that most Hispanics are happy to be here and that many black folks have a chip on their shoulder and are angry. How they got that way is a question I can't answer; maybe Rev Jackson can. But that's just my opinion......... based on almost 20 years of daily observation.

We do need to have a serious discussion about race. When Jesse Jackson says something about Obama talkin down to Niggas when Obama talks about personal responsibility there is OBVIOUSLY a disconnect somewhere. If anything Jesse probably helped Obama with white America. You know I always thought that saying "Never judge a man til you've walked a mile in his moccasins" was fitting. Who knows how you would have turned out if you were raised in the ghetto. Would you turn to crime if you were poor? I can understand their plight but they need to look in the mirror.

Mach... I too am still praying for your daughter and your family.

As to your post... at the risk of being politically correct... It (theft) really is about class and not race. I'll be politically incorrect and make a generalization, knowing full well that many poor are VERY hard working and upwardly mobile)... The poor are frequently taught (as much by the Klan as Al Sharpton etc) that wealthy people (which to them, means anyone with something THEY want) don't deserve what they have. That they didn't earn it... their daddy got it for them... which makes it okay to take it from them, or destroy it. We certainly heard that ad nauseum about Bush 43... but nobody ever said it about Ted Kennedy... The democrats obviously fuel this notion as does hollywood. There are MANY more movies where the poor kid is noble, and the rich kid is the jerk... Even down to Superman and Spiderman.... Batman is about the only one where the rich guy is the hero... FORGET all of the Molly Ringwald movies... This shows itself in the "I'm doing my job... I put the burger in the bag, didn't I" part of society. It is amazing how frequently a simple order is screwed up... I know he asked for no tomoatoes, but this one is already made... and I'm working for $6/hr while he's just driving around with his family... so I'll get him because he doesn't deserve it.... oblivious to WHY you're driving around with your family.

THE SYSTEM is the problem. 69's description is exactly right on, and MANY of them know the game VERY well. These are smart people, and we as a society are turning them into scam artists rather than productive contributors to society. Stupid generally equals poor in my mind (at least poorer) and you see stupid on Jerry Springer every day... I'm not talking about the stupid people... somewhere along the lines, we have convinced a moderately intelligent section of the population that it is better to do nothing, wasting your value to society (by providing a service) because they can do nothing, and bring home $1500... then scam or steal or deal for an extra $1000/month "working" a total of about 6 hours a week... while a job that paid him $2500/mo would involve 200 hours a month, and perhaps starting at $6/hr (.

The Democrats argue that if we continue to raise the minimum wage, then we will eventually get it to the point where people will prefer minimum wage to welfare... but at the same time, they're voting to raise welfare... and honestly, until you get to where the minimum wage is $2500/month (roughly $15/hour for a 40 hour week) and it can be earned in just a few hours... Welfare to work will not happen for those who are CHOOSING to be on welfare. Before you scoff at those numbers, consider the cost of insurance etc.

Besides... and I continue to hear this comment...

SINCE WHEN ARE PEOPLE SUPPOSED TO "LIVE" on MINIMUM WAGE!! We are telling employers that they have to pay someone with zero skills enough to "live" on. Give me a break. If you have no skills, you're supposed to be living at home, or with roomates. Riding a bike, motorcycle, public transportation or sharing a car. One person can't live on their own (much less support a family) on $15k/year, but 2 people can live on 30k, and 4 people can live on 60k. We're talking about the MINIMUM wage... Somebody tell me how 4 men from Guatamala can afford to come to America and not only earn enough at $5/hr to feed, clothe and house themselves, but send enough money home to care for their family, frequently including their parents... while an American with competitive skills needs 3 times the money just to "live"??

The idea that people with "things" don't deserve them is the problem. The OTHER kids at the hospital didn't need that game at the hospital as much as Cameron was convinced he did at home... and since breaking it didn't change HIS situation... he had no problem doing it. Clearly, the hospital had money. Kayden didn't need to play it as much as Cameron did...

The BK guy was OBVIOUSLY working too hard to see that you actually got what you paid for... or that you were served at all. I'm only making $6/hr, and don't want to be here... so YOU can wait while I bring my friend their check. THEY"RE here to get paid... you're just waiting for a stupid sandwich.

As for the WalMart situation... strange situation... obviously stressed... you were wrong... but having been wronged yourself so many times... you simply expected it... It didn't matter what color the guy was... you'd been wronged all day, and now your phone was gone and the guy goes in the exact same stall... I'm glad you didn't actually do anything. You'd have been a racist, not just someone under stress who'd been screwed all day long and "expected' that you were being screwed again... not only that, but "Coolio" probably would have just had what he's always been told about white people confirmed.

Eddie Murphy did a skit on SNL about how white people treat eachother, and how they treat blacks... It was very funny... He also poked a lot of fun at blacks in his career... anyone remember the "talking car"?? "Lights are on"... and it's funny... making fun of Italians in the Rocky movie... but turn it around, and there's a problem. Why??

smn1256 Wrote:Many times black people won't budge, forcing me to walk on someone's lawn or something.

+1

Another Thing....................

Whose bright idea was it for low income housing. Hey I got a great idea! Why don't we stack a hundred apartments on top of each other, clear out this whole city block and put people in there who can't afford to live anywhere else. That's got to be great for the local govt. heh. Spruce up the neighborhood!

Who in their right freakin mind would accept this?

Mach:

The welfare mentality isn't just confined to the urban black community. I grew up in rural Appalachia and witnessed first hand the welfare mentality and the passing on from generation to generation of "working the system". The folks I witnessed were 99% poor whites that sold the food stamps at a discount to provide cash for cigs & beer, etc.

I remember my mom coming home, she taught 4th grade, and telling about how a kid in her class would state that "Mommy is getting a raise" because mommy had popped out another kid. I taught in a school system that had more than 50% of the student body receiving government assistance of some kind that had a "shower club" because so many kids would come to school smelling like sour milk or worse.

One large difference, however, is the violence. In rural areas there seems to be much less violent behavior, but it seems that there is just way more violence in big cities by all groups. Less thievery as well, but I'm not sure if this is because there are just less people and the percentages are similar or if there is actually less stealing.

The real thing that scares me though is this........with so much of the manufacturing base leaving this country, where are all these uneducated (many just stupid) folks going to get a job that at least puts them in the lower middle class? It's real easy to say that education is the way, and for many it is, but there is just no way that 75% - 80% of fols in this country are college material. My guess would be probably be 30 - 35% tops. That leaves 65 - 70% that need jobs that can at least get them to "paying taxes" level. The smaller the % paying taxes and adding to society means that the rest of us will continue to pay more & more.

I recommend reading Freakanomics for a statistical overview on race. It's pretty interesting how race has little to nothing to do with a person's station in life.

I work in the ER at one of the largest hospitals in the country, so I see a whole lot of these welfare bums. If anything would make you vote against universal healthcare, welfare, or any other handout program, it's working in the ER. People don't take care of themselves, but instead rely on the government to do it for them.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=buri...your-brain
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-political-brain

Unfortunately, we are all prejudiced (even Stephen Colbert, who doesn't think he sees color). Our brains are hardwired to think inductively and to find patterns, sometimes even when no pattern exists. We also have a tendency to overemphasize information which agrees with our preconceived notions while ignoring or reinterpreting information which runs counter to our existing beliefs.

Prejudice isn't necessarily bad. It's the judging of a situation by using past experience as a guide and it's an inescapable fact of life. In many situations it serves us well. The problem comes in when the preconceived notions overwhelm the particulars of a situation or we refuse to allow our prejudices to be modified by new experiences.

I hope I have been clear enough. I KNOW ITS NOT RACE! It's your social economic status. Problem.... you have entire city swaths chuck full of one type of socio economic status. MY EYES HAVE BEEN OPENED ! This has been a life changing experience. I have never witnessed a "project". I drove by one yesterday. It's bigger than the town of 2000 I grew up in. Just rows and rows of brick apartment buildings. It's right by East Cleveland Tech High School. (I believe Jesse Owens went to school there). You talk about a scary part of town. People have this zombie like look in their eyes. I was watching MSNBC last night. They had this video vigilante and he was taping prostitutes in Oklahoma City. Oklahoma City looked pretty rough in that video.

I wish you guys could visit me for a weekend. I would take you on a field trip. We probaly would need some of WMD's Scar L's though if we went at night. It's a section of society I knew existed but didn't understand.