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NCAAbbs Straw Poll - July
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TomorrowHerd Offline
Protecting the Northern Flank
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Post: #61
RE: NCAAbbs Straw Poll - July
Seven Principles of the Constitution Party are:

1. Life: For all human beings, from conception to natural death;
2. Liberty: Freedom of conscience and actions for the self-governed individual;
3. Family: One husband and one wife with their children as divinely instituted;
4. Property: Each individual's right to own and steward personal property without government burden;
5. Constitution: and Bill of Rights interpreted according to the actual intent of the Founding Fathers;
6. States' Rights: Everything not specifically delegated by the Constitution to the federal government is reserved for the state and local jurisdictions;
7. American Sovereignty: American government committed to the protection of the borders, trade, and common defense of Americans, and not entangled in foreign alliances.
07-19-2008 09:38 AM
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tigertom Offline
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Post: #62
RE: NCAAbbs Straw Poll - July
Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:
Brookes Owl Wrote:Of course, to Hambone's point, I'm in California and it's likely to be a big Obama state, making my vote irrelevant.

Actually, it probably means that the only relevant vote you could cast would be one for Barr. A vote for Obama or McCain won't change anything, but the more votes Barr gets, the easier it will be to sell libertarian ideas in the future.
It's time for this again. Perhaps you have not seen it, but it's a pretty clear presentation on why "Party still trumps person".

"Rosen: Party still trumps person
August 13, 2004

With just 80 days to go before the election, it's time for my quadrennial column on party vs. person. I've been offering and updating this polemic for more than 20 years. For veteran voters, this may be review; for rookies, perhaps, a new concept.

A time-honored cliche heard every election year goes something like this: "I'm an independent thinker; I vote the person, not the party." This pronouncement is supposed to demonstrate open-mindedness and political sophistication on the part of the pronouncer. It's your vote, cast it any way you like - or not at all. But idealism and naivete about the way our electoral process and system of government works shouldn't be mistaken for wisdom or savvy.

For better or worse, we have a two-party system. And party trumps person. Either a Republican, George W. Bush, or a Democrat, John Kerry, is going to be elected president in November. No one else has a chance.
Not Ralph Nader, not the Libertarian candidate, nor the Communist, nor the Green. Minor party candidates are sometimes spoilers - like Nader costing Gore the presidency in 2000 - but they don't win presidential elections. Ross Perot got 20 million popular votes in 1992, and exactly zero Electoral College votes.

In Europe's multiparty, parliamentary democracies, governing coalitions are formed after an election. In our constitutional republic, the coalitions are formed first.

The Republican coalition includes, for the most part, middle- and upper-income taxpayers (but not leftist Hollywood millionaires and George Soros), individualists who prefer limited government, pro-market and pro-business forces, believers in American exceptionalism and a strong national defense, social-issues conservatives and supporters of traditional American values.

The Democratic coalition is an alliance of collectivists, labor unions (especially the teachers' unions), government workers, academics, plaintiffs-lawyers, lower- and middle-income net tax-receivers, most minorities, feminists, gays, enviros, and activists for various anti-capitalist, anti-business, anti-military, anti-gun, one-world causes.
I say party trumps person because regardless of the individual occupying the White House, the coalition will be served.

A Democratic president, whether a liberal or a moderate (conservative Democrats, if any still exist, can't survive the nominating process), can operate only within the political boundaries of his party and its coalition. The party that wins the presidency gets to staff all the discretionary positions in the executive and judicial branches of government. Members of its coalition are awarded vital policy-making government jobs, judgeships, ambassadorships and appointments to boards and commissions, as well as a host of plum jobs handed out to those who have political IOUs to cash in.

A vote for Bush is a vote for the Republican agenda and conservative players in key posts. A vote for Kerry is a vote for the influence of the National Education Association, the National Organization for Women, the American Civil Liberties Union and the likes of Al Sharpton and Michael Moore.

The legislative branch is no different. After the individual members of a new Congress have been seated, a figurative nose count is taken and the party with the most noses wins. That victory carries with it control of all committee and subcommittee chairmanships, the locus of legislative power.

Now, let's say you're a registered Republican voter who clearly prefers the Republican philosophy of governance. And you're a good-natured, well-intentioned person who happens to like an individual Democrat, a Senate candidate, who's somewhat conservative. You decide to cross party lines and vote for him.

As it turns out, he wins, beating a Republican and giving the Democrats a one-vote majority, 51-49, in the U.S. Senate.
Congratulations! You just got Ted Kennedy, Patrick Leahy, Dianne Feinstein and Hillary Clinton as key committee chairs, and a guarantee that your Republican legislative agenda will be stymied.

That's the way the process works. Does this mean that in a two-party system like ours it comes down to choosing between the lesser of two evils? You bet it does. That's not to say that either party is really "evil," that's just an expression.

If we had 280 million custom-tailored minor parties, everyone could find his perfect match. But that's not practical.

You can be a purist and cast your vote symbolically with a boutique party, or be a player and settle for the least imperfect of the Republican or Democrat alternatives. Your vote, your choice.

Mike Rosen's radio show airs daily from 9 a.m. to noon on 850 KOA.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Incidentally, give the 850 KOA show a try. It's a take no prisoners time!
07-19-2008 09:44 AM
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jh Offline
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Post: #63
RE: NCAAbbs Straw Poll - July
TomorrowHerd Wrote:Seven Principles of the Constitution Party are:

1. Life: For all human beings, from conception to natural death;
2. Liberty: Freedom of conscience and actions for the self-governed individual;
3. Family: One husband and one wife with their children as divinely instituted;
4. Property: Each individual's right to own and steward personal property without government burden;
5. Constitution: and Bill of Rights interpreted according to the actual intent of the Founding Fathers;
6. States' Rights: Everything not specifically delegated by the Constitution to the federal government is reserved for the state and local jurisdictions;
7. American Sovereignty: American government committed to the protection of the borders, trade, and common defense of Americans, and not entangled in foreign alliances.

Just going off the principles in this list, the differences with the Libertarians would be on 1 (no official stance on abortion but want to keep the federal government out of it and pro-euthanasia), 3 (opposed to discrimination against gays in family matters), possibly 5 (not necessarily the principle but based on their marriage stance I'm sure some of the actual interpretations will differ), and possibly 6 (they seem to forget the "or the people" part of the clause, but that might very well be parsing things too much).
07-19-2008 10:09 AM
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Sophandros Offline
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Post: #64
RE: NCAAbbs Straw Poll - July
I hope all of you wingnuts vote for Barr so that McCain gets fewer votes here in Georgia so that it becomes a Blue state.

It's so funny watching otherwise intelligent people do stupid things.
07-20-2008 10:22 AM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #65
RE: NCAAbbs Straw Poll - July
Sophandros Wrote:I hope all of you wingnuts vote for Barr so that McCain gets fewer votes here in Georgia so that it becomes a Blue state.

It's so funny watching otherwise intelligent people do stupid things.

Wow, that's some top notch condescension right there Soph. Am I a wingnut because I agree with Barr or because I'm "throwing my vote away?" As far as I'm concerned, both Obama and McCain are mediocre to poor choices, in different directions. If I was a Reagan republican voting for Barr as a protest, I'd agree with your point. But I'm not, so I think your analysis lacks depth.
07-20-2008 12:33 PM
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Essency Offline
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Post: #66
RE: NCAAbbs Straw Poll - July
Sophandros Wrote:I hope all of you wingnuts vote for Barr so that McCain gets fewer votes here in Georgia so that it becomes a Blue state.

Sorry, don't live in Georgia. 03-wink
07-20-2008 01:37 PM
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ETSUfan1 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: NCAAbbs Straw Poll - July
What exactly makes Barr supporters "wingnuts"?

My guess is that you will have nothing reasonable to say on the topic.
(This post was last modified: 07-20-2008 02:58 PM by ETSUfan1.)
07-20-2008 02:58 PM
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